BRIGGS wrote:Id really like to ask Donnie Walsk these three questions. Donnie--if you can get back to us--I would appreciate it

Donnie we already had 24mm in cap space for 2010 and 18mm in expirings and what looks like an additional max salary slot for 2011. Why did you give up Jordan Hill and two additional what could be lottery picks--essentially 3 lottery picks for 9mm more in cap space? If we don't use that cap space in 2010--then we just gave away 3 potential lottery picks for nothing. Why would you risk that scenario?

What is your take on the coach's performance--especially on the defensive side of the ball after he proclaimed he would be getting back to his style of basketball after the trade?

At least the ONE lottery pick is top 5 protected. if isiah had done that we wouldn't have lost a chance to draft LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy.

Jordan Hill was not worth sacrificing cap room for. His $3M salary was dead weight. After he played in the NBA he no longer had the value of the #8 pick, his value was only Jordan Hill, which was quite low.

I believe the Knicks absolutely WILL use their cap room this summer - there is a lockout coming next summer and potentially serious changes to the entire NBA. The Knicks will spend. It remains to be seen how wisely they do so, but they clearly made this move to spend now.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

as a Knick fan during the last 9 years, how the heck can you expect anything to go right for the franchise?

you act like I expect something good to happen! I dont. Not at all. I only think something good can happen. Hell... McDyess could have averaged 20/10 and he, dirty Kurty, Spree and Houston could have had a couple of good playoff runs.

Hell.. Van Horn, Doleac, Kurt, Houston and Marbury looked pretty solid also! The perfect drive and kick PG with a team of great shooters and rebounders around him.

Curry/Zach/Marbury/Crawford had potential for a nice mix of outside scoring and SIZE.

All those plans failed, and really were not that good, but just because Layden and Isiah's plans failed doesnt mean Walsh's plans will.

sebstar wrote:Fishmike...

Over the years I have always been critical about the myopia that has permeated this board, which tends to spike during losing streaks or what have you.

But right now there is legitimate cause for concern. Walsh has boxed us into a rail. We dont have any young, surefire prospects on our roster and we certainly dont have any franchise level draft picks on the horizon.

So all our eggs are in Lebron's basket. Us getting our shyt pushed in on a nightly basis is not a good recruiting campaign for the best b-ball player in the world. Honestly, why would he want to come here?

So the alternative is to sign the Joe Johnson's or Boozers of the world. Well my point is this --- we could have gotten players like that without completely sacrificing our future.

There is sense of mismanagement that is becoming palpable. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm growing more and more pessimistic. I dont like D'ivatoni and his approach to player relations or his approach to the game of basketball. I dont like a lot of Walsh's personnel decisions. I dont like the makeup of our roster and outside of getting a Lebron or Wade, which are complete long shots, the 2010 free agent pool is not worth the cost.

Here is where I totally disagree. Everyone focuses on signing costly FAs but there are tons of other options.

I mean we saw Utah dump a really good player in Brewer (former lottery pick still in rookie deal) for nothing. Literally just a cost cutting move.

What if we dont get Lebron, and instead Utah sends us AK47 (owed like $17mm) + our first rounder (say pick 6) and their 2nd rounder #54 for cash considerations?

That would save Utah $18mm and give them a massive trade exception they could use during the year.

We get a big expiring (and somewhat usefull AK47) and a lottery pick.

My point is simply cap space gives us a 100 creative options outside of "LEBRON OR BUST"

We can be the coveted 3rd team to take salary to make other team's trades to work in exchange for picks.

Saying "this management failed" because Lebron is changing his number is assanine.

Walsh has done nothing spectacular here but is a good BB man. He deserves a little patience to see what he does with the flexibility he has traded for.

fishmike--we just agve up 3 drafts--for what to try and get other teamz to give us theirs? No it was F stupid--we had 24mm in cap room already--we didnt need to give up J Hill and possibly two more lottery picks--we have no hedge in case we are bad again. After giving away so many picks--why do it again when you ALREADY had 24mm in cap space available to you in 2010? To get Carlos Boozer and Joe Johnson?????? Because the only thing that I can see is the Knicks want two max FA--anything else doesnt make an iota of sense.

Because the only thing that I can see is the Knicks want two max FA--anything else doesnt make an iota of sense.

We have exchanged banter for almost ten years since you were RipHamilton on MSG. If you know anything about me I dont attack to belittle or pretent to know more than other people. But your singleminded focus here is getting tiresome.

Did the Knicks do this to sign 2 max players?

OF COURSE. DUH. Its simple. Sign LBJ and Lebron down together and say the city can be yours, bla bla bla

What is irritating is your daily rally of the troops that if this fails (which is possible) there are ZERO alternatives and we just whiffed and it cost us the next 10 drafts. Thats just not true. The cap space created can be used in a variety of ways, and has been.

To sum up my point
Yes, we did this to sign two max guys.
Yes that can fail.
If it does fail Knicks can still aquire picks and players in creative ways that only cap space affords
Yes that can fail also

Regardless of what happens this was done to give us a chance to sign a 25 year old player who is a once in a generation guy who is a NY fan. Its no different than dumping good players in a draft that has franchise players. If it works your franchise is changed.

BRIGGS wrote:Id really like to ask Donnie Walsk these three questions. Donnie--if you can get back to us--I would appreciate it

[Donnie]Oh my. A direct question here on UK. Well, let me grab a tall glass of Metamusil and change my, um...."underwear". Let me see if I can help you out and satisfy some questions from one one of our most loyal and mentally unstable fans![/Donnie]

Why did you give up Jordan Hill

[Donnie] HAVE YOU SEEN HIM PLAY??? That boy plays like he's got two left feet and two left hands and all of the digits are broken! I mean, I've made some mistakes in my life. Yeah, my first car purchase was a Ford Edsel. Yeah, I once spent 1,500 dollars on leisure suits. Yeah, in the '80s I told all my friends to not worry about condoms or AIDS because it was just a "homo" disease, but DAMN this one took the cake!

If not for that stupid ass fool Don Nelson, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Why the hell did he need another 6ft guard again? Oh well, as you can tell I had no Plan B once Curry was off the board and there was no way in hell I was going to draft that lil thug, er Black...uh Brandon Jennings.

Besides, I figured I couldnt go wrong drafting an Arizona big man. But yeah, I would have carried Hill on my back all the way to Houston if my damn hip wasnt so bad. [Donnie]

and two additional what could be lottery picks--essentially 3 lottery picks for 9mm more in cap space? If we don't use that cap space in 2010--then we just gave away 3 potential lottery picks for nothing. Why would you risk that scenario?

[Donnie]Can I be honest with you? I dont give a flyin fukk. First of all, this is about me. ME, ME, ME! If I can bring Lebron to NY, I will have surpassed Gotti as the true NY Don. That's all I care about. Now if it doesnt work out and this thing blows up, well I'll be fine too. I'll just be another in the long, long, extra long line of bad NY GM's. Just throw me on the pile.

Besides, in the next few years dementia will be setting in for me so I wont even realize what's going on when we give up multiple, successive number one picks as we win 20 games a year.

I'm Good! Dont worry. If all else fails, I'll just keep blaming Isiah which ALWAYS works![/Donnie]

What is your take on the coach's performance--especially on the defensive side of the ball after he proclaimed he would be getting back to his style of basketball after the trade?

[Donnie]Why dont you ask him, yourself? He's right here in the bed with me! I love when he calls me his bottom bitch... Its so cute![/Donnie]

BRIGGS wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Id really like to ask Donnie Walsk these three questions. Donnie--if you can get back to us--I would appreciate it

Donnie we already had 24mm in cap space for 2010 and 18mm in expirings and what looks like an additional max salary slot for 2011. Why did you give up Jordan Hill and two additional what could be lottery picks--essentially 3 lottery picks for 9mm more in cap space? If we don't use that cap space in 2010--then we just gave away 3 potential lottery picks for nothing. Why would you risk that scenario?

What is your take on the coach's performance--especially on the defensive side of the ball after he proclaimed he would be getting back to his style of basketball after the trade?

At least the ONE lottery pick is top 5 protected. if isiah had done that we wouldn't have lost a chance to draft LaMarcus Aldridge or Brandon Roy.

Jordan Hill was not worth sacrificing cap room for. His $3M salary was dead weight. After he played in the NBA he no longer had the value of the #8 pick, his value was only Jordan Hill, which was quite low.

I believe the Knicks absolutely WILL use their cap room this summer - there is a lockout coming next summer and potentially serious changes to the entire NBA. The Knicks will spend. It remains to be seen how wisely they do so, but they clearly made this move to spend now.

Cryz if the Knicks stink next year and we get pick 2 in the draft and houston is in slot 18--where do we pick? we pick 18--

If we end up in slot 8 in 2012 do we pick it?

If Jordan Hill turns out to be a good player--it wont be for the team who picked him less than 9 months ago 8

These are all real scenarios for 9mm more in cap space. What will you say if we dont use it long term? I dont mean signing a FA to a one year deal--I mean long term deals. That we just gave all that away for 0.

obviously, all those scenarios are possible.

but i believe they will use all the cap room this off season. whether they use it well or not... remains to be seen.

if Donnie Walsh cleared all this cap & gave up all those assets to just so he could make sure to re-sign D Lee & still have the cap room to sign a max FA, is that a successful outcome? speaking for myself i think that's a disaster cuz there's no way Lebron's coming to play with that group... $31 mil in cap space is not going to be enough to lure 2 max FA's to NY & still field a competitive team... if that is Donnie's plan then he still needs to clear Curry's contract to make sure he can put together a team that can compete next season, cuz there's no way we're getting 2 max FA's to sign here w/o any assets to give up in a S&T.

sebstar wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Id really like to ask Donnie Walsk these three questions. Donnie--if you can get back to us--I would appreciate it

[Donnie]Oh my. A direct question here on UK. Well, let me grab a tall glass of Metamusil and change my, um...."underwear". Let me see if I can help you out and satisfy some questions from one one of our most loyal and mentally unstable fans![/Donnie]

Why did you give up Jordan Hill

[Donnie] HAVE YOU SEEN HIM PLAY??? That boy plays like he's got two left feet and two left hands and all of the digits are broken! I mean, I've made some mistakes in my life. Yeah, my first car purchase was a Ford Edsel. Yeah, I once spent 1,500 dollars on leisure suits. Yeah, in the '80s I told all my friends to not worry about condoms or AIDS because it was just a "homo" disease, but DAMN this one took the cake!

If not for that stupid ass fool Don Nelson, we wouldnt be having this conversation. Why the hell did he need another 6ft guard again? Oh well, as you can tell I had no Plan B once Curry was off the board and there was no way in hell I was going to draft that lil thug, er Black...uh Brandon Jennings.

Besides, I figured I couldnt go wrong drafting an Arizona big man. But yeah, I would have carried Hill on my back all the way to Houston if my damn hip wasnt so bad. [Donnie]

and two additional what could be lottery picks--essentially 3 lottery picks for 9mm more in cap space? If we don't use that cap space in 2010--then we just gave away 3 potential lottery picks for nothing. Why would you risk that scenario?

[Donnie]Can I be honest with you? I dont give a flyin fukk. First of all, this is about me. ME, ME, ME! If I can bring Lebron to NY, I will have surpassed Gotti as the true NY Don. That's all I care about. Now if it doesnt work out and this thing blows up, well I'll be fine too. I'll just be another in the long, long, extra long line of bad NY GM's. Just throw me on the pile.

Besides, in the next few years dementia will be setting in for me so I wont even realize what's going on when we give up multiple, successive number one picks as we win 20 games a year.

I'm Good! Dont worry. If all else fails, I'll just keep blaming Isiah which ALWAYS works![/Donnie]

What is your take on the coach's performance--especially on the defensive side of the ball after he proclaimed he would be getting back to his style of basketball after the trade?

[Donnie]Why dont you ask him, yourself? He's right here in the bed with me! I love when he calls me his bottom bitch... Its so cute![/Donnie]

GOLD!

EwingsGlass wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:
That's fine--I know we are and were going to have atleast 24mm in cap space. Here is my problem--unless we spend MORE than 24mm in cash this summer--we just gave away possibly 3 high caliber assets for NOTHING. What happens if we stink the next two years and have to give up pick 4 and pick 7 in the next two drafts to go along with pick 8 we just traded in 2009 and 2010 pick thats going to Utah? This is correct. The actual cap space number you used might not be accurate, but the point is correct. By this strategy, we are foregoing rebuilding through the draft in favor or rebuilding through free agency. If we cannot build a contending team in 2010 (not 2011) this strategy has backfired.

Why havent we learned a lesson that the worst case scenario's can not only come true but they have been going on for 9 years? How could you take away that hedge for 9mm more in cap room when you have such a poor semblance of a team--what kind of business model is this? NO team NO team has ever done this None. And you cant understand why a fan[s] would be flabbergasted by this move. Granted only 20% or less even understand it but for those who get it--it was a downright awful move--I cant say it enough. You can't fight scared. We gave up our 2009 1st rd pick, gave an option on our 2011 and gave up our 2012 to remove $9M from our salary cap this year. We will have room to tender two max contracts and will make every effort to do so. Re-building through the draft is dangerous and risky also. Sometimes you have to believe your team will beat the odds. If getting Lebron is the only answer, it was a terrible bet. If getting two star level talent players is important, this flexibility will get us there. Whether we sign a star free agent, absorb a star player contract, or build a modestly paid all-Briggs team consisting of relatively unknown talent, this team committed to do it through free agency and not the draft. NY has two assets that speak to using free agency (1) city appeal and (2) willingness to spend. Rebuilding through the draft requires a combination of skill and luck. Our guys are trying to rely on skill and money. I think they are right.

How in the heck is LBJ coming here if he's a man of his word? This is a calamity that continues to get worse. We'll spend our money--we'll get two good players--but we have already had that--weve had good players here. If there was a way to trade a high pick for an existing star--we just gave that up beyond making the pick. A future draft pick from a team with Lebron is the 24th to 30th pick overall. If Lebron comes to NY, it will his pressure on the Cavs that will force the S&T, not the quality of pick they get back. They could probably get IllWill out of the Knicks to get it done.

I hope that D Walsh sees that MDA might not be the man for the job because he will not accept bigger players--the Knicks tonight were an embarrassment. Just one week ago MDA promoted getting back to his game.It's funny but the game becomes much harder when Steve Nash isnt on your team anymore.. This is a totally unfair statement. Judge Coach D by next year. This has been the plan all along. Let him have his team, then see how he does.

Were supposed to be making an impression on this player and I think we did. Our showcase 6-11 player--no rebounds 3-10 hiding 30 feet from the basket and being abused on D. D Lee destroyed by Verajuo. The Cavs team without James is by far much more superior up and won the bench--it's not even close unless we get the last 3 off the bench. We are so far away from being good that we should not have taken the draft off the table for the unknown. And lastly was the new CBA taken into consideration? What if the top line cap changes significantly to a much lower number and it's a hard cap? Bad bad business move and the fans will be the one's who pay. In order, Gallo has been playing poorly. He needs to work that out. Lee doesn't play defense. Superstars make the players around them better. Lee doesn't so he may need to move on. The look on Eddie House's face when Delonte went into the paint and nobody (LEE) made him pay for it was telling. You know the Celtics wouldn't let that happen. As for the new CBA, a hard cap is a near impossibility in this market. The only way to make a hard cap work is to have non-guaranteed contracts. This players association will not let that happen. You have to presume that next CBA will resemble this one with some adjustment. I would expect them to make it easier to get back under the cap... perhaps allowing contracts to come off the cap sooner so teams aren't hamstrung by bad decisions.

See my answers above in BOLD.

What if we had pick 4 in the draft next year and New Orleans was willing to trade us Paul for the pick because they liked Collison and felt they would lose Paul. It's not just picking college players--we gave up a whole separate avenue--using the picks to acquire players on teams who may be stars and not FA's. Example--Pau Gasol etc.. we dont have that option now.