The decision to leave the Orlando Magic in the summer of 1996 turned out to be one of the biggest decisions of Shaq's life. He said Orlando initially offered him 69 million over 7 years. Jerry West of the Lakers was cutting players to make room for Shaq and he was discussing figures in the 98 million dollar range. Apparently the Magic decided to up their offer to 99 million when they got wind of what Jerry West was doing. Finally, Jerry West sent George Lynch to Vancouver in a move that brought the offer up to 121 million.

but unlike that situation, cle + mia + tor can offer their guys more than ny - that's why i said it has nothing to do with $$$ if they choose to play in ny.

there's no need to feel sad - i know what the situation is. i'm not sitting back and hoping and praying. if bosh leaves he leaves - big whoop. he's not the reason i jumped ship.

However, his overall defense is still off-the-charts horrible. Childs2Dudley is correct in saying this. He doesn't box out. He plays piss poor post defense, against big and small guys alike. Often he doesn't even put up a hand in the shooter's face. No desire, it sickens me. To be fair, he's not the only one, but then no one is claiming these other guys are all that like with Lee.

The pro-Lee guys are getting very shrill and shreiking their support for this guy. I understand you like Lee, and if you want to say that defense is not important, then it's OK to ignore those of us who call Lee out for it. If that's your outlook (as it seems to be Dantoni's), then our argument understandabley seems idiotic to you. I mean, hey, defense is not important. Let's just outscore the other guys. Right?

I believe our CORE guys should be 2-way players. I believe defense is crucial, above all in the playoffs. It's OK to have speciality guys coming off the bench. D'antoni's old team won a ton of games but predictably got bounced from the post season, I would argue, because they couldn't defend in crucial situations. Everybody can score in the NBA, only the best can prevent teams from scoring.

Personally, I cringe watching Lee play, despite his big numbers. Sorry if that gets your panties in a bunch. I would prefer to look elsewhere for main guys. Thank you.

nychamp wrote:Lee has shown some willingness to block a shot here and there over the last several games. This is a welcome development.

However, his overall defense is still off-the-charts horrible. Childs2Dudley is correct in saying this. He doesn't box out. He plays piss poor post defense, against big and small guys alike. Often he doesn't even put up a hand in the shooter's face. No desire, it sickens me. To be fair, he's not the only one, but then no one is claiming these other guys are all that like with Lee.

The pro-Lee guys are getting very shrill and shreiking their support for this guy. I understand you like Lee, and if you want to say that defense is not important, then it's OK to ignore those of us who call Lee out for it. If that's your outlook (as it seems to be Dantoni's), then our argument understandabley seems idiotic to you. I mean, hey, defense is not important. Let's just outscore the other guys. Right?

I believe our CORE guys should be 2-way players. I believe defense is crucial, above all in the playoffs. It's OK to have speciality guys coming off the bench. D'antoni's old team won a ton of games but predictably got bounced from the post season, I would argue, because they couldn't defend in crucial situations. Everybody can score in the NBA, only the best can prevent teams from scoring.

Personally, I cringe watching Lee play, despite his big numbers. Sorry if that gets your panties in a bunch. I would prefer to look elsewhere for main guys. Thank you.

Who are your two players your getting next year? Who are you going to add who's defense is going to be so good and his rebounding so dominating that your going to offset Lee's 20 ppg he gets at 55% shooting?

Tell me something constructive and I wont say your dumb for thinking Lee isnt core rotation player. Different players do different things and have different roles.

Let hear who your guy is. Mine's Lee for 6 years and $70mm. Thats a good deal and starts him at $9mm next year and leaves us enough for a max guy + $6-$9mm depending on cap space.

Looking forward to your ideas.

Cosmic wrote:Anyone else like this sudden surge of good play from these three? If Lee keeps that up, and by keep it up I mean do it every game, then we keep him if we fail on the Bosh/Bron thing this summer.

Walker has been an amazing spark plug talent. Like a more powerful Ariza type. Every team needs that "scrub off the bench" that comes in and jams the ball down the opponents throat. We had Ariza do it. Cavs have Hickson doing it. Now we have Walker doing it.

That Nate trade suddenly looks spectacular!

Gallo looked very good last night. Seemed to feel good. Didn't see any back spasms last night that's for certain. Had to love the aggressive drives. We need that every game. No reason Gallo can't drive 3-4 times a game for an easy layup.

Granted the opponent didn't have much defensive stopping power but that shouldn't be a reason to not try to drive the ball.

I liked what I saw from those three last night.

Interesting to see TMac start at PG. The game is so slow to him. He just calmly runs things without incident. He too looked like he was moving okay. He's definitely stiff and slow but I don't recall him hurting last night.

Overall, some nice little positive signs from four players last night. Four players who may be here next year.

good post cosmic... I think bill walker can be better than the "scrub" off the bench, but I get your point.. the kid is an explosive talent..

I also like the way gallo is playing of late, the last game had a lot to do with ball movement. when he gets the ball early in the clock he is a different player..

Lee, I am still on the fence with lee, but we just can't have the offense run through him. He and Al start their monkey business and the offense is all out of whack.. T-mac kept the ball moving, and the offense balanced. he really involved everyone and didn't let any foolish play continue on the court.. boy this team looks so much better when you have a top talent pulling these guys together.. T-mac may not be the athlete before the knee surgeries, but skillwise he is as good as we had in a long time..

Childs2Dudley wrote:Lee's defense was not good. Compared to what he usually gives it was good but he really was lazy on defense at times. They got in the paint and did whatever they wanted a lot of the time and he failed to box out Maxiel a few times, plus was burned on back-door cuts on numerous occasions. Whatever. They're just playing out the string.

I'm happy with our guys but of the 4 you mentioned, I sincerely hope David Lee is not back here next year because it will mean that we failed in the 2010 plan.

Now, believe me, I'm not making it out to be that Lee is suddenly a defender. I'm one of the more outspoken people against his defense - and if we should re-sign him.

Yet. The past few games he has made the attempt. Which is a change...and we know the guy works on one aspect of his game at a time and a year later comes back a master of that facet of the game. If he improves the defense to acceptable then he is a keeper.

It's obvious that the Jeffries trade was made to try to get LeBron - AND KEEP LEE - for we couldn't do both prior to that trade.

Of course if LeBron and Bosh tell Walsh they want to team up then it's GOODBYE LEE - but - all the same, we're about flexibility and options here... and the Jeffries trade let us be that much more flexible.

If Lee is retained I won't be upset. Yet, I want to see more of the David Lee we just watched the past few games. Also more of the Gallo we saw last night.

Positive signs.

Exactly cosmic

You add Chris Bosh and suddenly the frontcourt adds yet another ball handler who happens to be 6'11

(No to Joe Johnson, who would be a huge error as he is not the passer)

McGrady directs the floor and sets the tempo. Goal - Make the playoffs

2011 is the year to acquire the finishing piece. Carmelo? Yes. Then the fun really starts

Cosmic wrote:Yes.

It's just a thought, but, I think it illustrates what the past two years were about: FLEXIBILITY.

The chance to do whatever you want and if your first choice fails it's no problem you can pursue other options. Many options.

This is the difference between Walsh and Isiah (who he is compared to because to the draft pick being traded) but it's unfair. Isiah's plan was an all or nothing situation. Either the player we traded for makes us good or we're screwed for four years.

Walsh? It's not that way. Either the plan for LeBron works, or, WE HAVE INFINITE FLEXIBILITY to pursue Plan B, or C, Or D, or E, or F, etc!

Which is why I get angry when people liken the Jeffries trade to the Curry or Marbury trade. Can you be any more WRONG? Isiah's trades backed us into a financial corner spanning 6 years into the future. If his plan didn't work (it didnt) you just doomed the franchise for SIX YEARS.

Walsh? If his plan doesn't work...you doomed the franchise for ONE YEAR. For the following summer - heck even the following trade deadline - you still have all this wiggle room to work with!

Isiah...doomed you for YEARS with his moves. Walsh? At worst doomed you for months.

Therin lies the difference.

We are free to build a team.

That line alone should excite EVERY fan. It doesn't though and I don't know why.

Tired of hearing we traded three lotto picks. (It was one, but, hey, saying three sounds better I guess). Tired of hearing that Jordan Hill was poised to be a superstar to build around. Tired of hearing that Jeffries was the glue to a championship team. Tired of hearing that the 2011 and 2012 picks (which if we had stayed the course would be 8-12th picks) were going to be Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant in their primes.

TIRED TIRED TIRED of this SHYT (/chris rock)

Our future is bright, and, wide open. When is the last time the Knicks had more than one option to pursue? (lol, MLE)

I feel you cosmic, and you are correct.. I guess people are so tired of giving up picks that even when protected we are still some what skeptical about such deals... If Isiah only had put protection on the picks, we would be in much better shape right now..

I also like the flexibility that we have now, because it is not an all or nothing deal. In this deal for nate, we got a possible diamond in the rough with bill walker(go over to the celtics board on realgm, their fans are upset... LOL) and giddens is another player who will get a look.. my point is. Isiah never seemed to make these kind of deals, all of Isiah deals seemed to come at great cost..

these last 22 games I want to see us win and see guys like gallo, walker and douglas along with sergio gain some kind of chemistry...

TMS wrote:protected picks? u guys are kidding right? protected to 1 & to 5 in back to back drafts is not much protection... that's like putting on a popped condom, sleeping with a crack ho & thinking you won't get herpes.

just think of it this way, if this years pick utah owns of ours was top 5 protected wouldn't you feel a lot better about it? how about #1 protected? come on man, you would not be upset at all... I guess the thinking is that any player we could get after pick 5 is not worth having a shot at getting multiple FA's.. not saying I was thrilled about the trade. I spoke out against it, but the fact that he protected the picks is much more than we have gotten in the past..

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:protected picks? u guys are kidding right? protected to 1 & to 5 in back to back drafts is not much protection... that's like putting on a popped condom, sleeping with a crack ho & thinking you won't get herpes.

just think of it this way, if this years pick utah owns of ours was top 5 protected wouldn't you feel a lot better about it? how about #1 protected? come on man, you would not be upset at all... I guess the thinking is that any player we could get after pick 5 is not worth having a shot at getting multiple FA's.. not saying I was thrilled about the trade. I spoke out against it, but the fact that he protected the picks is much more than we have gotten in the past..

I could be wrong but I think that the Utah pick was protected to 2010 and it was the Knicks choice. They had 6 years to get out of the lottery. The two picks Houston got are for two consecutive years. I think the only reason Morey didn't just get the 2011 pick is because teams are not allowed to trade first round picks for two consecutive years. It is built in as a protection so that teams can't give away all of their future assets.

yea, it was protected but the problem is, in between time, Isiah traded so many other picks unprotected, we never reaped the benefits of the protection of that trade.... It is turning out well for Utah because we stunk for so many years and didn't have the benefit of our own picks to make our team better, so that this pick would not be a lottery pick for utah..

I guess this trade was not the best example because of the length of the protection, but I was just trying to make a point about "protection" in general.

that team sounds like it will have a tough time vs BOSTON, ORLANDO, CLeveland, and even atlanta if these teams stay the same.....
just my opinion.