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If Mark Jackson was hired as coach in 08
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nixluva
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3/7/2010  10:36 PM
TMS wrote:all i know is, seeing this team play no defense & launching up 3's everytime they touch the basketball is not a system we should be playing right now.

Is that the system? I keep reading people say that this is the system, to run up and down and jack 3's, but that isn't the system at all. There's much more to it than that. Just cuz we haven't seen it run here to it's fullest extent doesn't mean it's just some gimmick offense.

This so called trick offense would produce the highest FG% and Assists per game every year. It can be very efficient and when we finally have some really good players added to the team, it should be run with more of the nuances and options that are missing now.
AUTOADVERT
TMS
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3/7/2010  10:52 PM
BasketballJones wrote:I'd like to see more threads like this. How about "If Avery Johnson was hired coach in 08..." Why stop with Mark Jackson?

i think i already covered that in my previous post.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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3/7/2010  11:08 PM
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:all i know is, seeing this team play no defense & launching up 3's everytime they touch the basketball is not a system we should be playing right now.

Is that the system? I keep reading people say that this is the system, to run up and down and jack 3's, but that isn't the system at all. There's much more to it than that. Just cuz we haven't seen it run here to it's fullest extent doesn't mean it's just some gimmick offense.

This so called trick offense would produce the highest FG% and Assists per game every year. It can be very efficient and when we finally have some really good players added to the team, it should be run with more of the nuances and options that are missing now.

"Seven Seconds or Less" offense is predicated on getting the ball & shooting the ball... how many nuances do u expect to run in the span of 7 seconds? any coach can look like a genius when they have guys like Nash, Amare, Marion, Johnson & Barbosa running their system & hitting their shots... i'd like to see a different mindset not based on a system founded on the notion of getting as many offensive touches in the span of 48 minutes as humanly possible, defense be damned.

i don't even understand what you're objecting about here... are u telling me MDA places a premium on defensive play? i'd like to see more movement without the ball, more backcuts, less wanton chucking of 3 pointers to the tune of 0 for 18 embarassing performances from distance like last night, more focus on defense being implemented, more accountability, more pride being shown by the players & by the coaching staff... i see none of these things under the current regime & have seen none of these things for the past several years... DW & MDA came in here to change the culture & the mindset... in 2 years absolutely nothing has changed other than us clearing some salary off the books... this team still breeds a loser's mentality from ownership all the way down to the players & to the fanbase & places zero value on building a team from within.

we're still engaging in petty internal strife between players & coaches... we're still the laughing stock of the sport in every fans' eyes & have yet to gain a clue as to how to effectively build even a playoff worthy team much less one that can contend for championships... every championship team you can name in the modern era of the sport has built their teams using all 3 avenues of improving their rosters - draft, trades & free agency... we have placed every single egg we have in the free agency basket this summer & entrusted a coach who plays a system that has proven it cannot win championships even with tremendous talent to run the show, & here you are asking me why fans are so disappointed in the way things have gone since Walsh & MDA took over this franchise.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
WindsorPl
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3/8/2010  12:01 AM
TMS wrote:
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:all i know is, seeing this team play no defense & launching up 3's everytime they touch the basketball is not a system we should be playing right now.

Is that the system? I keep reading people say that this is the system, to run up and down and jack 3's, but that isn't the system at all. There's much more to it than that. Just cuz we haven't seen it run here to it's fullest extent doesn't mean it's just some gimmick offense.

This so called trick offense would produce the highest FG% and Assists per game every year. It can be very efficient and when we finally have some really good players added to the team, it should be run with more of the nuances and options that are missing now.

"Seven Seconds or Less" offense is predicated on getting the ball & shooting the ball... how many nuances do u expect to run in the span of 7 seconds? any coach can look like a genius when they have guys like Nash, Amare, Marion, Johnson & Barbosa running their system & hitting their shots... i'd like to see a different mindset not based on a system founded on the notion of getting as many offensive touches in the span of 48 minutes as humanly possible, defense be damned.

i don't even understand what you're objecting about here... are u telling me MDA places a premium on defensive play? i'd like to see more movement without the ball, more backcuts, less wanton chucking of 3 pointers to the tune of 0 for 18 embarassing performances from distance like last night, more focus on defense being implemented, more accountability, more pride being shown by the players & by the coaching staff... i see none of these things under the current regime & have seen none of these things for the past several years... DW & MDA came in here to change the culture & the mindset... in 2 years absolutely nothing has changed other than us clearing some salary off the books... this team still breeds a loser's mentality from ownership all the way down to the players & to the fanbase & places zero value on building a team from within.

we're still engaging in petty internal strife between players & coaches... we're still the laughing stock of the sport in every fans' eyes & have yet to gain a clue as to how to effectively build even a playoff worthy team much less one that can contend for championships... every championship team you can name in the modern era of the sport has built their teams using all 3 avenues of improving their rosters - draft, trades & free agency... we have placed every single egg we have in the free agency basket this summer & entrusted a coach who plays a system that has proven it cannot win championships even with tremendous talent to run the show, & here you are asking me why fans are so disappointed in the way things have gone since Walsh & MDA took over this franchise.

The system may have worked somewhere else, it has not worked here with this roster. The point of this year, I thought, was to show potential FA that the system works to a certain extent and just needs a little help to push it over the playoff hump. Suddenly, the system did not work with this specific team, but will work with a rhetorical team next year.
nixluva
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3/8/2010  12:50 AM
TMS wrote:"Seven Seconds or Less" offense is predicated on getting the ball & shooting the ball... how many nuances do u expect to run in the span of 7 seconds? any coach can look like a genius when they have guys like Nash, Amare, Marion, Johnson & Barbosa running their system & hitting their shots... i'd like to see a different mindset not based on a system founded on the notion of getting as many offensive touches in the span of 48 minutes as humanly possible, defense be damned.

Before MDA introduced the system to Nash and Amare etc, they never played in that exact manner. The basic concept is based on fast decision making and creating advantages that a defense has trouble defending. You'd be surprised how much variation there actually is. Just cuz we haven't had players skilled enough to run it properly doesn't mean that it doesn't have any merits. As I pointed out it can help to produce a highly efficient offense. There are over a hundred plays with additional variations. You can bet that we haven't really seen this team running most of this stuff. Even when they have it's not the same when you don't have a PG who can properly set it up and who can think the game in the right way. A smart PG will make the most of this system and multiple smart players will make it even better. Here's a list of many of the plays. I wish we could show the many diagrams, but that's a bit much. I listed the plays just to make a point. When you think of what this team has been doing you can tell that this much variation hasn't been part of what we've been doing. We already know that MDA really hasn't been running SSOL. He couldn't get these guys to do it.


SEVEN SECONDS OR LESS PLAYS
Drag Break 
1 Bump 
1 Down 
1 Down Roll 
Angle 
Angle Clear  
Angle Option 2  
Handoff  
Clear Fist  
Double Drag  
Drag  
Dribble Drag  
Snap 
Snap Fist  
Get  
Step 3  
Step 4  
Step 5 
1 Pop  
1 Pop Roll 
2 Down  
21 Dribble Drag  
2 Down Bump  
21 Chase  
21 Pinch  
2 Down Pop  
2 Down Roll  
2 Down Roll Reverse  
2 Down  Roll Elbow  
2 Side  
21 Backdoor  
21 Quick 
3 Down  
3 Down Bump  
3 Down Roll 
Roll 34 Hold 
4 POP 
4 Pop Clear 
4 Pop Fist  
4 Side  
4 Side Low  
4 Side Low Option 2 
Fist Up  
Fist Up 2  
Fist Up 4  
Fist Up Dribble  
Fist Up Lift  
Fist Up Middle  
Fist Up Phoenix  
Fist Side  
Fist Side Low  
Fist 24 
Quick  
Quick Curl  
Quick Pinch  
Quick Double  
Quick Power  
Quick Fist  
Quick Wide 
Elbow Quick  
Elbow Quick Option 2  
Elbow Quick Single Screen  
Elbow Quick Double Screen  
Elbow 1  
Elbow 4  
Elbow 5  
Elbow Dive 
Elbow Curl 
Elbow Get 
Elbow Get High Double 
Elbow fist 
Elbow Double Fist 
Elbow Middle 
Elbow Dribble 
Elbow Middle Weak 
Elbow Minnesota
Elbow Side 
Elbow Side hand-off 
Elbow Side Skip
Elbow Strong
Thru
Thru Dive 
Thru Down 
Thru Down Flare  
Thru Dribble 
Thru Dribble Flare 
Thru Fist 
Thru Fist (option)  
Thru High 
Thru Hold 
Thru Low
Thru Opposite 
Thru Quick 
Thru Side 
Thru Stagger 
Thru Weakside
SOB Double 
SOB Fist-up 
SOB Quick 
SOB 5 Up 
SOB Shawn
Blob
Knicksfan
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3/8/2010  7:31 AM
The problem with MDA hasn't been his coaching in general, because we know the team is horrible. But his personality has been poison here in NY. Start by the many players whose value he has completely destroyed to the point we could'nt get anything for them. Marbury, for all the controversy and crazy talk, if he would've handled the situation better we could've actually gotten something for him. Same with Darko, who was never really given a chance. What about Hill now? What's happening to Douglas now? In many ways he has handcuffed Walsh to bad deals for players that later show they had value, just had to get out of NY.

You are assured to be back in 2010 with a different crew but you can actually develop a few of the players that may remain on the team, yet he doesn't do it. I could care less about the rest of his coaching style since the Knicks are not about winning right now. We'll get into the defense when he has run out of excuses with a good team.

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BasketballJones
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3/8/2010  9:23 AM
TMS wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:I'd like to see more threads like this. How about "If Avery Johnson was hired coach in 08..." Why stop with Mark Jackson?

i think i already covered that in my previous post.

Do you really think one measly post does the subject justice? Besides, what about all the other coaches we might have hired? I would really like to see all the hypothetical possibilities thoroughly explored.

https:// It's not so hard.
iSergio
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3/8/2010  9:56 AM
Screw Mark Jackson. We should have hired Scott Skiles. We need a strict disciplinarian who preaches defense, rebounding, unselfish offense with power basketball and an inside and out attack.
franco12
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3/8/2010  10:00 AM
Here is why Mark Jackson would have gotten more out of this squad.

I don't think MDA has really tried. I think he has been lackadaisical in his approach, because he knows he is waiting, like Walsh for 2010.

Mark Jackson wouldn't have been under that same mindset.

He would have been hungry, because he would realized he needed to prove himself.

Crawford and Zach still would have been traded.

We might not have had to sign Duhon, so we might have been in a better position to grab a better player this past draft.

Rookies would have played because they were hungry.

Records would still probably be the same - though I think this year might have been better.
Allanfan20
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3/8/2010  10:10 AM
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:"Seven Seconds or Less" offense is predicated on getting the ball & shooting the ball... how many nuances do u expect to run in the span of 7 seconds? any coach can look like a genius when they have guys like Nash, Amare, Marion, Johnson & Barbosa running their system & hitting their shots... i'd like to see a different mindset not based on a system founded on the notion of getting as many offensive touches in the span of 48 minutes as humanly possible, defense be damned.

Before MDA introduced the system to Nash and Amare etc, they never played in that exact manner. The basic concept is based on fast decision making and creating advantages that a defense has trouble defending. You'd be surprised how much variation there actually is. Just cuz we haven't had players skilled enough to run it properly doesn't mean that it doesn't have any merits. As I pointed out it can help to produce a highly efficient offense. There are over a hundred plays with additional variations. You can bet that we haven't really seen this team running most of this stuff. Even when they have it's not the same when you don't have a PG who can properly set it up and who can think the game in the right way. A smart PG will make the most of this system and multiple smart players will make it even better. Here's a list of many of the plays. I wish we could show the many diagrams, but that's a bit much. I listed the plays just to make a point. When you think of what this team has been doing you can tell that this much variation hasn't been part of what we've been doing. We already know that MDA really hasn't been running SSOL. He couldn't get these guys to do it.


SEVEN SECONDS OR LESS PLAYS
Drag Break 
1 Bump 
1 Down 
1 Down Roll 
Angle 
Angle Clear  
Angle Option 2  
Handoff  
Clear Fist  
Double Drag  
Drag  
Dribble Drag  
Snap 
Snap Fist  
Get  
Step 3  
Step 4  
Step 5 
1 Pop  
1 Pop Roll 
2 Down  
21 Dribble Drag  
2 Down Bump  
21 Chase  
21 Pinch  
2 Down Pop  
2 Down Roll  
2 Down Roll Reverse  
2 Down  Roll Elbow  
2 Side  
21 Backdoor  
21 Quick 
3 Down  
3 Down Bump  
3 Down Roll 
Roll 34 Hold 
4 POP 
4 Pop Clear 
4 Pop Fist  
4 Side  
4 Side Low  
4 Side Low Option 2 
Fist Up  
Fist Up 2  
Fist Up 4  
Fist Up Dribble  
Fist Up Lift  
Fist Up Middle  
Fist Up Phoenix  
Fist Side  
Fist Side Low  
Fist 24 
Quick  
Quick Curl  
Quick Pinch  
Quick Double  
Quick Power  
Quick Fist  
Quick Wide 
Elbow Quick  
Elbow Quick Option 2  
Elbow Quick Single Screen  
Elbow Quick Double Screen  
Elbow 1  
Elbow 4  
Elbow 5  
Elbow Dive 
Elbow Curl 
Elbow Get 
Elbow Get High Double 
Elbow fist 
Elbow Double Fist 
Elbow Middle 
Elbow Dribble 
Elbow Middle Weak 
Elbow Minnesota
Elbow Side 
Elbow Side hand-off 
Elbow Side Skip
Elbow Strong
Thru
Thru Dive 
Thru Down 
Thru Down Flare  
Thru Dribble 
Thru Dribble Flare 
Thru Fist 
Thru Fist (option)  
Thru High 
Thru Hold 
Thru Low
Thru Opposite 
Thru Quick 
Thru Side 
Thru Stagger 
Thru Weakside
SOB Double 
SOB Fist-up 
SOB Quick 
SOB 5 Up 
SOB Shawn
Blob

It's a GREAT offense if you have the "right players." You can't just take crap out of a barrel and tell them to run SSOL. That's why the offense is flawed and that is why MDA is flawed and exposed. He can run that with the right players, but if he doesn't have the right players, there isn't much adjusting he can do or is willing to do.

And you also have to play a little defense in order for it to work, because how else will it get initiated? It wont.

D'Antoni is losing my support a little bit more each day, and that's hard to do because I usually give coaches the benefit of the doubt.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
fishmike
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Member: #298
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3/8/2010  10:13 AM
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:"Seven Seconds or Less" offense is predicated on getting the ball & shooting the ball... how many nuances do u expect to run in the span of 7 seconds? any coach can look like a genius when they have guys like Nash, Amare, Marion, Johnson & Barbosa running their system & hitting their shots... i'd like to see a different mindset not based on a system founded on the notion of getting as many offensive touches in the span of 48 minutes as humanly possible, defense be damned.

Before MDA introduced the system to Nash and Amare etc, they never played in that exact manner. The basic concept is based on fast decision making and creating advantages that a defense has trouble defending. You'd be surprised how much variation there actually is. Just cuz we haven't had players skilled enough to run it properly doesn't mean that it doesn't have any merits. As I pointed out it can help to produce a highly efficient offense. There are over a hundred plays with additional variations. You can bet that we haven't really seen this team running most of this stuff. Even when they have it's not the same when you don't have a PG who can properly set it up and who can think the game in the right way. A smart PG will make the most of this system and multiple smart players will make it even better. Here's a list of many of the plays. I wish we could show the many diagrams, but that's a bit much. I listed the plays just to make a point. When you think of what this team has been doing you can tell that this much variation hasn't been part of what we've been doing. We already know that MDA really hasn't been running SSOL. He couldn't get these guys to do it.


SEVEN SECONDS OR LESS PLAYS
Drag Break 
1 Bump 
1 Down 
1 Down Roll 
Angle 
Angle Clear  
Angle Option 2  
Handoff  
Clear Fist  
Double Drag  
Drag  
Dribble Drag  
Snap 
Snap Fist  
Get  
Step 3  
Step 4  
Step 5 
1 Pop  
1 Pop Roll 
2 Down  
21 Dribble Drag  
2 Down Bump  
21 Chase  
21 Pinch  
2 Down Pop  
2 Down Roll  
2 Down Roll Reverse  
2 Down  Roll Elbow  
2 Side  
21 Backdoor  
21 Quick 
3 Down  
3 Down Bump  
3 Down Roll 
Roll 34 Hold 
4 POP 
4 Pop Clear 
4 Pop Fist  
4 Side  
4 Side Low  
4 Side Low Option 2 
Fist Up  
Fist Up 2  
Fist Up 4  
Fist Up Dribble  
Fist Up Lift  
Fist Up Middle  
Fist Up Phoenix  
Fist Side  
Fist Side Low  
Fist 24 
Quick  
Quick Curl  
Quick Pinch  
Quick Double  
Quick Power  
Quick Fist  
Quick Wide 
Elbow Quick  
Elbow Quick Option 2  
Elbow Quick Single Screen  
Elbow Quick Double Screen  
Elbow 1  
Elbow 4  
Elbow 5  
Elbow Dive 
Elbow Curl 
Elbow Get 
Elbow Get High Double 
Elbow fist 
Elbow Double Fist 
Elbow Middle 
Elbow Dribble 
Elbow Middle Weak 
Elbow Minnesota
Elbow Side 
Elbow Side hand-off 
Elbow Side Skip
Elbow Strong
Thru
Thru Dive 
Thru Down 
Thru Down Flare  
Thru Dribble 
Thru Dribble Flare 
Thru Fist 
Thru Fist (option)  
Thru High 
Thru Hold 
Thru Low
Thru Opposite 
Thru Quick 
Thru Side 
Thru Stagger 
Thru Weakside
SOB Double 
SOB Fist-up 
SOB Quick 
SOB 5 Up 
SOB Shawn
Blob

Angle Option 2
Handoff
Clear Fist
Dribble Drag
21 Dribble Drag
21 Pinch
2 Down Bump
21 Backdoor
4 Pop Fist
Fist Up
Fist Up 2
Fist Up 4
Fist Up Dribble
Fist Up Lift
Fist Up Middle
Fist Up Phoenix
Thru Dive
Blob
Elbow Double Fist

sounds like one of TMS's bukkake videos

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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If Mark Jackson was hired as coach in 08
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