nixluva wrote:KT in his time in PHX took 1 3pt'er
Amare in his time under MDA took 56 3's in 299 games played
Diaw took 116 in 236 games played

I think MDA is more than happy to play a big if he's productive and helps the team win regardless of how many 3's he takes. It's so overstated how MDA actually coaches talent he has. He's not the guy that the media tries to make him out to be. Camby or any big we get would be able to find a niche even if they don't shoot from 3. Now i'm sure he'd love a guy that could, but he's had guys that didn't.

The only fault I have with that theory is that he had Z-Bo shooting 3 pointers and in Phoenix wanted to push Hunter further and further out. He had Lee work on his jumper which worked out. I don't mind him getting guys to develop their offense but he should focus more on them developing their defense. Man I can't imagine if he had his hands on Frye. How ironic that Frye is the type of big man that MDA craves.

Pharzeone wrote:

TMS wrote:he tried to address it while staying w/the 2010 plan by trading for Darko... given he's not on Camby's level but at least he tried to address it... MDA never played the guy... what can a GM do if his head coach refuses to use the players he trades for & drafts (other than Gallo that is, who MDA pined for from the very beginning) - well, aside from firing him & hiring another head coach that is, which i'd be fine with at this point if it means we'd hire a coach w/a defensive mindset.

That's my point. It doesn't matter about getting Camby if the guy is not going to play because the coach doesn't like him on offense. Walsh brought in guys from the D-League that were shotblockers but how much time did they get? Is Wilcox still on this roster? We can dance around about fixing an issue that was suppose to be fixed but until circumstances or philosophies change it doesn't matter. Walsh wants more defense but he brings in a guy who isn't known to coach that. Donnie is pretty much shooting himself in a foot with some of these acquisitions. You draft a guy that you expect can help you in the post only to watch as he gets no playing time because of his offense is not up to standard. Now you watch a guy sit on the bench because he is known as a defensive player but whose offense isn't up to that same standard. They can talk about being on the same page with this roster but they really aren't.

Donnie needs to be held to task for hiring a head coach that isn't concerned about defense to begin with... the inconsistencies, contradictions & lack of logic behind the moves being made by the people that run this franchise over the past decade is enough to drive even the most diehard Knick fan to rooting for other teams at this point... for once i'd like to see something done around here that made sense & was consistent with a single minded vision & focus on winning a championship... hoping & praying we see all this make sense come July, cuz there's nothing else to hope for at this point... it's just adding unneeded stress to an already stress filled life if we try & analyze the motives & agendas these GM's, head coaches & players have that come & go from this organization.

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Walsh and every other team with the MLE.

we don't have the MLE, but we do have a ton of cap space to use... it will take at least $7-8 mil per to sign Camby IMHO.

Just a technicality, we have the MLE but we will have to waive it to have "cap space". Its similar to renouncing rights to free agents.

Yep it's either MLE or no MLE. MLE means you can only sign said player for slotted salary amount. It can't be combined with any other salary cap space. Almost similar to a First Round Draft pick slated salary hold. Not to mention the cap is going to drop this summer, which means so is the MLE. Players knowing they may have to take a paycut with lower salary cap... definitely don't want to slide into an shrinking exception slot.

Let's think people come on we're smarter than this.

no need to recite the technicalities of the cap, i've read the Coon page just like the rest of you have... Juice, u are making no sense on this topic... you're suggesting that Marcus Camby is using the Knicks to drive up his price... to whom exactly? there are only a certain amount of teams out there that have cap space this summer that extends beyond the MLE... u honestly think the Blazers are going to break the bank to hold onto him this summer using his Bird Rights when they have Greg Oden & Joel Pryzbilla already on their books longterm & slated to return next season to their rotation? use your head... Camby is there as a stopgap filler for this season to help w/their run at the playoffs... the guy is 36 years old, no team is going to sign him to a big money deal... the Knicks will no longer be under the limitation of recent past seasons because this summer they'll be looking to take on longterm deals for a change... Dolan wants playoffs in 2010, bet on it... Marcus Camby using the Knicks to angle for a bigger contract w/the Blazers makes no sense... if he's angling for a bigger contract, it will be done by his play in the postseason, & that bigger contract could very well come from the Knicks considering how desperate the Knicks' situation will become if we miss out on Lebron James this summer.

Do you honestly think there were other teams in the NBA who were going to give Kidd more than the MLE this past summer? Seriously? There weren't. Possibly Portland as we saw they gave Miller 3yrs/$21mil with a TO on the 4rth yr. No one else in the league was going to give Dre more than MLE. To be honest Miller probably got his deal only because Dallas established his market value by giving Kidd 4yrs/$32mil, with our assistance of course.

Pyrz is an expiring contract come 2010, he's not long term salary stop exaggerating and Oden has had 2 major season ending injuries in back-to-back seasons. Yes they will try to retain Cam as they won't be near the Tax thresh hold. I can easily see the Blazers unloading Joel and a pick/Bayless for a lower salaried player with equal impact at position of need. Or possibly use Camby for S&T purposes to get what they need. His agent and Cam will want to maximize his financial situation as this is his last payday

Camby's agent is trying to pull the same bullchit. He's is basically saying I want my client's wage to stay about where it's at($7.5mil but had incentives built in to reach like $9mil) and I know a team in another conference who'll pay him probably $7-8mil/yr for 3yrs. When the rest of the league might only pay him MLE or slightly above $4-6mil. So he's using us as a threat to get more than what the rest of the teams will be willing to pay him. The only difference he's starting real early instead of waiting until the summer. Stop negotiating a deal through the media while using us.... when the season isn't even over with.

And please tell me we didn't just give away potential 3 picks for a chance at 2 Maxes only to make a strong pursuit for Camby this summer who'll all but ruin it.

I understand you like Cam and we need defense but seriously unless Cam wants to come here for the Vet Min. No Thanks!. The ship has come and sailed on giving Cam premium dollars. I definitely wouldn't want to throw money his way considering the coach we have. Then for you to discuss why the Blazers shouldn't sign him would apply to us considering the dollar difference could be $1-2mil/yr.

Whether it works out for Cam and his agent is another story.

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Walsh and every other team with the MLE.

we don't have the MLE, but we do have a ton of cap space to use... it will take at least $7-8 mil per to sign Camby IMHO.

Just a technicality, we have the MLE but we will have to waive it to have "cap space". Its similar to renouncing rights to free agents.

Yep it's either MLE or no MLE. MLE means you can only sign said player for slotted salary amount. It can't be combined with any other salary cap space. Almost similar to a First Round Draft pick slated salary hold. Not to mention the cap is going to drop this summer, which means so is the MLE. Players knowing they may have to take a paycut with lower salary cap... definitely don't want to slide into an shrinking exception slot.

Let's think people come on we're smarter than this.

no need to recite the technicalities of the cap, i've read the Coon page just like the rest of you have... Juice, u are making no sense on this topic... you're suggesting that Marcus Camby is using the Knicks to drive up his price... to whom exactly? there are only a certain amount of teams out there that have cap space this summer that extends beyond the MLE... u honestly think the Blazers are going to break the bank to hold onto him this summer using his Bird Rights when they have Greg Oden & Joel Pryzbilla already on their books longterm & slated to return next season to their rotation? use your head... Camby is there as a stopgap filler for this season to help w/their run at the playoffs... the guy is 36 years old, no team is going to sign him to a big money deal... the Knicks will no longer be under the limitation of recent past seasons because this summer they'll be looking to take on longterm deals for a change... Dolan wants playoffs in 2010, bet on it... Marcus Camby using the Knicks to angle for a bigger contract w/the Blazers makes no sense... if he's angling for a bigger contract, it will be done by his play in the postseason, & that bigger contract could very well come from the Knicks considering how desperate the Knicks' situation will become if we miss out on Lebron James this summer.

Do you honestly think there were other teams in the NBA who were going to give Kidd more than the MLE this past summer? Seriously? There weren't. Possibly Portland as we saw they gave Miller 3yrs/$21mil with a TO on the 4rth yr. No one else in the league was going to give Dre more than MLE. To be honest Miller probably got his deal only because Dallas established his market value by giving Kidd 4yrs/$32mil.

Pyrz is an expiring contract come 2010, he's not long term salary stop exaggerating and Oden has had 2 major season ending injuries in back-to-back seasons. Yes they will try to retain Cam as they won't be near the Tax thresh hold. I can easily see the Blazers unloading Joel and a pick/Bayless for a lower salaried player with equal impact at position of need. Or possibly use Camby for S&T purposes to get what they need. His agent and Cam will want to maximize his financial situation as this is his last payday

Camby's agent is trying to pull the same bullchit. He's is basically saying I want my client's wage to stay about where it's at($7.5mil but had incentives built in to reach like $9mil) and I know a team in another conference who'll pay him probably $7-8mil/yr for 3yrs. When the rest of the league might only pay him MLE or slightly above $4-6mil. So he's using us as a threat to get more than what the rest of the teams will be willing to pay him. The only difference he's starting real early instead of waiting until the summer. Stop negotiating a deal through the media while using us.... when the season isn't even over with.

And please tell me we didn't just give away potential 3 picks for a chance at 2 Maxes only to make a strong pursuit for Camby this summer who'll all but ruin it.

I understand you like Cam and we need defense but seriously unless Cam wants to come here for the Vet Min. No Thanks!. The ship has come and sailed on giving Cam premium dollars. I definitely wouldn't want to throw money his way considering the coach we have. Then for you to discuss why the Blazers shouldn't sign him would apply to us considering the dollar difference could be $1-2mil/yr.

Whether it works out for Cam and his agent is another story.

this is not about what i would want to do here... it's what i think Donnie Walsh will do if we miss out on the big names this summer... if it were up to me i would have never made that stupid trade for T-Mac to begin with, i would have held onto our picks & Jordan Hill & waited til the summer to work some possible trades using those assets if a top FA spurned us w/the cap space we already had to offer.

obviously Camby's agent is trying to get him more money, what agent doesn't want to do that for their clients? but it don't matter what Camby's agent is trying to do, there won't be many teams willing to give him what he's asking for other than the NY Knicks this summer... capped out contenders can only offer a MLE contract & Camby is going to be worth more per annum... the Blazers won't be bluffed into overpaying to keep him either, he was a stopgap solution from the very beginning anyway... if they work out a S&T it could very well be with the Knicks as a matter of fact for 1 of their second rounders... this isn't want i'm ADVISING we do, it's what i think Donnie will try to do if his vaunted 2010 plan doesn't work out the way he wanted it to.

Add in the crazy GM loon from orlando--who by the way was the only guy who pulled off the two max FA deal[didnt exactly workout for the stooge] who was the WORST draft picker and a retread from Toronto

the Magic got those 2 "max FA's" in sign & trades & had to give up young talent & a future 1st round pick to do it... neither of them was a straight signing & yet people always say the Magic did it, why can't we? well because we don't have any more picks or young talent to give away at this point other than Gallo, Chandler & TD, & those guys were supposed to form part of the "core" that would play alongside whoever we signed to begin with... so what are our options at this point other than hoping we can lure 2 top FA's away from their current teams w/a straight FA offer without having to go through a sign & trade where those same players would stand to make a lot more money by gaining the extra year on their deals, which has never been done before in the history of this sport? if that's what this plan was all about, i would have never advocated Donnie Walsh's hire to begin with... i was always under the impression he wanted to build a team from within & free up cap space to give us options to work trades & signings with in 2010... never knew his 1 & ONLY plan from the start was to get rid of Isiah's garbage by any means necessary even if he had to mortgage the future to do it & pin the entire franchise's hopes in the hands of Lebron James coming here this summer... he seriously better have something agreed upon already with Lebron's people or else i really do think this man needs to be put out to pasture.

BRIGGS wrote:

TMS wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:He'a going to be very shot soon. Look at his numbers since he was traded to Portland--hes been brutal--why exactly would we want a 36 YO going on 37 C who wont play 60 games for us? You dont bet the load on 36 year olds---heck he had no impact in LA hes been nothing in Portland and Denver got better when eh left--and hes 3 years older. Im going to take this as BS. This is not a plan--this is journalistic rhetoric.

Actually when you think about it--it's hysterical. We sck--anyone thinks Camby and Joe Johnson - half the team will produce anything more than 34 wins?

i bet you that's what Donnie's fallback plan is if we miss out on the big names this summer... i don't even have a doubt in my mind that's what he's going to fall back on... & throw D Lee's name into that plan as well.

I think the reality is we have an owner who is the worst in sports history that probably has some input--I mean come on with the flip of the picks--only team to do that was us. I don't think that came from the GM since it's not the first time it has happened but whatever. We hired a GM who was good in his day but his day passed him by and a coach who was not the right fit. Add in the crazy GM loon from orlando--who by the way was the only guy who pulled off the two max FA deal[didnt exactly workout for the stooge] who was the WORST draft picker and a retread from Toronto--think about it--we haev assembled the most idiotic team we could have. You respect D Walsh but he's an advisor at this point at best. the other two Gms and Mike D are TERRIBLE talent evaluators--can we give Marcus Banks 40mm????? or draft reece gaines or Mike Doleac in the lottery?

And people dont get it when I say we should NOT be bailed out by LBJ?

Briggs, None of us love Dolan, but one thing that I do love about him, especially at this time, is that he's not afraid to spend and support his GM. When you have a good GM, that can work out very well us the fans. We've only seen how bad that can be with a bad GM over the last decade. Still I trust DW to be who he is and that's a generally conservative and thoughtful GM. A guy that will look to make sure we're not weak inside and on the boards like we've been. Now that he has the money to actually go get those type of players I think he will.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Juice wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Walsh and every other team with the MLE.

we don't have the MLE, but we do have a ton of cap space to use... it will take at least $7-8 mil per to sign Camby IMHO.

Just a technicality, we have the MLE but we will have to waive it to have "cap space". Its similar to renouncing rights to free agents.

Yep it's either MLE or no MLE. MLE means you can only sign said player for slotted salary amount. It can't be combined with any other salary cap space. Almost similar to a First Round Draft pick slated salary hold. Not to mention the cap is going to drop this summer, which means so is the MLE. Players knowing they may have to take a paycut with lower salary cap... definitely don't want to slide into an shrinking exception slot.

Let's think people come on we're smarter than this.

What are you talking about? Why would any free agent "slide into a shrinking exception slot"? After the July moratorium, it will be clear what the MLE amount is. No free agent will have to "guess" what the amount will be.

You totally misunderstood my point. I suggest review what I stated. MLE is a designated Average Salary Exception amount. The cap will shrink as will the MLE. What Free Agent will want to slide into that income bracket if they feel they are worth more. It's not like Camby can get 5.8mil next year for the MLE, it's going to be less.

Allanfan20 wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

Juice wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Its a good sign. Donnie Walsh did a good job with the Pacers. I remember wondering wtf when he traded Dale and Antonio Davis who did a great job next to Rik Smits. A year and a half later they had Jermaine, Brad Miller and Ron Artest in the front court. There is a good chance he will pull a rabbit out of the hat again over the next year and half. I think we will have a pretty good team in place by midway next season when that Eddy Curry expiring deal will get us some real talent in return. I'm rooting for Donnie, hope he delivers.

No it's not. A good sign to have a player use us like Kidd and Grant Hill did, except getting a head start.

I understand. At this point we are all pessimists. We are doomed, destined to cheer for mediocre or miserable teams for the rest of our lives. Nothing good can happen to us Knick fans.

Until it really does happen. I am going to wait and see. Give them until next season's trade deadline.

We've been saying wait and see the instant Isiah got HIRED. At some point, wait and see has to grow old and we have to judge based on results. If Donnie doesn't do right this Summer, his judgement should be passed instantly. And by do right, I mean get LeBron or Wade. If he gets one of them, then I'd be willing to "wait and see" how he can build a team from that point. If not, I want someone else rebuilding this franchise.

Wade may convince Bosh or Amare to come to Miami? This is more likely to happen than the other way around with us trying to convince Wade to come here with one of those guys. It would seem a bit too much to say that Walsh should be held to that as the standard.

At some point we have to accept that this process may end up with us having to make an improvement, but not to expect the ultimate prize in Free Agency. We could end up with JJ3, Amare & Felton or we could go after Gay. If we can't get Lebron, then it's going to be very tough to get Bosh to come. The only chance we have to get Lebron is for the Cavs to have a bad playoff result. If that happens then we'll have a real good shot

So if we don't get one of the top 5 players then this is a failure?

when u mortgage all the assets to free up cap space the way we did, the simple answer is yes.