TMS wrote:

how about u answer my question & not act like a douche? Dionte Christmas was a talented scorer in college & could have helped our need for size at the SG position all year... why didn't we take a look at him? what the hell is Donnie Walsh's fascination for undersized SG's who can't shoot? why is Jonathan Bender a Knick when he can barely run up & down the court? someone like Josh Heytvelt wouldn't have been a better option if you wanted a bigman who can shoot the rock? u telling me there aren't better players out there to be signed on veteran's minimum deals than the scrubs Donnie's pulled in since he's been our GM? please.

Jonathan Bender sucks. But he's a friend of Walsh's so he was given a shot. Big deal.

Dionte Christmas? Josh Heyvelt? Come'on. You're just naming more scrubs that if we had signed them - then - you'd be upset with the fact they suck.

You're bashing Donnie Walsh for signing one scrub but passing on another in a season when the BIG plan was to just dump salary.

Really?

There's got to be a better fight than this to take on.

Come'on. You think any of those guys would have changed the course of our season? I don't think so.

It is what it is. Forget the last two years. They were spent tearing down Isiah's mistakes. Nothing more.

It's all about building a new team starting July 2010 and nothing else.

Time to stop discussing the past. Besides, I'm sure there will be mistakes made in the future worth harping on.

lol.

Cosmic wrote:

TMS wrote:

how about u answer my question & not act like a douche? Dionte Christmas was a talented scorer in college & could have helped our need for size at the SG position all year... why didn't we take a look at him? what the hell is Donnie Walsh's fascination for undersized SG's who can't shoot? why is Jonathan Bender a Knick when he can barely run up & down the court? someone like Josh Heytvelt wouldn't have been a better option if you wanted a bigman who can shoot the rock? u telling me there aren't better players out there to be signed on veteran's minimum deals than the scrubs Donnie's pulled in since he's been our GM? please.

Jonathan Bender sucks. But he's a friend of Walsh's so he was given a shot. Big deal.

Dionte Christmas? Josh Heyvelt? Come'on. You're just naming more scrubs that if we had signed them - then - you'd be upset with the fact they suck.

You're bashing Donnie Walsh for signing one scrub but passing on another in a season when the BIG plan was to just dump salary.

Really?

There's got to be a better fight than this to take on.

Come'on. You think any of those guys would have changed the course of our season? I don't think so.

It is what it is. Forget the last two years. They were spent tearing down Isiah's mistakes. Nothing more.

It's all about building a new team starting July 2010 and nothing else.

Time to stop discussing the past. Besides, I'm sure there will be mistakes made in the future worth harping on.

lol.

dude, u posted a list of his moves & i'm commenting on it.... if u don't wanna discuss the past then why did u post this thread to begin with?

what does Donnie's FA signings have to do with tearing down Isiah's mess? absolutely nothing... he missed on every FA signing he's made since he's been here & that's not something to instill confidence for this summer, that's my point.

TMS wrote:

dude, u posted a list of his moves & i'm commenting on it.... if u don't wanna discuss the past then why did u post this thread to begin with?

what does Donnie's FA signings have to do with tearing down Isiah's mess? absolutely nothing... he missed on every FA signing he's made since he's been here & that's not something to instill confidence for this summer, that's my point.

I created the thread to show the entire list of transactions Donnie Walsh made in an effort to tear down Isiah's mistakes. Nothing more.

I think it illustrates beautifully what it takes for any GM to come in and tear down someone elses' mess. And believe me, Isiah's mess was record breaking salary mistakes.

The points you are harping on are low level meaningless points in my opinion. Situations where Donnie knew he was only signing stop gaps that wouldn't exceed his 2010 plan. You're upset over one scrub being signed over another scrub. You're upset over a scrub being signed over a mysterious well skilled player you (or Briggs, or anyone who opposes this plan) can't seem to name.

So I don't know what the intent is.

Cosmic wrote:Donnie's signings have everything to do with tearing down Isiah's mess. They were not to interfere with the 2010 plan no matter what.

doing nothing accomplishes the same thing... Donnie spent millions of dollars signing FA's he thought could help this franchise... they didn't... minor signings most, but Chris Duhon has not been a minor signing, we spent over $11 million ($22 million if u count the luxury expenditures) on him & he clearly has not been the answer... go ahead & gloss over all these "minor mistakes" if u wish, just because the plan has been for 2010 doesn't mean you're allowed to make stupid signings in the meantime & be absolved completely of any fault.

there isn't anything major to quibble over other than this T-Mac trade he just made because he hasn't made any other moves except for these scrub signings for us to discuss... at this point i don't think i'll be happy w/the job he's done as our GM until we land Lebron James this summer... if we land him that is... a few days ago it wasn't Lebron or bust for me, but after this trade it most certainly is.

Cosmic wrote:

TheGame wrote:THis thread should be "How to tear down a disaster capped out roster with no hope in 2 years by trading away all your draft picks"

The plan was to build through free agency.

The PICK is inconsequential. Again, THE PICK. Not "pickS"

2011 SWAP.
2012 PICK.
JORDAN HILL.

Not 3 picks. Not 3 lotto picks.
Not 2 picks. Not 2 lotto picks.
A 2011 SWAP - contingent on the records of the Rockets and Knicks.
A 2012 PICK that goes to Houston (ONE PICK). One. 1. Whose place is dependent on the Knicks record.

We don't make the deal we are a perrenial 35 win team. What do 35 win teams win in the draft year after year? Yeah, Sweetney, Hill, Frye.

We're seeking FRANCHISE BUILDING BLOCKS. And we're doing it through FREE AGENCY.

Not banking on some future 2012 pick.

If you're banking on building an elite team off of a mid lotto 2011 and 2012 pick, well, to be kind I have no idea what to tell you except that you're wrong to think that's possible.

Boy cos, you are on a got damn roll in this thread.. (running to get my popcorn and soft drink).. OK continue bro... hahahahahaha

tkf wrote:

TMS wrote:

Cosmic wrote:Donnie's signings have everything to do with tearing down Isiah's mess. They were not to interfere with the 2010 plan no matter what.

doing nothing accomplishes the same thing... Donnie spent millions of dollars signing FA's he thought could help this franchise... they didn't... minor signings most, but Chris Duhon has not been a minor signing, we spent over $11 million ($22 million if u count the luxury expenditures) on him & he clearly has not been the answer... go ahead & gloss over all these "minor mistakes" if u wish, just because the plan has been for 2010 doesn't mean you're allowed to make stupid signings in the meantime & be absolved completely of any fault.

good point TMS.. both you and cos are making some solid points here...

I think not doing anything was part of the 2010 plan though TMS. Why fill up the roster with mediocre talent?

Again I keep wondering about the players you feel we missed out on. There really wasn't much out there. If there was something better than Duhon we would have signed him.

As I have said in the past, the roster that Walsh walked into when he took the job, was not a roster that made you go "Wow, this is pretty good, let me ADD TO IT, and that will put it over the top."

For, that was never going to happen. Isiah tried and tried with MLEs and trades and the same result was we were a 23-33 win team. That there is proof that the foundation/core of the team was one you couldn't add to with success.

So what you do is tear it down. In the meantime you don't leave yourself entirely gutted you try to add a few players who can at least play the game and not interfere with your bigger plan of 2010 cap space.

And that's what he did.

Was watching the losing fun? No.

But if Walsh didn't do the sidestep moves along the way we'd look like the 5-50 Nets right now. Now, that would have been something worth being really upset over.

This...this team...last year and this year...frustrating but it didn't upset me because I see what Walsh wants to do and I believe in it.

I don't know the final outcome of what begins in 2010 but I do know regardless of that outcome this is the path we had to take as a franchise.

Had to tear that roster down to the bottom. Had to. There was nothing there to add to. Nothing. Outside of Lee, Gallo, Chandler, Douglas there is nothing of value now, nor the day Walsh arrived, that any GM would keep and try to build around.

We're on the right path. Where it winds up nobody knows but WE ARE ON THE RIGHT PATH.

http://www.sportscity.com/NBA/NBA-Free-Agents-2008/

Anthony Johnson signed a 2 year contract for $3.8 million with Orlando that summer... Donnie signed Chris Duhon to 2 years $11 million... who do you think was the better value?

Carlos Arroyo signed a contract to play in Israel with opt outs after each season in case an NBA team wanted to sign him... coulda easily signed him on a 1 year deal at minimum dollars if we wanted a stop gap PG, no?

or here's a novel idea, how about drafting a PG & actually letting him play? if we were going to suck anyways, mine as well develop a young guy, no? i know MDA is allergic to such endeavors but this would seem to make sense on a rebuilding team... seeing as though you like to stress the point that this has been a rebuilding situation for the past 2 years, wouldn't that have been the logical direction to go in rather than spending $22 million including luxury tax expenditures on a PG who was only going to be a stopgap solution anyways?

Cosmic wrote:

TheGame wrote:THis thread should be "How to tear down a disaster capped out roster with no hope in 2 years by trading away all your draft picks"

The plan was to build through free agency.

The PICK is inconsequential. Again, THE PICK. Not "pickS"

2011 SWAP.
2012 PICK.
JORDAN HILL.

Not 3 picks. Not 3 lotto picks.
Not 2 picks. Not 2 lotto picks.
A 2011 SWAP - contingent on the records of the Rockets and Knicks.
A 2012 PICK that goes to Houston (ONE PICK). One. 1. Whose place is dependent on the Knicks record.

We don't make the deal we are a perrenial 35 win team. What do 35 win teams win in the draft year after year? Yeah, Sweetney, Hill, Frye.

We're seeking FRANCHISE BUILDING BLOCKS. And we're doing it through FREE AGENCY.

Not banking on some future 2012 pick.

If you're banking on building an elite team off of a mid lotto 2011 and 2012 pick, well, to be kind I have no idea what to tell you except that you're wrong to think that's possible.

Walsh has just essentially made the exact same trade IT made 4 years ago. In fact, in throwing in Hill, Walshes trade is even worse. Except whereas IT traded for an actual player who he thought would become a cornerstone of our franchise, Walsh has traded for cap space and the 50% chance (at best) that Lebron wants to leave Cleveland and play in NY. If this was his plan all along, then why not trade Nate and Jeffries last year when it would not have cost us nearly as much. It was poor planning and the only thing that can save this disaster in the making is if McGrady returns to near-all star form and he can entice Lebron and Bosh to come here.

TheGame wrote:

Walsh has just essentially made the exact same trade IT made 4 years ago. In fact, in throwing in Hill, Walshes trade is even worse. Except whereas IT traded for an actual player who he thought would become a cornerstone of our franchise, Walsh has traded for cap space and the 50% chance (at best) that Lebron wants to leave Cleveland and play in NY. If this was his plan all along, then why not trade Nate and Jeffries last year when it would not have cost us nearly as much. It was poor planning and the only thing that can save this disaster in the making is if McGrady returns to near-all star form and he can entice Lebron and Bosh to come here.

Why do I have to keep explaining that Isiah threw in picks to acquire long term contracts that turned out to be terrible players who destroyed our flexibility ---- WHERE Walsh made the pick trades to CREATE infinite flexibility --- AND that flexibility will turn out to be players who make us a good team --- who could entirely invalidate the 2011 swap --- and make the 2012 pick at the best a late teens pick --- and that Jordan Hill is a scrub?

TMac is now the key to LeBron? No. No he isn't.

I expect the guy to go down in a heap once again and get waived at the end of the year. He was here to dump Jeffries and be given a look-see the same way Donnie gave Wilcox, Hughes, Darko look-sees, and the same way hes going to give House a look-see.

Nothing more.