King1 wrote:Cosmic there has never been anyone score 40 on Lee. He is by far trhe best player on this team. He has zero help rebounding, and he plays with the worst four man and point in the league. Funny how Kobe, Shaq, said publicly he should be on the all star team and Duncan and Bosh also sings his praises. After Lee destroyed duncan tim said see you dallas. Funny how HOF players respect his game but the fans dont.

It's a combination. It's not just his man.

As the pivot you are assigned not just your man but everyone that seeks the rim. Lee gets scored on by Centers, Forwards, Guards... everyone.

Now, of course, it's not ultimately his fault that teammates get torched. Yet he is the last line of defense and in that he gets destroyed.

I like Lee but we have to be not just honest but BRUTAL in scrutinizing who we are going to pay this summer.

Now isn't the time to love them like our children. Now is the time to destroy them and see what we got left.

We're trying to build a winning team here. Not looking to hand out an allowance to our children.

And in that I wonder is Lee really worth it? What is his true +/- ??? It's not very good IMO.

And again, he isn't a franchise player. He just isn't. When he sits down the team plays the same way. It's won plenty with him watching from the bench. That's not a good sign for Lee.

You put up big empty stats on a terrible losing team who also finds a way to win half it's games with you cheerleading. Not a good look.

This is what we have to check out before we sign him.

King1 wrote:Cosmic there has never been anyone score 40 on Lee. He is by far trhe best player on this team. He has zero help rebounding, and he plays with the worst four man and point in the league. Funny how Kobe, Shaq, said publicly he should be on the all star team and Duncan and Bosh also sings his praises. After Lee destroyed duncan tim said see you dallas. Funny how HOF players respect his game but the fans dont.

Lee is putting up such big numbers because he has nobody to compete with him for boards or inside buckets. when Zach Randolph was doing work, Lee was not putting up these kinds of scoring or rebounding games. And everybody, especially you, were crying about how Randolph was stealing Lee's touches.

The only reason Lee is even putting up anything resembling All-star numbers is because D'Antoni is riding him all game long. It's pure numbers. All you have to do is look at his stats and he is producing at roughly the same rate, actually, it appears his rebounding is slightly down per minute compared to his second and fourth seasons.

You told me that Lee would get a long term contract this summer and Millsap would not be offered the as much money. Wrong. You said Lee would be an all-star this season. Wrong again.

One thing you're right about: Lee is the best player on the team. and when David Lee is the best player on your NBA team, that means your team is bad.

I know you like Lee, and so do I, but please try to get a hold of your self. He is the same player he has always been, but with a nicely improved J this season for the first time ever.

oohah

markvmc wrote:Lee is not the best player on the team. He is a one way player. Very good at the one way, but really bad at the other end. Chandler is better. Gallo is better. Jeffries is as good, it's just he does his work at the other end.

Gallinari one dimensional outside shooter, no rebounding and no defense except 1 block a game is better than Lee?

Come on. Gallinari is about the 4th best player on the team, maybe 5th. He just happens to be D'Antoni's favorite.

oohah

King1 wrote:Everytime he challenges a shot if the guy misses it is usually a tip dunk. MDA is asking him to set 70 screens a game get 12 boards, run the offense, and score at a 55% rate for about 40 minutes a game. Put a defensive big with him and a sober point and he is a all star every year. Last year it was Lee is getting points because he isnt the first option. He gets other players open shots. He is never going to block shots that is why you get a big that can and not Jordan Hill. He isnt a great defensive player but no one this team really is.

Jordan Hill isn't a bad defender IMO... kid tries & fights hard for position down low... he's not Dikembe Mutombo obviously but i happen to think he's our best low post defender on this team.

If you don't feel that jordan hill and a defensive center are better for than knicks than giving David lee $12 million a year than you are not that good at recognizing the knicks record over the last 4 years of between 23 and 32 wins.

I think the team should focus on convincing Amare and Joe Johnson to reunite in new York and throw the bank at melo in 2011.

Stick with the cheap kids:
gallo, Chandler, Douglas, hill
everyone else magically disappears and is joined by:
Joe Johnson, Amare and melo.

And in my magical rainbow society, we slip into cp3.

But paying david lee $12 mill is a sure fire way to keep the same under achieving team together for many year's to come.

Amare and Joe Johnson everybody. That's your 2010 knicks.
TD, Joe Johnson, Chandler, gallo, hill
bender and whoever the hell else we can fill the bench with.

We need to be creative and reuniting the suns of yesteryear is better than adding lebron to this same crappy bunch.

Any chance Ray Allen takes the midlevel?

Phew. I feel better. Apologies for anyone offended.

BRIGGS wrote:
If you put Andrew Bynum next to Lee and we had a good PG and more consistent bench players--how would we do--the problem is we dont have C a PG and a consistent bench. MDA does not believe in a 5--so I don't kmow what to say but I dont believe Lee is the problems with he Knicks in anyway. Even if Zach Randolph was here at C we'd be better---Jefferies and Gallinari are not post players.

The logic of "Player A is bad at THIS" so "We need to put Player B who is good at THIS next to him." and "now we win games".

Is very flawed logic.

No thanks to that. I'd prefer a complete player.

Putting a defender next to a player who isn't a defender doesn't win you games. It gives you Jared Jeffries next to David Lee. It's a very flawed logic. "If only we got a player that can do what our own player can't then we'll win games!".

FALSE.

Now you have two flawed players.

Allanfan20 wrote:Tryimg amd fighting doesn't usually mean good, although it's great he's putting up the effort, which shows he's wants to be good. However, it usually takes a good few years for an NBA player to be a good defender. That's because while the effort is important, it's all about knowing where to be, understanding your opponents, learning your teammates and being able to communicate with them, and always knowing where they are and where they will be. Knowing which hands to put up (As trivial as it seems, but putting up the wrong hand will lead to a collapse in your defense) knowing how to challenge the shooters. All of that.

With that said, Jordan still needs to learn all of that, but like I said, he's putting up the effort, getting a few blocked shots, but he's far from actually being a good defender at this point.

Jordan Hill has altered more shots & made more good defensive plays this season in his sporadic play than i've seen David Lee make all year... kid has a ways to learn about positioning & defensive shifts, but he contests every shot & doesn't stand 4 feet off the path of the penetrator in the paint with his arms in the air & his gravity boots on either... IMO he's a solid post defender & does much better giving guys that outweigh & outsize him a hard time to get off their shots than other guys do on this team.

nychamp wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:If you put Andrew Bynum next to Lee and we had a good PG and more consistent bench players--how would we do--the problem is we dont have C a PG and a consistent bench. MDA does not believe in a 5--so I don't kmow what to say but I dont believe Lee is the problems with he Knicks in anyway. Even if Zach Randolph was here at C we'd be better---Jefferies and Gallinari are not post players.

But if you need so many other pieces (Bynum + good PG + better bench) for Lee not to be more liability than asset, that right there says that Lee is not your top guy.

Of course Lee is capable of fitting in and being a ++ player next to the right combination of guys, but he is not a centerpiece to build around IMO.

remember we have scked for a decade and one of the biggest problems the management[and fans] is to sometimes over rate ourselves. With or without Lee we need a C a PG and a more consistent balanced bench. They brought in Darko--did not work--well I dont see an answer by subtracting Lee????

skeng wrote:I wouldnt like the idea of D Lee going away, and it's obvious he isn't a franchise player atm, but he is one heck of a player, he's a Knick, he isn't injury-prone and he has a nice work ethic.

He would be less of a liability if he wasn't forced to play at an off-position on defense. Also, if his surrounding cast was better defensively his faults would probably be less noticeable and his +/- would be in the +'s favor. At least that's my opinion.

Little worried about that knee.

The one he has a sleeve on. The one he gimps around on several times a game. Yeah, that one.