you may be right that Phoenix would rather just hold onto their young guys than make that deal but i wouldn't trade Lee & Nate for Barbosa, Clark & Lopez like u suggested either & my guess is neither would Donnie Walsh.

if Nate's real world value is Marcus Williams & a 2nd round pick from MEM, then that to me is worthy of a late 1st round pick overall... add $3M in cash to that along w/a 2nd rounder & you got 2 late 1st round picks worth of value in that secondary package i proposed... to me, that easily equates to Dragic & Lopez... it's fine if u disagree but that's where i gauge their value... i don't give a rat's arse if Lopez was taken 15th overall, he's not that good & IMO the Suns overreached for him to take him that high... most draft projections had Lopez going late 1st to mid 2nd round on draft night... this is his second year already & his offensive skillset is still very limited & for his size he's not all that great a rebounder either... u don't think the Suns are kicking themselves in the ass right now for passing up on guys like Marreese Speights, Roy Hibbert, JJ Hickson & Courtney Lee?

the reason i would make that deal if i'm the Knicks is for the reasons i listed earlier... i think Dragic would cause way less headaches for MDA & fill the role left vacant by Nate & Lopez would fill the role that Darko was supposed to fill but didn't, add a shotblocking presence... if they don't make the deal i don't really give a crap... i'm just trying to think of some possible ways to fill your standards of adding some youth while still making sense for the Knicks in the process.

TMS wrote:first of all i said i wasn't even crazy about the idea of trading Lee for Amare to begin with, just entertaining this thread of urs so i came up with the only deal i thought would possibly make sense for both parties if Amare was going to leave Phoenix anyway... u might think it was comical but i'm not all too fond of any of the trade ideas you posted either to tell u the truth... not gonna take this to a "let's see whose trade ideas suck more" pissing contest with u tho.

if Nate's real world value is Marcus Williams & a 2nd round pick from MEM, then that to me is worthy of a late 1st round pick overall... add $3M in cash to that along w/a 2nd rounder & you got 2 late 1st round picks worth of value in that secondary package i proposed... to me, that easily equates to Dragic & Lopez... it's fine if u disagree but that's where i gauge their value... i don't give a rat's arse if Lopez was taken 15th overall, he's not that good & IMO the Suns overreached for him to take him that high... most draft projections had Lopez going late 1st to mid 2nd round on draft night... this is his second year already & his offensive skillset is still very limited & for his size he's not all that great a rebounder either... u don't think the Suns are kicking themselves in the ass right now for passing up on guys like Marreese Speights, Roy Hibbert, JJ Hickson & Courtney Lee?

the reason i would make that deal if i'm the Knicks is for the reasons i listed earlier... i think Dragic would cause way less headaches for MDA & fill the role left vacant by Nate & Lopez would fill the role that Darko was supposed to fill but didn't, add a shotblocking presence... if they don't make the deal i don't really give a crap... i'm just trying to think of some possible ways to fill your standards of adding some youth while still making sense for the Knicks in the process.

Not really because Rod Thorn said they had Robin Lopez rated right after his brother. Courtney Lee is overrated but those other 3 guys are good players.

We'll see what happens with Lee

The point I was making Nate has done nothing to warrant the value of those two players this year regardless if he's the better player on paper. Dragic is always capable of becoming better than Nate and actually may be able to hold down the point spot. Not to mention they probably want more comfort in having an asset as a successor to Nash already in the fold.

But to show you an example would you trade Toney/2nd/Cash for J.R. Smith....?

I wouldn't because of who J.R. Smith is and Nate's cut from the same cloth...looney immature idiot. But J.R. is the better player in the trade.

Juice wrote:The point I was making Nate has done nothing to warrant the value of those two players this year regardless if he's the better player on paper. Dragic is always capable of becoming better than Nate and actually may be able to hold down the point spot. Not to mention they probably want more comfort in having an asset as a successor to Nash already in the fold.

But to show you an example would you trade Toney/2nd/Cash for J.R. Smith....?

I wouldn't because of who J.R. Smith is and Nate's cut from the same cloth...looney immature idiot. But J.R. is the better player in the trade.

i would make that deal in a heartbeat, are u serious? JR Smith is a pretty damn good player & he'd be a big upgrade over Nate at the SG position... he's got a contract that expires in 2011 & we would own his Bird Rights... plus he's got legitimate size at the SG position... i love TD's defense but that's a deal i make all day everyday if i'm the Knicks... but again, MDA is a problem cuz of how he's incapable of dealing w/immaturity... & DEN would never make that deal to begin with.

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:i'm pretty sure he meant to say Marcus Landry... at least i hope so.

but Juice, study up on the salary cap & take a look at D Lee's contract this season & you'll see why none of your trade ideas are even remotely feasible whether you meant to say Marcus Landry or not.

Lee and Marcus Landry 4 Sergio Rodriguez/Kenny Thomas/31rst pick(2010) is close but you still can't make that trade because of the salary cap restrictions... check over your trade ideas on Trade Checker before u post em if you're not sure if the dollars match up.

http://www.realgm.com/src_tradechecker/1/

The trades were suggestions as to, talent/assets to get back. You can throw Duhon in on the first trade to make it work and tweak the others etc etc. I understand about the BYC issues and whatnot with Lee and Nate. These trades were essentially premises and not to be viewed as set in stone CBA approved. Basically I'm looking for youth/assets and to fulfill major positions of need. Good luck thinking we get anything of major significance for Lee and/or Nate.

Nate shoulda been traded last year before the deadline but i still think we can get back a late round pick for him... & i think we'll either work out some kinda S&T for Lee this offseason or he'll be signed to a longterm extension... Lee carries pretty good value if u ask me.

Lee is very overrated. I think he's good at what he does for Lee but I'm not interested in paying a player his market value which is between $50-65mil only to see his stats diminish, because his role will have to change as we restructure the team. We've basically inflated Lee's numbers and possibly outpriced himself off our team. Yes Lee has a J but he plays no defense at all and never has his 5yrs in the league. Using him as a focal point on our team has only hurt the development of Gallo and Hill. No team(who has cap space) has to do any S&T with us in the summer as they can out right pay him. Usually double/double players get paid...it is what it is. It only takes one team to overpay and trust me there will be at least one. In my trades I either snag us a starting caliber point guard/center with upside, on the cheap... get picks in which we can either barter ourselves into the first round via trade and cash considerations or use those picks and perform a great draft as did the Spurs/Rockets with late round selections. To restructure our team with youth in the event our summer isn't a bang. I also picked us up some shooters in the process.

Lee and Nate should have been traded eons ago....they don't fit our future and our GM said on the radio end of last week....He may bring back 1 or 2 Free Agents and is assured to keep 1 or 2 of our Younger Prospects. We're looking to deal no doubt. Lee and Nate have contributed to a lot of losing not winning there value isn't as high as we think when it comes to trades but possibly on the open market they may get paid due to teams being in a stronger position to bring them aboard.

Go watch 20 or so games and you will see there is nothing inflated about the dude's stats. Knicks run a slow offense.

iSergio wrote:I like the Portland and Phoenix trades.

There are definitely so many viable options we can look at by February 18th with Lee. I'd also like to point out the notion Phx would fear losing Amare in Free Agency for nothing is kind of a stretch. All Phx has to do is let whoever signs him say Miami for example and request a pick really of any sort(for some kind of compensation) and/or cash considerations if needed because salaries don't have to match. If they were looking to sign a player like Lee they'd be far enough under the cap to sign him outright because Amare financials go bye-bye...So they don't have to work any major deals with anyone this off-season. If they can unload Barbs by the deadline, they can literally let Amare walk and go after their very own Max Player.

fishmike wrote:Lee's stats are not inflated.

You contradict yourself in the next sentence.

fishmike wrote:He handles the ball every possesion.

A high usage rate leads to inflated stats.

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

Juice wrote:The point I was making Nate has done nothing to warrant the value of those two players this year regardless if he's the better player on paper. Dragic is always capable of becoming better than Nate and actually may be able to hold down the point spot. Not to mention they probably want more comfort in having an asset as a successor to Nash already in the fold.

But to show you an example would you trade Toney/2nd/Cash for J.R. Smith....?

I wouldn't because of who J.R. Smith is and Nate's cut from the same cloth...looney immature idiot. But J.R. is the better player in the trade.

i would make that deal in a heartbeat, are u serious? JR Smith is a pretty damn good player & he'd be a big upgrade over Nate at the SG position... he's got a contract that expires in 2011 & we would own his Bird Rights... plus he's got legitimate size at the SG position... i love TD's defense but that's a deal i make all day everyday if i'm the Knicks... but again, MDA is a problem cuz of how he's incapable of dealing w/immaturity... & DEN would never make that deal to begin with.

While I agree with you from a perspective of pulling the trigger looking at the trade on paper, I was providing a similar example. Phx says no to your suggestion too for Nate... for similar reasons. I was saying just because a player may be the best in a trade doesn't necessarily mean it's a trade that should be made. J.R. Smith and Pringles wouldn't be a good match.

i think MDA could deal w/JR a lot better than he could Nate... JR doesn't do all the attention whoring shenanigans that Nate does, not nearly to that extent... & he takes shots more in the flow of the offense rather than trying to play 1 on 5 (at least in games i've seen in the playoffs & regular season), something Nate does not do on a regular basis... anyway, i think JR carries a lot more value right now than Nate does, so it's a different situation entirely.