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The "Fix" has to be in....
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loweyecue
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2/17/2010  6:50 PM
Thank you very valid post and yes they are all legit players and lets call them that. I am objecting to the "all star" label because to me it carries a lot of weight which may not be justified. Wasn't trying to pick on the players you listed but on the importance of the "all star" label.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
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Uptown
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2/17/2010  6:54 PM
holfresh wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:MDA's plan is to wait for Lebron, Wade & Bosh to get here so he can show how great of a coach he is.

why does it work like that? if the plan is to get superstars who cares how the guy coaches without them, you should only care how about he's going to coach with them.

that's the point... i don't like how he's been coaching this team this year...he's coaching this team like waiting for 3 Allstars to get here is his plan... he doesn't give a sheit about the guys on expiring contracts like he supposedly says he is... he doesn't give a sheit about developing the young guys like he says he is either... his goal is fixed on getting 2 headliner stars in here this summer to run his system... that's why he's been playing Fishlips 35+ a night hoping he could find some sucker out there who would take him off our hands... are u kidding me? we're talking about FISHLIPS here brah! did i not tell u i thought this would be a fruitless endeavor trying to pump up his trade value all this time & we should have been playing the young guys instead?

is it wrong for me to expect MDA to do his job & coach these guys to get them to try their best during games in the 2 years he's been here before 2010 rolls around, or should we all just give him a pass for however this team plays til then & just chalk it up to Isiah's mess? didn't Donnie & MDA choose Gallo & Jordan Hill? why are those 2 guys not the focal point of this offense? why is Duhon running the cot dayam pick & roll with David Lee on every single damn possession? is that the innovative system that MDA wanted to implement when he came here?

what, i'm supposed to just accept the fact that he's playing favorites with certain guys & alienating other guys? do u see the way this team has played this season? don't tell me it's a product of the talent on the floor... they look like they don't give a crap... they were 2 games back in the playoff race & what do they do? instead of buckling down & playing hard for 48 minutes every night, they lay down & play like beaten dogs... last night's game was not an aberration, it's been the norm around here for weeks! the trade rumors are not the reason why these guys are playing like crap, they gave up on their head coach a long time ago... u telling me MDA doesn't deserve any blame for that? it pisses me off that Jordan Hill got no burn in his time here... it pisses me off that we spent $3 million bucks & a guaranteed rookie contract to get Toney Douglas & he hasn't seen any playing time... i don't like the fact that Nate, Hughes & Darko were all alienated completely by our head coach this season when i thought all of were better players than some of the other guys getting burn (Duhon, Fishlips, Bender)... sorry but i can't give MDA a pass.

i get your point bro, but reality is reality, MDA wasn't brought here to coach in 2008 or 2009, he was brought here to coach in 2010 and beyond. we can complain all we want about his coaching in those years, but it doesn't matter, he was brought here to coach in 2010. is it a black eye for d'antoni that he didn't coach that well those two years? yeah it probably is, but the fact of the matter is that NO ONE will remember those two years if/when the knicks get the guys in here that they think they'll get in here and if/when they do get those guys, im extremely confident in his ability to coach them/that team.

The idea that MDA can't coach unless he has his players, which is 3 or 4 all stars with the right temperament, is insane to me...Listen, all coaches wants all stars to show how good they are...The fact that he had 4 all star caliber guys playing for him in PHX does not set the bar of fair judgment on him only when he gets such caliber players are on his team again...Until then we can only fairly judge him again???..Insanity...

It's akin to only judging him on his 12-6 run in dec/jan and thinking that was the norm and not an aberration...I'll let u in on something, having 4 all star caliber players on your roster is also an aberration...

Can the same be said about Phil Jackson? Nort only did Phil always have allstars, but he's always had the best player in the league where ever he went. Wonder why Phil turned down an offer to coach the Knicks?

TMS
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2/17/2010  6:58 PM
loweyecue wrote:Exactly what is "all star" calibre? Is AI all star caliber player now? KG based on his performance this year?Why does everybody attach so much value to this completely illogical selection perpetuated by mass voting from the mindless masses? Why is it even considered a "level" of its own to achieve "all star" status when all you are doing is winning a rigged popularity contest? You guys keep talking about All stars like they mean something. I don't get it.

Allstar calibre means players who are deserving of consideration for Allstar status... Joe Johnson was a 20 ppg scorer on a 54 win team in Phoenix... that to me is an Allstar calibre player... MDA had Amare, JJ, Nash & Marion all in their primes when those teams were winning... are we supposed to wait til we get 4 Allstar calibre guys in NY before we can fairly judge MDA? there's nothing wrong w/being patient on a team lacking in talent, but the way this team has played this season & the body language you can see in these players is very telling... it's not the W-L record as much as it's the way they've been losing these games that's more telling... none of them give a crap about this season... everyone's out to get their own cuz there is no sense of team or chemistry... for a team that's basically been playing together for the past 3 years don't u think there should be at least some improvement in continuity while working the offense? in many ways i think this team has regressed, & i didn't even think that was possible.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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2/17/2010  7:01 PM
Uptown wrote:Can the same be said about Phil Jackson? Nort only did Phil always have allstars, but he's always had the best player in the league where ever he went. Wonder why Phil turned down an offer to coach the Knicks?

absolutely the same can be said about Jax & the same HAS been said about Jax... he's always been known as the coach who needed to have the best players in the game on his team in order to win, & he's never accepted a coaching job unless he had that in place... u can't argue w/his rings but i would not say he's proven himself as the best coach of alltime... i give coaches who are able to take a team with lesser talent to play above their heads more credit than i do coaches who can succeed with 3 or 4 Allstar players on their rosters personally.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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2/17/2010  7:05 PM
eViL wrote:
TMS wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:MDA's plan is to wait for Lebron, Wade & Bosh to get here so he can show how great of a coach he is.

why does it work like that? if the plan is to get superstars who cares how the guy coaches without them, you should only care how about he's going to coach with them.

that's the point... i don't like how he's been coaching this team this year...he's coaching this team like waiting for 3 Allstars to get here is his plan... he doesn't give a sheit about the guys on expiring contracts like he supposedly says he is... he doesn't give a sheit about developing the young guys like he says he is either... his goal is fixed on getting 2 headliner stars in here this summer to run his system... that's why he's been playing Fishlips 35+ a night hoping he could find some sucker out there who would take him off our hands... are u kidding me? we're talking about FISHLIPS here brah! did i not tell u i thought this would be a fruitless endeavor trying to pump up his trade value all this time & we should have been playing the young guys instead?

is it wrong for me to expect MDA to do his job & coach these guys to get them to try their best during games in the 2 years he's been here before 2010 rolls around, or should we all just give him a pass for however this team plays til then & just chalk it up to Isiah's mess? didn't Donnie & MDA choose Gallo & Jordan Hill? why are those 2 guys not the focal point of this offense? why is Duhon running the cot dayam pick & roll with David Lee on every single damn possession? is that the innovative system that MDA wanted to implement when he came here?

what, i'm supposed to just accept the fact that he's playing favorites with certain guys & alienating other guys? do u see the way this team has played this season? don't tell me it's a product of the talent on the floor... they look like they don't give a crap... they were 2 games back in the playoff race & what do they do? instead of buckling down & playing hard for 48 minutes every night, they lay down & play like beaten dogs... last night's game was not an aberration, it's been the norm around here for weeks! the trade rumors are not the reason why these guys are playing like crap, they gave up on their head coach a long time ago... u telling me MDA doesn't deserve any blame for that? it pisses me off that Jordan Hill got no burn in his time here... it pisses me off that we spent $3 million bucks & a guaranteed rookie contract to get Toney Douglas & he hasn't seen any playing time... i don't like the fact that Nate, Hughes & Darko were all alienated completely by our head coach this season when i thought all of were better players than some of the other guys getting burn (Duhon, Fishlips, Bender)... sorry but i can't give MDA a pass.

i understand frustration with MDA's rotations. i find them to be strange as well. but at the end of the day, the team was projecting to get roughly 30 wins. isn't that what most realistic fans predicted to start the season? 30-35 wins. as far as i'm concerned, if the wins end up in the 30-35 range, then that's not bad coaching. it's not great coaching either, but it's not like they were slated for playoffs and his rotations took them out of it.

i'm not blaming the team's record on his rotations, i'm blaming the coach for a lot of the unnecessary drama & the fact that our rooks got zero play this season & wasting a year trying to pump up Fishlips' trade value while sacrificing Jordan Hill's development... i fully expected this team to be around 35 wins this season (looks like we'll fall short of that expectation)... but even so i'm not blaming MDA for us having a bad team... i just don't like the complete lack of fight i'm seeing in these guys & i think MDA has a lot to do with it personally

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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2/17/2010  7:08 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:MDA's plan is to wait for Lebron, Wade & Bosh to get here so he can show how great of a coach he is.

why does it work like that? if the plan is to get superstars who cares how the guy coaches without them, you should only care how about he's going to coach with them.

that's the point... i don't like how he's been coaching this team this year...he's coaching this team like waiting for 3 Allstars to get here is his plan... he doesn't give a sheit about the guys on expiring contracts like he supposedly says he is... he doesn't give a sheit about developing the young guys like he says he is either... his goal is fixed on getting 2 headliner stars in here this summer to run his system... that's why he's been playing Fishlips 35+ a night hoping he could find some sucker out there who would take him off our hands... are u kidding me? we're talking about FISHLIPS here brah! did i not tell u i thought this would be a fruitless endeavor trying to pump up his trade value all this time & we should have been playing the young guys instead?

is it wrong for me to expect MDA to do his job & coach these guys to get them to try their best during games in the 2 years he's been here before 2010 rolls around, or should we all just give him a pass for however this team plays til then & just chalk it up to Isiah's mess? didn't Donnie & MDA choose Gallo & Jordan Hill? why are those 2 guys not the focal point of this offense? why is Duhon running the cot dayam pick & roll with David Lee on every single damn possession? is that the innovative system that MDA wanted to implement when he came here?

what, i'm supposed to just accept the fact that he's playing favorites with certain guys & alienating other guys? do u see the way this team has played this season? don't tell me it's a product of the talent on the floor... they look like they don't give a crap... they were 2 games back in the playoff race & what do they do? instead of buckling down & playing hard for 48 minutes every night, they lay down & play like beaten dogs... last night's game was not an aberration, it's been the norm around here for weeks! the trade rumors are not the reason why these guys are playing like crap, they gave up on their head coach a long time ago... u telling me MDA doesn't deserve any blame for that? it pisses me off that Jordan Hill got no burn in his time here... it pisses me off that we spent $3 million bucks & a guaranteed rookie contract to get Toney Douglas & he hasn't seen any playing time... i don't like the fact that Nate, Hughes & Darko were all alienated completely by our head coach this season when i thought all of were better players than some of the other guys getting burn (Duhon, Fishlips, Bender)... sorry but i can't give MDA a pass.

i get your point bro, but reality is reality, MDA wasn't brought here to coach in 2008 or 2009, he was brought here to coach in 2010 and beyond. we can complain all we want about his coaching in those years, but it doesn't matter, he was brought here to coach in 2010. is it a black eye for d'antoni that he didn't coach that well those two years? yeah it probably is, but the fact of the matter is that NO ONE will remember those two years if/when the knicks get the guys in here that they think they'll get in here and if/when they do get those guys, im extremely confident in his ability to coach them/that team.

bro, don't u think if 08 & 09 didn't matter in the grand scheme of things, that he should have been playing our rooks all year then? or were Jordan Hill & TD just drafted to be fodder for trades later? & even if that were the case, wouldn't it have been in our best interests to play those kids & raise their value? do u think if Jordan Hill had been getting regular burn this season we'd be talking about throwing him & 2 potential future picks away to dump Fishlips' contract right now? i don't

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
CrushAlot
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2/17/2010  7:12 PM
D'Antoni's record when he doesn't have Steve Nash is 86-159. That is a significant body of work and a significant amount of ineffective coaching.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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2/17/2010  7:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:D'Antoni's record when he doesn't have Steve Nash is 86-159. That is a significant body of work and a significant amount of ineffective coaching.

but... but... we went 9-6 in December!

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
loweyecue
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2/17/2010  8:27 PM
TMS wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Exactly what is "all star" calibre? Is AI all star caliber player now? KG based on his performance this year?Why does everybody attach so much value to this completely illogical selection perpetuated by mass voting from the mindless masses? Why is it even considered a "level" of its own to achieve "all star" status when all you are doing is winning a rigged popularity contest? You guys keep talking about All stars like they mean something. I don't get it.

Allstar calibre means players who are deserving of consideration for Allstar status... Joe Johnson was a 20 ppg scorer on a 54 win team in Phoenix... that to me is an Allstar calibre player... MDA had Amare, JJ, Nash & Marion all in their primes when those teams were winning... are we supposed to wait til we get 4 Allstar calibre guys in NY before we can fairly judge MDA? there's nothing wrong w/being patient on a team lacking in talent, but the way this team has played this season & the body language you can see in these players is very telling... it's not the W-L record as much as it's the way they've been losing these games that's more telling... none of them give a crap about this season... everyone's out to get their own cuz there is no sense of team or chemistry... for a team that's basically been playing together for the past 3 years don't u think there should be at least some improvement in continuity while working the offense? in many ways i think this team has regressed, & i didn't even think that was possible.

No you can judge MDA all you want. But what other coaches have succeeded in doing what you describe? LB in Charlotte and Adelman withe Rockets would be the only two this season? We already saw how one of those same coaches fared here. It is OK to discuss them in general terms but when put in context of the Knicks I don't see how you can say they would do better. The evidence that we do have points in the opposite direction. They would have developed the youth etc may be valid arguments but LB didn't get any better chemistry from this team than MDA has, if anything he totally botched it. You were vocal against Hughes continued benching, do you think T-Mac's benching in Houston was justified? Why are they so different? I am sure there are case to case differences but wasn't the larger picture the same? Selfish players playing badly got benched. So they have winning record and we don't. If Houston was losing would that justify putting T-Mac back on?

Anyway just trying to raise some questions here and point out that things are not always what they seem to be. There aren't any coaches that were available then with a proven track record that would have done any better here. Personally I am glad we didn't get Mark Jackson as coach. There will always be another what-if scenario (just ask Briggs) but sooner or later you gotta realize we can't change the past and at any given time we should focus on the best step forward given what we DO have.If we make good decisions sooner or later they will pay off. To me MDA over MJax was and still is a good decision. Many will disagree. Not all decisions pay off, but you always take he highest percentage move and you take your losses on the chin.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
TMS
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2/17/2010  8:51 PM
You were vocal against Hughes continued benching, do you think T-Mac's benching in Houston was justified? Why are they so different? I am sure there are case to case differences but wasn't the larger picture the same? Selfish players playing badly got benched. So they have winning record and we don't. If Houston was losing would that justify putting T-Mac back on?

the difference is that T-Mac was injured, not benched... Adelman didn't want to mess w/the chemistry he has going w/the current rotation so he was reluctant to put T-Mac back in there... Hughes was trying to come back from injury & struggled so he got benched... the team was actually playing its best basketball of the season when he was a main part of the rotation if you remember... then the team started to struggle while Hughes was out & MDA went back to Hughes & they continued to struggle... the difference is Adelman has his team winning doing things his way while MDA has his team playing like guys who packed it in a long time ago doing things his.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
The "Fix" has to be in....

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