AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:This year has been very disappointing, but let's step back for a second and realize that if we had a good season from Duhon, heck even a good half of a season, this team would most likely have been in the playoffs. It wasn't going to take much to get in the playoffs this year, but without him playing well it wasn't gonna happen. Almost every team is gonna struggle without someone to lead the team on the floor. Not to mention we've got other problems.

Am I disappointed? YES! But we have to keep things in perspective cuz this is gonna be over soon and we'll be in full on rebuild mode.

We'd be in the playoffs if:

- Robinson could actually play like a PG
- David Lee played defense and blocked shots
- Chandler could be consistent
- Harrington could play within the confines of the offense
- Hughs didnt shoot so many bricks
- Darko could shoot 3's
- Jordan Hill was really Amare lite
- Toney Douglas was real PG
- Gallinari was quicker and more athletic

Come on man. Our season shouldn't be resting in the hands of Duhon period.

Now all of that didn't have to happen for this team to be a playoff team. Sure those are all issues, but no one said the team had to be perfect in order to have won another 5-8 games this year. You really shouldn't be so dramatic. The single biggest issue for this team has been the fact that Duhon came out completely ineffective and the team had no rudder. Don't underestimate how important that was for a team trying to find a rhythm early in a season. He's not even a great player, but when he was doing his job the team played much better.

nixluva wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

nixluva wrote:This year has been very disappointing, but let's step back for a second and realize that if we had a good season from Duhon, heck even a good half of a season, this team would most likely have been in the playoffs. It wasn't going to take much to get in the playoffs this year, but without him playing well it wasn't gonna happen. Almost every team is gonna struggle without someone to lead the team on the floor. Not to mention we've got other problems.

Am I disappointed? YES! But we have to keep things in perspective cuz this is gonna be over soon and we'll be in full on rebuild mode.

We'd be in the playoffs if:

- Robinson could actually play like a PG
- David Lee played defense and blocked shots
- Chandler could be consistent
- Harrington could play within the confines of the offense
- Hughs didnt shoot so many bricks
- Darko could shoot 3's
- Jordan Hill was really Amare lite
- Toney Douglas was real PG
- Gallinari was quicker and more athletic

Come on man. Our season shouldn't be resting in the hands of Duhon period.

Now all of that didn't have to happen for this team to be a playoff team. Sure those are all issues, but no one said the team had to be perfect in order to have won another 5-8 games this year. You really shouldn't be so dramatic. The single biggest issue for this team has been the fact that Duhon came out completely ineffective and the team had no rudder. Don't underestimate how important that was for a team trying to find a rhythm early in a season. He's not even a great player, but when he was doing his job the team played much better.

Papabear Says

Don't put this all on Duhon. I truly beleive that if we signed Lebron this summer we would throwing him under the bus by the end of the season. Everyone has a job to do and just Lebron can't do it. Lebron will be waisting 3 years of his b ball life if he joined the Knicks because they won't be contenders for another 3 years or more. If we was banking our whole season on Douhon then what was D'Antoni doing here? This man is not the coach for the Knicks future. Patrick Ewing is the man who can bring us back and I think he will.

I figured we'd be one of the worst teams in the league, and we actually flirted with 8th place for a little bit there.

We're the only team with no lead player and our lottery picks are largely invisible.

Our current situation is waiting for the dead weight financial burdens to expire.

Our current situation is awaiting our financial freedom of which we can use to start building a team five months from now.

Again, anyone who thinks this roster was put together to compete for the playoffs - and in that want the coach fired for a new coach - and want Walsh to make some major shakeup - ARE BEING RIDICULOUS.

Nalod wrote:There was no quick fixes when MDA and walsh took over.

YOu have to go backwards before you go forward.

Mistakes are always made as part of any franchise operations.

We are losing with expirings and youth. Isiah lost with bloated overpaid malcontented talent. when your over the cap thats all you can get.

when you lust after Scotty Skiles as a coach and think the franchise is doomed after not picking Brandon Jennings thinking JHill is ready for prime time prefering to play him instead of developing him properly is crazy.

You have one of the best coaches in the game who has adapted to slow this team down and play better defense. You have a coach who under his time developed DLee into one of the leagues better players and all some can do is harp on not what the guy does but one thing he is weak on. This league if full of guys that can't be stopped and if you want Dlee fouling out then watch us still lose.

Some of you who wanted Larry out of here after a season thinking he has lost it should look into what Charlotte is doing these days and do it with envy. Larry was a dick here but he was a dick long before we hired him. He did not get stupid and nasty here.

I don't want MDA to change his ways too much. Let him do his thing and let walsh get his players.

Game plan as I see it.

Season 1: Dump salary, rid of malcotents. Create cap space.
Season 2: Try to make playoffs, develope youth. Create cap space.

We gonna cry over Ramon Sessions? 150 LB 6ft Brandon Jennings like he was the messiah? Every year or so a player gets passed over by a few teams that want to kick themselves but there were reasons. Jennings was scouted as a light weight small bone head. very quick and talented indeed.

Think some teams are kicking themselves over DLee the last few years? 29 players were taken ahead of him. Sometimes we do get lucky! Take stock in when you do istead of hindsight regret.

When Harrington and Duhan were healthy this team was rolling along. Duhan can't handle starters min's and maintain thru the season but I can see what MDA-Walsh had in mind and it works. Then things break down. Maybe they thought they fixed his mid season breakdown. Maybe they thought Nate would grow up. Maybe they thought JHill would be better out of the gate. Maybe they thought lots of things and stuff happens.

But did anyone really think we wuz playoff bound?

Anyone really think they are that smart with all this hindsight knowledge now available and think they know better? Really, we really know more than Walsh does?

Usually, posts that make this much sense get ignored...as this one will. Excellent points and I totally agree.

Cosmic wrote:

Uptown wrote:
Usually, posts that make this much sense get ignored...as this one will. Excellent points and I totally agree.

I don't. Then again Nalod and I are on the same page here.

I don't understand the upset fans at all. There shouldn't be a single upset fan. We have our plan. We've stuck to it. The building of the new team begins in a few months.

What is so hard to comprehend?

I give Mike and Walsh 18 months from July 2010 to prove it to me that they are building a winner for the future.
It took them 18 months to tear down the mistakes of the past.

Again, what is so hard to comprehend?

This isn't a video game.

Hey Cos, you're preaching to the choir, man. I totally agree. I think your timetable is reasonable aswell (2010 and about 2 seasone there after.) People seem to be ignoring the collasal mess that Layden and epecially Isiah made out of this franchise from top (owner) to the bottom (ball boy). Seriously, everyone was infected, whether it was undisciplined play on the floor, blame everyone (the coach, the fans, etc) but myself mentality in the lockeroom, front office personel involved in scandals off the court, etc.

This mess was not going to be cured in one season. Players needed to be purged, front offices guys needed to be relieved. Its been 6-7 years of total ineptitude, and its going to take years to get us back on the right track. Unfortunately, most fans lack patience, especially if their guy (wheteher it be the coach they wanted or the rookie they wanted selected) isn't in place.

AnubisADL wrote:

Cosmic wrote:I don't. Then again Nalod and I are on the same page here.

I don't understand the upset fans at all. There shouldn't be a single upset fan. We have our plan. We've stuck to it. The building of the new team begins in a few months.

What is so hard to comprehend?

I give Mike and Walsh 18 months from July 2010 to prove it to me that they are building a winner for the future.
It took them 18 months to tear down the mistakes of the past.

Again, what is so hard to comprehend?

This isn't a video game.

The building of a new team started the day Walsh became GM. I am upset because we always half ass things. If you want to be under the cap get ALL the way under the cap. We traded Randolph and Crawford for cap space then dont want to move Jefferies and Curry with assets.

The truth is we arent rebuilding. We are still trying to win as many games as possible just like last year. Real rebuilding teams play their youth. Memphis sat the vets last year and played the rookies and young guys heavy minutes. They sucked last year but now they are making strides. Oklahoma did the same thing last year as well. When the young guys play at least you know what you have to work with. Guys aren't developing sitting on the bench.

I dont mind losing I just want to see progress being made.

I agree with both ideas here, and am willing to give Walsh time, but it does seem to me that the Knicks are trying to play competitive ball at the expense of youth development, and I think it is about time to get Hill and Douglas the minutes they need to grow as players.

I think Walsh wants to let possible FA's see a team that they can help turn if they are added to the roster, but lets face it, the Knicks are hardly impressing folks these days, and there is little chance that they will make the playoffs as presently constituted.

I would like to see Chandler, Gallo, Hill, Douglas, and even Landry get the most significant minutes the rest of the way (30+MPG for the first 4, 25MPG+ for Landry. Lee should continue to get his minutes, and Duhon and Nate should get minutes according to who is playing better, since I don't think either of them will be back next year. A lot of guys hate Jeffries, but he has played well this year, especially recently, however his minutes should not be at the 35MPG they have been at over the past month+.

JohnWallace44 wrote:How many wins should we have exactly with this team?

I figured we'd be one of the worst teams in the league, and we actually flirted with 8th place for a little bit there.

We're the only team with no lead player and our lottery picks are largely invisible.

did u figure we'd be 1 of the worst teams in the league with our lottery picks being largely invisible tho? i know i didn't... i figured as long as we were gonna suck, our rooks would at least be getting max burn so they could accurately be assessed this season going into the summer of 2010... we could have easily featured J Hill & TD alot more than we have & still gotten Fishlips & Nate burn to showcase them for a trade... instead we did our best to demolish Nate's trade value this year w/his benching & all the drama that followed, & after over half the season both our rooks are still raw & unsure of what they're doing out there cuz they haven't gotten any regular burn in the rotation... those things, to me, have been a failing of the head coach this season.

VDesai wrote:I like D'Antoni. I dont think there was any realistic shot to be winning over these 2 seasons. We've done nothing but downgrade our roster. The biggest thing was developing some young players to have a bit of a core to build on when he had some financial flexibility. Considering the lack of picks we've had over this tenure its gone rather well. I think Chandler and Gallo have definitely come along pretty well so far at this point in their careers. Gallo hasn't played 82 games yet. He's 21 and and Chandler's 22. They both have shown they can be starters in the NBA already. David Lee has come a long way under D'Antoni. Even Nate Robinson with all thats happened is a much better player now than he was before. We probably won't keep both but will probably keep 1.

I think I'm gonna be troubled if after the trade deadline comes along that Hill and Douglas won't get burn. I think the objective has been trying to get value of Harrington etc. up to bring in some more inexpensive assets that we could build around (i.e. draft picks). Once the deadline passes I think we'll start to see Hill get a lot more burn. Gallo got to play right away. Chandler got thrown into the mix right away last year. I don't think he's fundamentally opposed to playing young guys at all.

D'Antoni played Richardson major minutes last year even though he sucked.

You cannot artificially raise the value of a 29 yr old Harrington or a 28 yr old Jefferies. Harrington is the same guy he was in Golden State and obviously he wasn't that wanted because we dumped 20 million in salary on Golden State to take him off their hands. You think Jared hitting a few 3's here and there is going to have a team jumping to acquire him for an expiring contract? GM's around the league know these guys games.

Do you think GM's only look at this season when a guys contract runs into next season? I read posts saying a playoff team could use Jefferies. They could use him if he wasn't making 7 million per. Jefferies and Curry arent going anywhere unless Chandler or another asset is packaged along with them. This is a buyers market since plenty of teams are looking to be 2010 players. Expiring have become valuable commodities. When you have teams rumored to be willing to trade guys like Butler, Jamison, Murphy, Igoudala, Dalembert, etc for expirings and filler you have to realize Jefferies is not high on anyones list. The only rumors about Jefferies are being fabricated by the NY media.

Guys like Jefferies and Harrington are playing because D'Antoni likes them for whatever reason. They aren't playing to "raise" their value because their value today is the same it was over the summer.