BRIGGS wrote:You have to be kidding me

Is there an active 6-10 guy like this available in free agency?

Why did MDA not play him 20 games in a row for 25 minutes a night to see what we mightve had--he really should be fired. MDA is NOt NY basketball

Pharzeone wrote:It is really starting to hurt being a Knick fan. I mean watching that clip of Hill really hurts. This coach is a joke and Walsh is so far up MDA's ass he doesn't even know what's going on in the real world.

Its really starting to hurt? You have been longer than this to know you have to be a masochist to be a Knicks fan. We always make terrible trades, give up valuable picks that later turn into good players. We somehow find a way to sign respected coaches only to see them turn to the darkside while in NY and suddenly make more headlines with the drama outside the basketball court. We find GMs that give up the whole house and then some to make a trade happen.

Really, what's new? Many here knew Jordan Hill only needed a chance, the same we know Douglas needs. Now he will probably become a solid big man, something you always need to have, but for another team while we overpay for Camby. Nice.

Knicksfan wrote:Cosmic, you know that if it was Hill for a chance at Bosh, thats a no-brainer. But when you sum up everything we gave up for that chance at Lebron and Bosh, when nothing is written and if the plan fails we are left extremely empty-handed, things are different. Lebron and Bosh stay put and suddenly this trade will be another horrible one for the Knicks.

It is already a horrible trade. WAlsh never should have let it come down to the wire and we would have been able to avoid getting screwed at the trade deadline.

Knicksfan wrote:Cosmic, you know that if it was Hill for a chance at Bosh, thats a no-brainer. But when you sum up everything we gave up for that chance at Lebron and Bosh, when nothing is written and if the plan fails we are left extremely empty-handed, things are different. Lebron and Bosh stay put and suddenly this trade will be another horrible one for the Knicks.

Jordan Hill should have played all year as should have Toney Douglas. I've felt that way all along.

But neither is a true difference maker. If we strike out in 2010 I won't say to myself "Damn, if only we kept Jordan Hill everything would have been alright!"

For it wouldn't have been. He's not a good player. He's definitely no star to be. So to be honest I view him as a Butler, Sweetney, Wilcox, Randolph Morris type. We tried him out, he wasn't any good, and we moved on.

However, IF 2010 works? Then dumping Hill's 2.7M salary will end up being a part of that.

So you take the chance, and, we didn't just let go the next Tim Duncan or anything you know? Would have been nice to see the kid play but he isn't a difference maker. He isn't a franchise player. He's a bench guy. So I don't understand why so many are upset he's gone. I just don't. We didn't give up a star. We gave up a bench player. Maybe someday he's Kurt Thomas at his peak.

So what? So what.

He still should have played though. Yet if he did we'd still be a 20 win disaster. Not some 40 win playoff bound menace. Jordan Hill isn't changing anything one way or another. Dime a dozen and we have our eyes on franchise players....not backup PFs who may or may not even be in the league a few years down the road.

Markji wrote:It's times like this that I wish we had Isiah ....uh NO!
Layden .... Uh, NO!

When was the last time we had someone in management who did something well? Probably the Spree trade.

When we get LeBron, we will forget how bad this trade was because LeBron will single-handedly win 5 Championships for us??? Just poorly executed management and coaching.

Ok, so I read this post. And I do like reading your posts and POV.

But now I have to ask. What did you/do you envision Jordan Hill doing in the NBA?

12/8?
20/10/2 blocks?
Sweetney?
Duncan?

I mean, what do you see? (And everyone that's so irate over dropping this guy).

Franchise building block?
15 min per night 9th man?

What do you see?

...it's an honest question.

Was the Jeffries trade excessive? Yes, it was. To drop 10M in salary you give up your 8th pick from a previous draft (which, btw, I still maintain we essentially used Hill - to get rid of Hill [2.7M]), the 2011 swap, that's fine, but the 2012 pick is the one that was too much.

Regardless what I try to do is look at the entire body of work. The entire 2 year tear down of the roster.

What did we give up to drop 100M in salary?

Mardy Collins, Jordan Hill, 2011 swap, 2012 pick.

When you think of it that way, and you ask yourself "What would I do to have a shot at 2 of LeBron, Amare, Wade, Bosh, JJ, Boozer, etc?" - if someone said that's all it would cost?

There isn't a single fan on this or any forum that wouldn't give up what we gave up to have that shot.

To me, that's the bottom line. What did I give up in TOTAL to get rid of all that trash? In the end, not much. You look at the single trade and yes it WAS excessive. But you look at the entire body of work? Quite a fair price in the end.

And that's the point: THE BODY OF WORK.

The whole thing.

Now, let's see what they do with it... the flexibility. Let's see what happens over the next 2 years. Before we go nuts.

Jordan Hill. Jordan freakin Hill. Knick fans are robbing banks, punching out their girlfriends, throwing old ladies down stairs, and burning down fast food restaurants over Jordan Hill? Really? JORDAN HILL!?!?!?!?

Good LORD have we fallen or what this decade. Jordan freakin Hill. If I shake my head any more it's going to fly off through my wall and kill a next door neighbor.

Jordan Hill. Roberson. Morris. Sweetney. Butler. Yeah, they all have something in common. Some random Knick fan butters them up as a franchise building block and tries to murder everyone who disagrees.

Talk about the strange and bizarre.

Jordan Hill. LMFAO. As if we had only played him we'd have 50 wins or something. We wouldn't even have 21 for crying out loud. Dude's a hack.

Charles Oakley was replaced with Kurt Thomas eventually. Oakley made Thomas look like TRASH. Agree?

Kurt Thomas would bend Hill over his knee and spank him like a child.

...that's what we're dealing with here. Jordan Hill.

Okay, I'm done ranting on the topic. Long live JordanDuncanKareemKevinGarnettWiltChamberlainShaqEwingMaloneHill.

Cosmic wrote:

Markji wrote:It's times like this that I wish we had Isiah ....uh NO!
Layden .... Uh, NO!

When was the last time we had someone in management who did something well? Probably the Spree trade.

When we get LeBron, we will forget how bad this trade was because LeBron will single-handedly win 5 Championships for us??? Just poorly executed management and coaching.

Ok, so I read this post. And I do like reading your posts and POV.

But now I have to ask. What did you/do you envision Jordan Hill doing in the NBA?

12/8?
20/10/2 blocks?
Sweetney?
Duncan?

I mean, what do you see? (And everyone that's so irate over dropping this guy).

Franchise building block?
15 min per night 9th man?

What do you see?

...it's an honest question.

Was the Jeffries trade excessive? Yes, it was. To drop 10M in salary you give up your 8th pick from a previous draft (which, btw, I still maintain we essentially used Hill - to get rid of Hill [2.7M]), the 2011 swap, that's fine, but the 2012 pick is the one that was too much.

Regardless what I try to do is look at the entire body of work. The entire 2 year tear down of the roster.

What did we give up to drop 100M in salary?

Mardy Collins, Jordan Hill, 2011 swap, 2012 pick.

When you think of it that way, and you ask yourself "What would I do to have a shot at 2 of LeBron, Amare, Wade, Bosh, JJ, Boozer, etc?" - if someone said that's all it would cost?

There isn't a single fan on this or any forum that wouldn't give up what we gave up to have that shot.

To me, that's the bottom line. What did I give up in TOTAL to get rid of all that trash? In the end, not much. You look at the single trade and yes it WAS excessive. But you look at the entire body of work? Quite a fair price in the end.

And that's the point: THE BODY OF WORK.

The whole thing.

Now, let's see what they do with it... the flexibility. Let's see what happens over the next 2 years. Before we go nuts.

Jordan Hill. Jordan freakin Hill. Knick fans are robbing banks, punching out their girlfriends, throwing old ladies down stairs, and burning down fast food restaurants over Jordan Hill? Really? JORDAN HILL!?!?!?!?

Good LORD have we fallen or what this decade. Jordan freakin Hill. If I shake my head any more it's going to fly off through my wall and kill a next door neighbor.

Jordan Hill. Roberson. Morris. Sweetney. Butler. Yeah, they all have something in common. Some random Knick fan butters them up as a franchise building block and tries to murder everyone who disagrees.

Talk about the strange and bizarre.

Jordan Hill. LMFAO. As if we had only played him we'd have 50 wins or something. We wouldn't even have 21 for crying out loud. Dude's a hack.

Charles Oakley was replaced with Kurt Thomas eventually. Oakley made Thomas look like TRASH. Agree?

Kurt Thomas would bend Hill over his knee and spank him like a child.

...that's what we're dealing with here. Jordan Hill.

Okay, I'm done ranting on the topic. Long live JordanDuncanKareemKevinGarnettWiltChamberlainShaqEwingMaloneHill.

Cosmic--when you watch that video--does he look like a guy who could possibly be pretty darn good one day? He looks big athletic he's got good body control touch active looks like he knows how to play --how does someone come to conclusion this guy scks before he is given a chance? I mean watch the tape

The real problem is the last 8 years of losing have been a waste. We have Gallo and Chandler to show for it. Lee also, but he's going to cost money. Now Walsh has a ton of cap space and flexibility and if he cant get Lebron, Bosh, Amare, etc to bolt there is tremendous pressure to field a good team.

iSergio wrote:Crying over Jordan Hill makes no sense. We really won't know the outcome of this trade UNTIL the end of the upcoming offseason. And either way, Hill is not the type of player that will make us regret trading him. Bigs like him are a dime a dozen. Hill's nothing special. If he REALLY works hard, he can become a poor man's Brian Grant/Udonis Haslem. Big freaking deal.

if they played hill from the beginning of the year, and he gave the knicks a quality 15-20 mins a night once january rolled around, then maybe walsh doesn't have to give up those picks in the deal to houston.