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Zach and Crawford trades
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EnySpree
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WTF?!?!?!
Should have just held on to them cuz the Knicks miss their production
They had to go for cap reasons
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bitty41
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2/8/2010  4:57 PM
Nalod wrote:
bitty41 wrote:
bitty - glad you joined. what's your take on comparing zach to lee? see what i said above? curious to get your persepctive.

Zach is just an unrelenting production guy it doesn't matter the situation good team bad team he will put up numbers. Whereas Lee imo if he was playing alongside a dynamic center his numbers wouldn't be as high and also he is the Knicks number 1 option. Nonetheless I would be happy with either guy on my team Lee gets a lot of hate around sometimes from fans because there is no middle ground you either have to be great or Knick fans want you traded every other week.

Good take. DLee is putting up some fat numbers this year but the ball goes thu him now and I give the guy a lot of credit. But on a good team his touches (we talking DLee)will drop as will his production.

But I wonder from a chemistry stand point if this is not the kind of guy you want feeding your superstars (providing we land one). With a guy like that around, might it make Lebron even more effective as he won't have to carry the load all the time?

Wow, Im promoting Dlee or promoting the possibility of one plus one equal three?

ANd, if you have Zach dominationg the ball, would DLee be as developed at this point? Dlee took off when ZDumb left.

Zdump and Eddy together was a disaster if you anyone recalls. Dlee and Eddy did work pretty good back when Eddy would get out of bed.

But what's the point of even mentioning Eddy at this point the guy will be lucky to be in the NBA after his contract expires. D Lee puts the Knicks in a weird situation because are they going to be willing to pay him come this summer? Knick fans have already shown their true colors: your okay until you start asking for too much money.
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BasketballJones
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2/8/2010  6:16 PM
The team was unbalanced and expensive. I'm not saying it's Crawford or Randolph's fault - I've always felt those guys could be good in the right situation. But the way things were with them - with the team Zeke built - we had the same crappy record, but we were in salary cap hell, with limited flexibility. Now we're supposedly going to be in a position to sign someone really good next year. Sounds good to me - let's try something different this time. Ten years of overpaying and building unbalanced teams didn't work.
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Marv
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2/8/2010  6:26 PM
none of this would have happened if we had just picked up marcus fizer.
kam77
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2/8/2010  6:54 PM
Dlee was only averaging 9pts 9rebs before Z-Bo was traded.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Papabear
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2/8/2010  7:19 PM
knickstorrents wrote:Knicks don't need scorers, we need defenders... zach and jamal are of no help to this squad! They are good for the situations that they are in... Jamal is a 6th man scorer and plays with a stud Josh Smith that is the youngest person ever to get 1000 blocks...

Zach plays with a stud named Marc Gasol who is averaging more than 1.5 blocks per game.

They are good for the teams they are in. They are not good for the Knicks.

Papabear Says

The is a sick answer. That,s why we are where we are today. We got rid of two players who could have grown together. You refuse to give Zack his props. So of you guy wouldn't know a good player if it hit you in the face. I don't mean to be rude but if we had kept Zack and Crawford we would have a team winning 50 games. We got rid of them and we still have no defense . Next year this time I;m afraid we will still be a 25 win team per year. Lebron can't save this team and neither can bosh save this team.

Papabear
Papabear
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2/8/2010  7:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/8/2010  7:27 PM
knickstorrents wrote:Don't get fooled by Zach's production. He doesn't really net you possessions... he has very low steals/blocks numbers... he also doesn't assist so he doesn't raise your team's effective field goal percentage... only thing that can be said for Zach is that he has a decent mid range jumper.. but DLee is catching up to that as well. Also he's a black hole... the ball does not move with him... the offense flows much better with DLee.

Papabear Says

Zack and Crawford will be in the playoffs and we will be sitting here at home. Fry will be in the playoffs and we will be sitting at home. Ariza will be in the playoffs and we will be sitting at home. need I say any more? This is a bad team and Gallo will be an ok player but don't look for a superstar.

Papabear
TMS
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2/8/2010  7:27 PM
Papabear wrote:I don't mean to be rude but if we had kept Zack and Crawford we would have a team winning 50 games.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sidsanders
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2/8/2010  7:47 PM
Papabear wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:Don't get fooled by Zach's production. He doesn't really net you possessions... he has very low steals/blocks numbers... he also doesn't assist so he doesn't raise your team's effective field goal percentage... only thing that can be said for Zach is that he has a decent mid range jumper.. but DLee is catching up to that as well. Also he's a black hole... the ball does not move with him... the offense flows much better with DLee.

Papabear Says

Zack and Crawford will be in the playoffs and we will be sitting here at home. Fry will be in the playoffs and we will be sitting at home. Ariza will be in the playoffs and we will be sitting at home. need I say any more? This is a bad team and Gallo will be an ok player but don't look for a superstar.

so lets fire up the truck and get the band back together?? this team was goin no place, and still may not be. because these guys who didnt work out here are part of BETTER teams means we would have been better? is it a shock jc didnt push the nyk's over to being a playoff team? enough with living in a bad past. you wanna relive the past, lets relive the ewing era!!! at least those teams seemed like they had a shot.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
sidsanders
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2/8/2010  7:48 PM
TMS wrote:
Papabear wrote:I don't mean to be rude but if we had kept Zack and Crawford we would have a team winning 50 games.

FIRST!!! errr... ib4tl

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
TMS
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2/8/2010  10:09 PM
i think if we hadn't made those trades, we'd be around a 39-42 win team right now, fighting for a #7 or 8 seed in the crappy Eastern Conference w/no cap space to even target a worthwhile FA this summer... i'd rather be where we are now than in that type of situation personally... at least we have some flexibility to make moves this summer, something we didn't have before... who cares if we make the playoffs w/Zach & Jamal here & get blown out in the 1st round by the Cavs, Magic or Celtics? haven't we already been down that road in '04? starphuching has never worked out for the Knicks' franchise... it was time to shift gears & try something else... as talented a player as Zach & Jamal are, they wouldn't have taken this franchise anywhere.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EnySpree
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2/9/2010  1:20 AM
I just think the trades were made in haste.....after the trades they ****ed 2 seasons for the fans....that's irresponsible regardless of the fact of why they did it.

Signing 2 stars.....yeah ok.....so what happens if those 2 stars don't leave their respective teams??? So you mean 2 seasons were wasted for nothing??? I bet the Knicks end up signing Joe Johnson and that's it...2 seasons ****ed just to get Joe johnson...

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sidsanders
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2/9/2010  1:27 AM
EnySpree wrote:I just think the trades were made in haste.....after the trades they ****ed 2 seasons for the fans....that's irresponsible regardless of the fact of why they did it.

Signing 2 stars.....yeah ok.....so what happens if those 2 stars don't leave their respective teams??? So you mean 2 seasons were wasted for nothing??? I bet the Knicks end up signing Joe Johnson and that's it...2 seasons ****ed just to get Joe johnson...

its wasted if they fail to play hill/td/landry and dont help chandler and dg get better. it would be wasted had they kept them... that team wasnt contending for a title.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
TMS
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2/9/2010  1:32 AM
really what they should have done is commit completely to a full rebuild & acquire any scrub expirings & picks for Jamal & Zach instead of looking to get guys who could still contribute that year... that would have accomplished 2 things:

1 - we would have ended up with a better draft position & probably landed ourselves our PG of the future in either Evans, Curry or Rubio.

2 - we would have had an extra pick to take a flyer on a sleeper prospect in the 2nd round, maybe someone like Jeff Pendegraphe, Chase Budinger or DeJuan Blair.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EnySpree
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2/9/2010  3:49 AM
sidsanders wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I just think the trades were made in haste.....after the trades they ****ed 2 seasons for the fans....that's irresponsible regardless of the fact of why they did it.

Signing 2 stars.....yeah ok.....so what happens if those 2 stars don't leave their respective teams??? So you mean 2 seasons were wasted for nothing??? I bet the Knicks end up signing Joe Johnson and that's it...2 seasons ****ed just to get Joe johnson...

its wasted if they fail to play hill/td/landry and dont help chandler and dg get better. it would be wasted had they kept them... that team wasnt contending for a title.

The current team isn't even contending for a roster spot next season, lol...its a joke...all for a shot at Lebron. The idea is to win a championship not turn MSG into a tickle train for Lebron James groupies...

They coulda kept Zach and Craw...Lee is getting better...they coulda signed Andre Miller and traded for more help.

Look at this roster:

pf: Zach
sf: Gallo
C : David Lee
PG: Andre Miller
SG: Crawford

Jared, Wilson, Nate, Marty Collins...and whoever else they could have gotten

You mean to tell me this team couldn't be a playoff team with D'antoni coaching them??? WTF!!!! I just pissed myself off!!!!!

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sidsanders
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2/9/2010  4:14 AM
EnySpree wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I just think the trades were made in haste.....after the trades they ****ed 2 seasons for the fans....that's irresponsible regardless of the fact of why they did it.

Signing 2 stars.....yeah ok.....so what happens if those 2 stars don't leave their respective teams??? So you mean 2 seasons were wasted for nothing??? I bet the Knicks end up signing Joe Johnson and that's it...2 seasons ****ed just to get Joe johnson...

its wasted if they fail to play hill/td/landry and dont help chandler and dg get better. it would be wasted had they kept them... that team wasnt contending for a title.

The current team isn't even contending for a roster spot next season, lol...its a joke...all for a shot at Lebron. The idea is to win a championship not turn MSG into a tickle train for Lebron James groupies...

They coulda kept Zach and Craw...Lee is getting better...they coulda signed Andre Miller and traded for more help.

Look at this roster:

pf: Zach
sf: Gallo
C : David Lee
PG: Andre Miller
SG: Crawford

Jared, Wilson, Nate, Marty Collins...and whoever else they could have gotten

You mean to tell me this team couldn't be a playoff team with D'antoni coaching them??? WTF!!!! I just pissed myself off!!!!!

playoffs, maybe. have a shot to win it all, no. this is like wizard fans clinging to arenas/butler/aj... its always some reason or a player thats gonna put the (mediocre) collective over the top and it never does. why beat yourself up over guys who just didnt work out here? all that would have done is delay what needs to happen, and this is where the current FO/coach i think have gone wrong: rebuild!! just do it already. making the plaoyffs with a modified roster, current or other, doesnt do much long term good.

lee is getting better cuz hes is in zr's role. if zr was still here who knows how lee would be doing. jc could score 20+ or under 10 (hmmmm, like we cant get that from nate?). the post def would be awful, like it isnt already... why keep trying to maintain anything from recent strategy of building around flawed players?

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Childs2Dudley
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2/9/2010  4:37 AM
EnySpree wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I just think the trades were made in haste.....after the trades they ****ed 2 seasons for the fans....that's irresponsible regardless of the fact of why they did it.

Signing 2 stars.....yeah ok.....so what happens if those 2 stars don't leave their respective teams??? So you mean 2 seasons were wasted for nothing??? I bet the Knicks end up signing Joe Johnson and that's it...2 seasons ****ed just to get Joe johnson...

its wasted if they fail to play hill/td/landry and dont help chandler and dg get better. it would be wasted had they kept them... that team wasnt contending for a title.

The current team isn't even contending for a roster spot next season, lol...its a joke...all for a shot at Lebron. The idea is to win a championship not turn MSG into a tickle train for Lebron James groupies...

They coulda kept Zach and Craw...Lee is getting better...they coulda signed Andre Miller and traded for more help.

Look at this roster:

pf: Zach
sf: Gallo
C : David Lee
PG: Andre Miller
SG: Crawford

Jared, Wilson, Nate, Marty Collins...and whoever else they could have gotten

You mean to tell me this team couldn't be a playoff team with D'antoni coaching them??? WTF!!!! I just pissed myself off!!!!!

no, it couldn't.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
SupremeCommander
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2/9/2010  7:28 AM
TMS wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:Everyone thought I was nuts when I said the team would be trash after those trades...

i was in full agreement w/u from the start... always knew those trades were salary dumps but people thought we actually got better from making those trades... the trades had to be made for cap purposes but the BS Walsh & MDA sold to the Knicks' fanbase that we were improving for a playoff run was laughable.

+1

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Marv
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2/9/2010  7:32 AM
EnySpree wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
EnySpree wrote:I just think the trades were made in haste.....after the trades they ****ed 2 seasons for the fans....that's irresponsible regardless of the fact of why they did it.

Signing 2 stars.....yeah ok.....so what happens if those 2 stars don't leave their respective teams??? So you mean 2 seasons were wasted for nothing??? I bet the Knicks end up signing Joe Johnson and that's it...2 seasons ****ed just to get Joe johnson...

its wasted if they fail to play hill/td/landry and dont help chandler and dg get better. it would be wasted had they kept them... that team wasnt contending for a title.

The current team isn't even contending for a roster spot next season, lol...its a joke...all for a shot at Lebron. The idea is to win a championship not turn MSG into a tickle train for Lebron James groupies...

They coulda kept Zach and Craw...Lee is getting better...they coulda signed Andre Miller and traded for more help.

Look at this roster:

pf: Zach
sf: Gallo
C : David Lee
PG: Andre Miller
SG: Crawford

Jared, Wilson, Nate, Marty Collins...and whoever else they could have gotten

You mean to tell me this team couldn't be a playoff team with D'antoni coaching them??? WTF!!!! I just pissed myself off!!!!!

that team could EASILY have been in the lotteryi., how many years did jamal give us empty offensive stats, volume outside bombing, no D? what kind of crap did zach play like in his one full year here? we'll never know, but i say that team would have laid an egg. i'd rather have the cap space.
BasketballJones
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2/9/2010  2:52 PM
When was it possible for us to sign Andre Miller? I must have missed that.
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TMS
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2/9/2010  2:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/9/2010  2:55 PM
BasketballJones wrote:When was it possible for us to sign Andre Miller? I must have missed that.

i'm guessing Eny means w/the MLE

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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