Why do people like OBM and BRIGGS refuse to see this?

kam77 wrote:The US backed up a puppet GOVT which in turn allowed US and other investors to rape the country.
Same thing happened to Jamaica and many other territories in our hemisphere.

Why do people like OBM and BRIGGS refuse to see this?

lol. rape them for what exactly? what is there to rape bro?

sebstar wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Haitians cut their own throats two ways--they transformed their beautiful lush country into a virtual wasteland over the last 70 years--by their own hands.

I won't give Haiti a penny either and this article has proven what I already know--that for every dollar I give--.01 goes to Haitians. Why would I give to corruption when we have our own problems here? We give in our taxes and our government is utilizing those taxes for relief. I don't know if Haiti as is can make it as a going concern unless there is massive change.

Ok, first of all who is the "they" you're referring to? The dictators in charge and the nations that prop those Govts. up, or the actual people of Haiti?

And the article that you've linked to indicts the U.S above everything. Many critics of the U.S response feel that we have put more of an emphasis on occupation and treating Haiti like a warzone rather than concentrating on providing as much aid as possible.

Overall, I think you need to calm down on your rhetoric because you are parroting talking points filled with generalizations from people whom I suspect have no idea what they're talking about.

Yes, aid isnt the end all be all, but right now is not the time for this shyt. And I'm definitely not trying to hear the ravings of some sociopath named Shirley.

Sebstar--over the last 70 years the people of Haiti destroyed their own land--there is no other way to say it. The government used massive corruption and mismanaged the country so badly that it's a virtual wasteland--not breaking anyone's cahones or agreeing with anyone--these are facts. They have known for years about the geophysical potential yet did nothing to change the infrastructure for the people. Why would they--their government could care less about it's own. I don't know what the answer is there but as far as I can see the answer does not lie with the Haitians--they have proven they cannot run a small country. This earthquake just shows the honesty of the situation--they made their own bed and now they are lying in it. Sometimes reality is cruel.

sebstar wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

sebstar wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Haitians cut their own throats two ways--they transformed their beautiful lush country into a virtual wasteland over the last 70 years--by their own hands.

I won't give Haiti a penny either and this article has proven what I already know--that for every dollar I give--.01 goes to Haitians. Why would I give to corruption when we have our own problems here? We give in our taxes and our government is utilizing those taxes for relief. I don't know if Haiti as is can make it as a going concern unless there is massive change.

Ok, first of all who is the "they" you're referring to? The dictators in charge and the nations that prop those Govts. up, or the actual people of Haiti?

And the article that you've linked to indicts the U.S above everything. Many critics of the U.S response feel that we have put more of an emphasis on occupation and treating Haiti like a warzone rather than concentrating on providing as much aid as possible.

Overall, I think you need to calm down on your rhetoric because you are parroting talking points filled with generalizations from people whom I suspect have no idea what they're talking about.

Yes, aid isnt the end all be all, but right now is not the time for this shyt. And I'm definitely not trying to hear the ravings of some sociopath named Shirley.

Sebstar--over the last 70 years the people of Haiti destroyed their own land--there is no other way to say it. The government used massive corruption and mismanaged the country so badly that it's a virtual wasteland--not breaking anyone's cahones or agreeing with anyone--these are facts. They have known for years about the geophysical potential yet did nothing to change the infrastructure for the people. Why would they--their government could care less about it's own. I don't know what the answer is there but as far as I can see the answer does not lie with the Haitians--they have proven they cannot run a small country. This earthquake just shows the honesty of the situation--they made their own bed and now they are lying in it. Sometimes reality is cruel.

Dude, you continuing to say this is like somebody saying "The City of New York and its citizens have produced a horrible NY Knicks squad for the past 10 years"

I hate to compare Haiti to such trivial matters, but...damn, I just wish you would stop saying this man 'cause I like you and I think you're a pretty bright guy and all.

It's not a personal thing. I wish it did not happen and I am horrified by it. My remarks and what I believe in is that Haiti--and OTHER countries like Haiti can not stand to be oppressed by their own governments anymore--that the ultimate responsibility has to come from the people--there has to be law equality advancement and innovation for all to share. Haiti was once a land rich in resources and the country has been stripped of it's riches. The country is a footprint for drugs and corruption and it's people do not fight it. Someone has to step up and say no more and the next man has to follow. And these men have to be prepared to die for such cause. That is how Haiti freed itself from France and now how it must free itself of it's own.

BRIGGS wrote:

sebstar wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

sebstar wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:The Haitians cut their own throats two ways--they transformed their beautiful lush country into a virtual wasteland over the last 70 years--by their own hands.

I won't give Haiti a penny either and this article has proven what I already know--that for every dollar I give--.01 goes to Haitians. Why would I give to corruption when we have our own problems here? We give in our taxes and our government is utilizing those taxes for relief. I don't know if Haiti as is can make it as a going concern unless there is massive change.

Ok, first of all who is the "they" you're referring to? The dictators in charge and the nations that prop those Govts. up, or the actual people of Haiti?

And the article that you've linked to indicts the U.S above everything. Many critics of the U.S response feel that we have put more of an emphasis on occupation and treating Haiti like a warzone rather than concentrating on providing as much aid as possible.

Overall, I think you need to calm down on your rhetoric because you are parroting talking points filled with generalizations from people whom I suspect have no idea what they're talking about.

Yes, aid isnt the end all be all, but right now is not the time for this shyt. And I'm definitely not trying to hear the ravings of some sociopath named Shirley.

Sebstar--over the last 70 years the people of Haiti destroyed their own land--there is no other way to say it. The government used massive corruption and mismanaged the country so badly that it's a virtual wasteland--not breaking anyone's cahones or agreeing with anyone--these are facts. They have known for years about the geophysical potential yet did nothing to change the infrastructure for the people. Why would they--their government could care less about it's own. I don't know what the answer is there but as far as I can see the answer does not lie with the Haitians--they have proven they cannot run a small country. This earthquake just shows the honesty of the situation--they made their own bed and now they are lying in it. Sometimes reality is cruel.

Dude, you continuing to say this is like somebody saying "The City of New York and its citizens have produced a horrible NY Knicks squad for the past 10 years"

I hate to compare Haiti to such trivial matters, but...damn, I just wish you would stop saying this man 'cause I like you and I think you're a pretty bright guy and all.

It's not a personal thing. I wish it did not happen and I am horrified by it. My remarks and what I believe in is that Haiti--and OTHER countries like Haiti can not stand to be oppressed by their own governments anymore--that the ultimate responsibility has to come from the people--there has to be law equality advancement and innovation for all to share. Haiti was once a land rich in resources and the country has been stripped of it's riches. The country is a footprint for drugs and corruption and it's people do not fight it. Someone has to step up and say no more and the next man has to follow. And these men have to be prepared to die for such cause. That is how Haiti freed itself from France and now how it must free itself of it's own.

briggs, let's not get crazy here man. that's absurd. you mean...the people of haiti...taking responsibility...for their own lives...? nah, that sounds crazy! white people are to blame for exploiting their...vast..natural resources..?

JesseDark wrote:My thoughts on this matter are there but for the grace of God go I. Shirley and those on this forum who are giving support to his view certainly look like the Ugly American looking down their nose saying its their own fault. It's true true compassion isn't giving a dollar to a beggar, but these people aren't beggars. They are victims. This isn't the time to further punish the people of Haiti for the sins of their goverment. People are in need of the basic necessities to sustain the lives. Donating first aid kits, tents whatever does not aid the goverment of Haiti, but it does help the people.
When you do donate you don't it with the expectation that it might go it the wrong hands. You do it cause its the right thing to do. You have done your part.

Instead of using the vast resources of their land to promote a healthy environment for all people of Haiti to benefit and prosper from--the Haitians chose--over a long period of time to destroy it. If my part is to send a dollar knowing that it has a high possibility to fall in to the same nefarious hands that decimated the country--the only part I played is a pawn. I trust the US government will help Haiti out of this disaster to a point that they can rebuild. I do NOT trust the Haitan government with my money based on their own actions built over a long period of time.

BRIGGS wrote:

JesseDark wrote:My thoughts on this matter are there but for the grace of God go I. Shirley and those on this forum who are giving support to his view certainly look like the Ugly American looking down their nose saying its their own fault. It's true true compassion isn't giving a dollar to a beggar, but these people aren't beggars. They are victims. This isn't the time to further punish the people of Haiti for the sins of their goverment. People are in need of the basic necessities to sustain the lives. Donating first aid kits, tents whatever does not aid the goverment of Haiti, but it does help the people.
When you do donate you don't it with the expectation that it might go it the wrong hands. You do it cause its the right thing to do. You have done your part.

Instead of using the vast resources of their land to promote a healthy environment for all people of Haiti to benefit and prosper from--the Haitians chose--over a long period of time to destroy it. If my part is to send a dollar knowing that it has a high possibility to fall in to the same nefarious hands that decimated the country--the only part I played is a pawn. I trust the US government will help Haiti out of this disaster to a point that they can rebuild. I do NOT trust the Haitan government with my money based on their own actions built over a long period of time.

What you are saying is that "I won't give cause I don't trust the Haitian goverment". I am saying, as well as others in the thread, are saying that you can give to well established relief organizations without having to worry. People are need in absolute bare necessities, but nobody is begging you. I have donated before and will again.

The blather about the goverment doen't take into account the blunder and boycott that has been done to Haiti over the years. Haiti didn't become the poorest country in the western hemisphere by accident. It was by design.

Shoot Jeremiah Wright made a remark years later about chickens coming home to roost and he was treated like a pariah and called every name under-the-sun by the media. And he had a much, much stronger moral foundation to stand on.

You guys agreeing with this cat are dead ass wrong. Not only is this position laughably hypocritical, given our role over the years in Haiti's struggles, the timing is cruel.

See, NY-ers and America as a whole felt a connection to the 9/11 victims. But because Haiti is a impoverished, 3rd world country filled with brown folks its easy to position them as the other and blame them for their plight.

We're talking about human beings at the end of the day, not abstract geo-political matters. Some of ya'll are forgetting that and thats bullshyt.

orangeblobman wrote:you're missing the point sebstar. it's similar to teaching a man to fish or fishing for him.

Naw....how about if I took all the damn fish out of all the lakes, rivers, streams, and oceans and I supported a ruthless fishing commission that broke all your equipment, beat the hell out of you, and made it virtually impossible for you to live.

Now you do your best to make your way despite horrible conditions only to have a national disaster that you have no control over destroy everything you have, wipe out your family and place injury on your person.

Then me and my friends swoop in simultaneously laughing at your plight and blaming you while telling you not to expect a dime of help as we sit comfortably.

We're not Darth Vader here --- this situation as its more complex than Black and white, but how dare some of ya'll justify your stances by completely absolving America in its role in Haiti's plight. This is getting ridiculous.