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A plan I would sign on for...
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holfresh
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2/27/2010  9:50 PM
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:It's LeBron or bust...No other player or players the Knicks could resign will justify what the Knicks gave up to get well under the cap...

Honestly, in your own mind, what are the odds Lebron signs with the Knicks? Percentage wise?

Slim to none honestly...I think Walsh went overboard in what he gave up to clear cap space...I have often commented it seems he knows something the rest of us don't...

Saying he knows something would suggest he's tampering. I think he knows about as much as you and I. I agree that he gave up a bit much when he included the pick, but I disagree that its Lebron or bust. We have many options this summer which too me, is key. Saying its Lebron or bust is setting yourself up to be disappointed.


First of all D Wade is never leaving Miami, never....What are the other options this offseason that you can think of that warrants giving up last years first round pick, along with the 2012 pick..Swapping the 2011..Not siging DLee to a reasonable deal last year...

If D Wade aint never leaving south beach, what is taking him so long to sign on the dotted? Not saying he wont resign there, but I wont go so far as to say never. As I said, previoulsy, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2012 pick; Hill not so much, wasn't a fan of that dude.

Options: Ability to sign two max contracts from the 2010 class. Or sign one max and two smaller deals. We can wait until 2011 if need be, we also have the ability to absorb big contracts in trades, etc. Yes, we lost the ability to land in the upper tier of the draft for a couple of years (which sucks) but all other avenues are still open. Moreso than they would have been had we not made that trade. I think the % of Lebron or any max-player signing with us increased with the trade.



Name names...D wade isn't leaving...We have a better chance of getting LeBron than D Wade...Who do you think warrants giving up draft pick for??
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Uptown
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2/27/2010  9:58 PM
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:It's LeBron or bust...No other player or players the Knicks could resign will justify what the Knicks gave up to get well under the cap...

Honestly, in your own mind, what are the odds Lebron signs with the Knicks? Percentage wise?

Slim to none honestly...I think Walsh went overboard in what he gave up to clear cap space...I have often commented it seems he knows something the rest of us don't...

Saying he knows something would suggest he's tampering. I think he knows about as much as you and I. I agree that he gave up a bit much when he included the pick, but I disagree that its Lebron or bust. We have many options this summer which too me, is key. Saying its Lebron or bust is setting yourself up to be disappointed.


First of all D Wade is never leaving Miami, never....What are the other options this offseason that you can think of that warrants giving up last years first round pick, along with the 2012 pick..Swapping the 2011..Not siging DLee to a reasonable deal last year...

If D Wade aint never leaving south beach, what is taking him so long to sign on the dotted? Not saying he wont resign there, but I wont go so far as to say never. As I said, previoulsy, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2012 pick; Hill not so much, wasn't a fan of that dude.

Options: Ability to sign two max contracts from the 2010 class. Or sign one max and two smaller deals. We can wait until 2011 if need be, we also have the ability to absorb big contracts in trades, etc. Yes, we lost the ability to land in the upper tier of the draft for a couple of years (which sucks) but all other avenues are still open. Moreso than they would have been had we not made that trade. I think the % of Lebron or any max-player signing with us increased with the trade.



Name names...D wade isn't leaving...We have a better chance of getting LeBron than D Wade...Who do you think warrants giving up draft pick for??

Holfresh, I've said it twice already and say it again, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2010 pick. But, whats done is done. I'm not going to wallo in misery and try and duct tape a team together in my mind based on draft picks we could of had.

Name names? You know the names just aswell as I do: Lebron, Bosh, Stoudemire, Wade, Gay, Johnson, Dirk, Boozer, Lee...etc. Not to mention the class of 2011 featuring Melo if he opts out. These are all options, not gaurantees or course. We can also absorb contracts. What if a player like Paul becomes available within the next year or 2? We have to ability to take his contract aswell as another big contract if the Hornerts or a team of tha ilk go into dump mode. Options.

holfresh
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2/27/2010  10:04 PM
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:It's LeBron or bust...No other player or players the Knicks could resign will justify what the Knicks gave up to get well under the cap...

Honestly, in your own mind, what are the odds Lebron signs with the Knicks? Percentage wise?

Slim to none honestly...I think Walsh went overboard in what he gave up to clear cap space...I have often commented it seems he knows something the rest of us don't...

Saying he knows something would suggest he's tampering. I think he knows about as much as you and I. I agree that he gave up a bit much when he included the pick, but I disagree that its Lebron or bust. We have many options this summer which too me, is key. Saying its Lebron or bust is setting yourself up to be disappointed.


First of all D Wade is never leaving Miami, never....What are the other options this offseason that you can think of that warrants giving up last years first round pick, along with the 2012 pick..Swapping the 2011..Not siging DLee to a reasonable deal last year...

If D Wade aint never leaving south beach, what is taking him so long to sign on the dotted? Not saying he wont resign there, but I wont go so far as to say never. As I said, previoulsy, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2012 pick; Hill not so much, wasn't a fan of that dude.

Options: Ability to sign two max contracts from the 2010 class. Or sign one max and two smaller deals. We can wait until 2011 if need be, we also have the ability to absorb big contracts in trades, etc. Yes, we lost the ability to land in the upper tier of the draft for a couple of years (which sucks) but all other avenues are still open. Moreso than they would have been had we not made that trade. I think the % of Lebron or any max-player signing with us increased with the trade.



Name names...D wade isn't leaving...We have a better chance of getting LeBron than D Wade...Who do you think warrants giving up draft pick for??

Holfresh, I've said it twice already and say it again, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2010 pick. But, whats done is done. I'm not going to wallo in misery and try and duct tape a team together in my mind based on draft picks we could of had.

Name names? You know the names just aswell as I do: Lebron, Bosh, Stoudemire, Wade, Gay, Johnson, Dirk, Boozer, Lee...etc. Not to mention the class of 2011 featuring Melo if he opts out. These are all options, not gaurantees or course. We can also absorb contracts. What if a player like Paul becomes available within the next year or 2? We have to ability to take his contract aswell as another big contract if the Hornerts or a team of tha ilk go into dump mode. Options.



I think you were originally questioning why I thought it was LeBron or bust...Conversation got off course..no big deal...
TheGame
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2/27/2010  10:06 PM
babyKnicks wrote:If the Knicks are unable to sign Lebron, Wade or Bosh, could fans get comfortable with the idea of a roster dominated by the clients of superagent Arn Tellem? And if Lebron is unobtainable, would fans be happy rooting for a team assembled around a core with Joe Johnson at its center, but also including veterans like McGrady, Jermaine O’Neal and perhaps Mike Miller?

It’s something to start considering because I think this could very well be the outcome of summer 2010. And it may have been Donnie Walsh’s “plan A” all along.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/outerlink.asp?id=914560

What is that? The All-Hurt and Washed-up squad. That might be an improvement over the sorry bunch of losers Walsh assembled this year, but a team of O'Neal, McGrady, and Miller, even if we kept everyone else, would still barely contend for the 8th spot and would have absolutely no future.

Trust the Process
Uptown
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2/27/2010  10:08 PM
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:It's LeBron or bust...No other player or players the Knicks could resign will justify what the Knicks gave up to get well under the cap...

Honestly, in your own mind, what are the odds Lebron signs with the Knicks? Percentage wise?

Slim to none honestly...I think Walsh went overboard in what he gave up to clear cap space...I have often commented it seems he knows something the rest of us don't...

Saying he knows something would suggest he's tampering. I think he knows about as much as you and I. I agree that he gave up a bit much when he included the pick, but I disagree that its Lebron or bust. We have many options this summer which too me, is key. Saying its Lebron or bust is setting yourself up to be disappointed.


First of all D Wade is never leaving Miami, never....What are the other options this offseason that you can think of that warrants giving up last years first round pick, along with the 2012 pick..Swapping the 2011..Not siging DLee to a reasonable deal last year...

If D Wade aint never leaving south beach, what is taking him so long to sign on the dotted? Not saying he wont resign there, but I wont go so far as to say never. As I said, previoulsy, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2012 pick; Hill not so much, wasn't a fan of that dude.

Options: Ability to sign two max contracts from the 2010 class. Or sign one max and two smaller deals. We can wait until 2011 if need be, we also have the ability to absorb big contracts in trades, etc. Yes, we lost the ability to land in the upper tier of the draft for a couple of years (which sucks) but all other avenues are still open. Moreso than they would have been had we not made that trade. I think the % of Lebron or any max-player signing with us increased with the trade.



Name names...D wade isn't leaving...We have a better chance of getting LeBron than D Wade...Who do you think warrants giving up draft pick for??

Holfresh, I've said it twice already and say it again, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2010 pick. But, whats done is done. I'm not going to wallo in misery and try and duct tape a team together in my mind based on draft picks we could of had.

Name names? You know the names just aswell as I do: Lebron, Bosh, Stoudemire, Wade, Gay, Johnson, Dirk, Boozer, Lee...etc. Not to mention the class of 2011 featuring Melo if he opts out. These are all options, not gaurantees or course. We can also absorb contracts. What if a player like Paul becomes available within the next year or 2? We have to ability to take his contract aswell as another big contract if the Hornerts or a team of tha ilk go into dump mode. Options.



I think you were originally questioning why I thought it was LeBron or bust...Conversation got off course..no big deal...

My point was/is we have options now. I'm not in the Lebron or bust camp.

TheGame
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2/27/2010  10:10 PM
holfresh wrote:
Really, we are trading draft picks for TMac, Joe Johnson, Mike Miller and Jamaine O'Neal...really...So why fire Isiah??

That's is my thought exactly. If this was Walsh's plan, we would have been better off with IT. He at least would have drafted a PG in the draft.

Trust the Process
holfresh
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2/27/2010  10:11 PM
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Uptown wrote:
holfresh wrote:It's LeBron or bust...No other player or players the Knicks could resign will justify what the Knicks gave up to get well under the cap...

Honestly, in your own mind, what are the odds Lebron signs with the Knicks? Percentage wise?

Slim to none honestly...I think Walsh went overboard in what he gave up to clear cap space...I have often commented it seems he knows something the rest of us don't...

Saying he knows something would suggest he's tampering. I think he knows about as much as you and I. I agree that he gave up a bit much when he included the pick, but I disagree that its Lebron or bust. We have many options this summer which too me, is key. Saying its Lebron or bust is setting yourself up to be disappointed.


First of all D Wade is never leaving Miami, never....What are the other options this offseason that you can think of that warrants giving up last years first round pick, along with the 2012 pick..Swapping the 2011..Not siging DLee to a reasonable deal last year...

If D Wade aint never leaving south beach, what is taking him so long to sign on the dotted? Not saying he wont resign there, but I wont go so far as to say never. As I said, previoulsy, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2012 pick; Hill not so much, wasn't a fan of that dude.

Options: Ability to sign two max contracts from the 2010 class. Or sign one max and two smaller deals. We can wait until 2011 if need be, we also have the ability to absorb big contracts in trades, etc. Yes, we lost the ability to land in the upper tier of the draft for a couple of years (which sucks) but all other avenues are still open. Moreso than they would have been had we not made that trade. I think the % of Lebron or any max-player signing with us increased with the trade.



Name names...D wade isn't leaving...We have a better chance of getting LeBron than D Wade...Who do you think warrants giving up draft pick for??

Holfresh, I've said it twice already and say it again, I hated that Walsh gave up the 2010 pick. But, whats done is done. I'm not going to wallo in misery and try and duct tape a team together in my mind based on draft picks we could of had.

Name names? You know the names just aswell as I do: Lebron, Bosh, Stoudemire, Wade, Gay, Johnson, Dirk, Boozer, Lee...etc. Not to mention the class of 2011 featuring Melo if he opts out. These are all options, not gaurantees or course. We can also absorb contracts. What if a player like Paul becomes available within the next year or 2? We have to ability to take his contract aswell as another big contract if the Hornerts or a team of tha ilk go into dump mode. Options.



I think you were originally questioning why I thought it was LeBron or bust...Conversation got off course..no big deal...

My point was/is we have options now. I'm not in the Lebron or bust camp.



Obviously I disagee...All those other players aren't good options and are not worst the investment in my opinion...
holfresh
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2/27/2010  10:12 PM
Just not worth the investment...
arkrud
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2/27/2010  10:27 PM
If somebody think that what happeneds in NBA in general and in NY specifically is for fans pleasure he is delusional.
The agents, GMs, owners, and coaches have their own game and fans satisfaction is out of consideration.
So they will do what they will found colectively beneficial for them.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
djsunyc
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2/27/2010  10:30 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

knicks already had zach randolph who's better than amare.

now, probably couldn't get somebody individually as good as joe or wade but if they spent money, they could've added a group of players that would've made a quality impact. just look at what happened this deadline - could've had butler + haywood for nothing. butler + zach + haywood is a strong frontcourt.

Childs2Dudley
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2/27/2010  10:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/27/2010  10:32 PM
djsunyc wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

knicks already had zach randolph who's better than amare.

now, probably couldn't get somebody individually as good as joe or wade but if they spent money, they could've added a group of players that would've made a quality impact. just look at what happened this deadline - could've had butler + haywood for nothing. butler + zach + haywood is a strong frontcourt.

You cannot win the title in this league without a superstar.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
holfresh
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2/27/2010  10:39 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

knicks already had zach randolph who's better than amare.

now, probably couldn't get somebody individually as good as joe or wade but if they spent money, they could've added a group of players that would've made a quality impact. just look at what happened this deadline - could've had butler + haywood for nothing. butler + zach + haywood is a strong frontcourt.

You cannot win the title in this league without a superstar.

Not unless ur the Detroit Pistons...

Childs2Dudley
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2/27/2010  11:03 PM
holfresh wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

knicks already had zach randolph who's better than amare.

now, probably couldn't get somebody individually as good as joe or wade but if they spent money, they could've added a group of players that would've made a quality impact. just look at what happened this deadline - could've had butler + haywood for nothing. butler + zach + haywood is a strong frontcourt.

You cannot win the title in this league without a superstar.

Not unless ur the Detroit Pistons...

Love the people that use this example over and over and over again as if it is the norm.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
holfresh
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2/27/2010  11:16 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
djsunyc wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

knicks already had zach randolph who's better than amare.

now, probably couldn't get somebody individually as good as joe or wade but if they spent money, they could've added a group of players that would've made a quality impact. just look at what happened this deadline - could've had butler + haywood for nothing. butler + zach + haywood is a strong frontcourt.

You cannot win the title in this league without a superstar.

Not unless ur the Detroit Pistons...

Love the people that use this example over and over and over again as if it is the norm.

Not the norm but teams have done it...NY Knicks, Portland Trailblazerrs, Seattle Supersonics, Golden State Warriors...

Pharzeone
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2/27/2010  11:26 PM
As much as they try to reshape the image of that 69-70 team. It had stars in the likes of Reed and Clyde, Lenny Wilkens was at the top of the game when he won. Walton was the man on that Blazer team before his injuries. GS had Rick Barry who was still going strong.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
holfresh
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2/27/2010  11:31 PM
Pharzeone wrote:As much as they try to reshape the image of that 69-70 team. It had stars in the likes of Reed and Clyde, Lenny Wilkens was at the top of the game when he won. Walton was the man on that Blazer team before his injuries. GS had Rick Barry who was still going strong.

True, very true but susperstars, not in the sense of what we consider today...Was thinking of Gus Williams, Freddy Brown, and Marin Webster Sonics...Walton was good in the day but superstar of how we think of one, naw...

BRIGGS
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2/27/2010  11:58 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

Narrow minded--if we spend two max contracts to be married to J Johnson and Stoudemire--remember thats it---minimum players and Gallo douglas and Chandler--thats the team. We still wont have a C we still wont have a PG were shaky etc...... and forget this Wade stuff--the guy has like a 15 mm dollar beach house--you have to be kidding me.

Holfresh is right on the upper end stuff Lebron or bust. I think everything has to be evaluated and reasoned right now. I think they should put up 10-15 different models of what could be IF we dont get LBJ-- we need a good C or atleast a guy who can play 7 feet tall Two max FA are OK if LBJ if not--it's suicide for 5 years.

RIP Crushalot😞
TheGame
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2/28/2010  8:39 AM
djsunyc wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:LOL @ that narrow-minded thinking. Joe Johnson and Amare or Joe Johnson/Bosh or Wade/Bosh or Wade/Boozer would more than justify what they gave up.

Now any combination of Lee, Rudy Gay and Carlos Boozer wouldn't.

knicks already had zach randolph who's better than amare.

now, probably couldn't get somebody individually as good as joe or wade but if they spent money, they could've added a group of players that would've made a quality impact. just look at what happened this deadline - could've had butler + haywood for nothing. butler + zach + haywood is a strong frontcourt.

For the ripping of Randolph, that team was 6-5 before Walsh made the trade. Imagine if we had kept Randolph and just traded Crawford. We would be a playoff team right now and still might have been able to sign a max FA. I said when we traded him that Randolph had really started to turn his game around and was not the cancer people assumed him to be. He was an immature kid, but he grew up and was becoming more of a professional basketball player. IMO he is probably better than Amare or Lee and we gave him up for nothing.

Trust the Process
Uptown
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2/28/2010  9:38 AM
holfresh wrote:Just not worth the investment...

Instead of playing monday morning quarterback, what do suggest for the Knicks moving forward if we dont land Lebron? The trade is done.

Uptown
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2/28/2010  9:43 AM
TheGame wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Really, we are trading draft picks for TMac, Joe Johnson, Mike Miller and Jamaine O'Neal...really...So why fire Isiah??

That's is my thought exactly. If this was Walsh's plan, we would have been better off with IT. He at least would have drafted a PG in the draft.

While Isiah added to the salary-cap, Walsh has did the impossible according to some, just 2 years ago, and gotten us under the cap. We now have options. No comparisons thier. Walsh also said on WFAN with Mike Fransesca that he would not be looking for mediocre talent to compensate for missing out on max players....We shall see but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt because unlike our previous front office people, Walsh has laid down a plan and has stuck to it.

A plan I would sign on for...

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