TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:so u think Jennings has a pass first mentality? what evidence do u have to prove this? Deron Williams & CP3 are not averaging as many FGA's per game as Jennings & yet both are much more established players in this league & just plain better all around PG's... how does ur statement support your argument here? both those guys are clearly the best players on their respective teams... part of what makes them great players is their ability to create for others & get other guys involved in the flow of the offense... Jennings has not proven himself to be a pass first mentality PG, not at this stage... when he's at his best, he's looking to score first, pass second... i disagree when u say he has little in common w/AI... to me they play the same style of basketball... AI is an alltime greatest player to ever play the game, i don't expect Jennings to reach his level, but we're talking about style of game here... his rookie season AI averaged 20 FGA's per game & put up 24 & 8... yes, he got his share of assists but he was always a shoot first PG... i view Jennings' career unfolding in that mold... i don't ever think Jennings will be a double digit assist player, i just can't see it.

Im watching Minny versus Milwaukee now and Jennings has 3 or 4 assists. The announcer even stated if his teammates actually made shots he'd average 10 assists a game. He feeds the hot hand and creates wide open shots for teammate because of his speed and penetration ability.

so your evidence is that the announcer said if his teammates made shots he'd average 10 assists a game? the fact that Jennings has that speed & penetration ability is why i think he'd be better suited playing like AI... he should be looking to get to the foul line because he can take anyone off the dribble.

No, I just thought it was an interesting comment. Brandon Jennings currently has 8 assists at half time. Jennings makes the same plays every game the only difference is tonight they were hitting shots.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:MDA doesn't have an issue with his PG shooting, in fact he needs that to be a serious threat so that the floor remains open, but the PG has to really be looking pass 1st and then if it's getting late in the clock or he's being given a wide open shot he should take it without hesitation. Remarkably we have done really well as a team passing the ball with Lee, Gallo, Jared and Chan out there. Duhon isn't a great ast/TO ratio guy, but we've been OK in terms of TO's despite his poor passing. We're avg'ing 20 assists and only 14.5 TO's. That's great for this team which had for years been horrible at assists and TO's. Just imagine what it would be like with a PG that takes great care with the ball and sets up his teammates well?

Duhon's A/TO ratio is 3.3 this year... that's 7th in the NBA... just for comparison Deron Williams is 12th in the NBA at 2.9 & Steve Nash is 13th at 2.8... taking care of the ball is not Duhon's problem... it's his inability to present a scoring threat at all.

I was wrong in saying Duhon wasn't a great Ast/To guy. It was a poor choice to express things I don't like that I see from the guy. I was wrong, but it does lead me to bring up another major issue I have with his PG play. If you really look at why Duhon's assist to TO ratio isn't showing itself to be that bad it's mainly cuz he doesn't really make any passes that you'd say require high accuracy or skill. He's making a lot short passes in the P n R and many of his other passes don't lead to a shot at all, which is why even tho he's got scorers around him he's not really avg'ing a lot more assists. The fact that he often forces that short bounce pass into Lee, that bounces of defenders feet is more proof of his lack of creativity in passing and over reliance on the play. Duhon misses more open teammates than a little bit. He just doesn't even look for them, in favor of playing it safe looking for Lee.

Duhon isn't penetrating and hitting open shooters out on the floor he tends to walk the ball up court and make a very basic pass to start the ball rotating around the perimeter. Not much risk there and he's often not involved in the pass that leads to the score unless it's to Lee.

If he was to try and attempt to spread the passes around having to make more tough passes that good PG's can make regularly, I don't think he'd be as successful. I suppose he should be credited with realizing this and not just trying to make passes he can't make. If he was able to penetrate, draw and kick it would lead to a lot more easy offense and keep defenses off balance and yes it would probably lower his Ast/TO which I believe is artificially inflated. In his case it's not necessarily a good thing that his Ast/To ratio is good.

I would agree that stat wise he's "taking care of the ball" I think we'd all prefer one of the other guards who actually tries to make plays giving up a few TO's in the process, but creating far more offense for the team as well.

I agree that Duhon's lack of scoring threat is a major problem.

lets look at this in 3 years to really see what was right or wrong.

Maybe our plan was to develope Hill and maybe Walsh thought he could get another point besides DuDu. Maybe he thought he had a shot at Rubio.

Second guessing is easy.

For all things DUDU is not, he is steady with the ball and the team has moved more towards Wilson and Gallo. Has anyone not seen the transition? This is HUGE! Now Hill is getting some minutes. I'd like to see TD get some run, but all in due time.

TMS wrote:dude, i can cherry pick high assist games played by AI, Stephon Marbury & Nate Robinson to try & prove to you why i think they all fit the classic PG mold too

when he put up 55 pts. & was averaging 23 ppg early in the season & looked like a superstar scorer in the making i didn't hear anyone around here talking about how he would be better suited if he toned down his shot attempts & looked to be more of an orchestrator... his best talent lies in his shotmaking ability in my eyes... he is a special talent, there's no question of that, but i personally don't see MDA & him being a great fit together... just my opinion... he is a PG in the Isiah Thomas mold, not Steve Nash/John Stockton... plus his brashness didn't help matters either, because to me MDA doesn't seem to prefer players with big egos & strong personalities... part of the reason why we didn't scout the kid as heavily as we should have might have been because MDA had his preferred PG's he wanted & Jennings wasn't one of them... just a guess but i could easily see that as a reason seeing as how MDA banished Marbury, passed on signing AI & benched Nate Robinson this season.

also, if this whole offseason plan has been centered on luring Lebron James here, i don't think having a high volume scorer that needs to dominate the ball to be effective would be a great fit either.

let me ask u this, who do u think would be a better fit for a team with Lebron next year & this coach, Jennings or someone like Rubio?

You arent watching games if you say that. Jennings makes the SAME passes every game and runs the same plays. The only difference was Delfino contributed for 4 quarters. Obviously when guys keep bricking you are going to have to put points on the board.

Skiles is a no non-sense coach. If you dont play the way he wants you will be sitting next to him on the bench. Delfino was in the dog house until 3 games ago. Warrick collected a DNP-CD friday after being 3-4 on Wednesday. Boute got 11 minutes Saturday. If you dont contribute you sit. Skiles doesn't play mind games like D'Antoni. If Jennings was throwing up shots he'd be sitting on the sidelines. Jennings hasn't demonstrated any of the negative character traits of Iverson, Marbury, or Robinson yet you bring them up? Why?

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:dude, i can cherry pick high assist games played by AI, Stephon Marbury & Nate Robinson to try & prove to you why i think they all fit the classic PG mold too

when he put up 55 pts. & was averaging 23 ppg early in the season & looked like a superstar scorer in the making i didn't hear anyone around here talking about how he would be better suited if he toned down his shot attempts & looked to be more of an orchestrator... his best talent lies in his shotmaking ability in my eyes... he is a special talent, there's no question of that, but i personally don't see MDA & him being a great fit together... just my opinion... he is a PG in the Isiah Thomas mold, not Steve Nash/John Stockton... plus his brashness didn't help matters either, because to me MDA doesn't seem to prefer players with big egos & strong personalities... part of the reason why we didn't scout the kid as heavily as we should have might have been because MDA had his preferred PG's he wanted & Jennings wasn't one of them... just a guess but i could easily see that as a reason seeing as how MDA banished Marbury, passed on signing AI & benched Nate Robinson this season.

also, if this whole offseason plan has been centered on luring Lebron James here, i don't think having a high volume scorer that needs to dominate the ball to be effective would be a great fit either.

let me ask u this, who do u think would be a better fit for a team with Lebron next year & this coach, Jennings or someone like Rubio?

You arent watching games if you say that. Jennings makes the SAME passes every game and runs the same plays. The only difference was Delfino contributed for 4 quarters. Obviously when guys keep bricking you are going to have to put points on the board.

Skiles is a no non-sense coach. If you dont play the way he wants you will be sitting next to him on the bench. Delfino was in the dog house until 3 games ago. Warrick collected a DNP-CD friday after being 3-4 on Wednesday. Boute got 11 minutes Saturday. If you dont contribute you sit. Skiles doesn't play mind games like D'Antoni. If Jennings was throwing up shots he'd be sitting on the sidelines. Jennings hasn't demonstrated any of the negative character traits of Iverson, Marbury, or Robinson yet you bring them up? Why?

i'm not even referring to the negative character traits when i bring up AI, Marbury & Nate, i just think Jennings is best when he plays that style of game... he's a dynamic scorer that is best when he's attacking the basket & i don't think he'd be best served by trying to turn himself into a pass first mentality PG... u're telling me u think he's more Steve Nash than Isiah Thomas?

& u still haven't answered my question... do u think Jennings is the type of PG MDA is looking for or is he looking for someone like Rubio?

I havent seen Rubio play much. Plus last time I checked Rubio was drafted 5th and we drafted 8th. D'Antoni could have liked Griffin more than Hill. I don't see how that matters. I also don't select draft picks to fit a coach that could be fired.

If Nate had Jennings court vision he would have been starting 2 years ago. How many Bucks games have you seen this year?

Oh and Isiah Thomas played defense while Jennnings is a door man. Jennings doesn't fit the mold of anyone single player either.

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

TMS wrote:dude, i can cherry pick high assist games played by AI, Stephon Marbury & Nate Robinson to try & prove to you why i think they all fit the classic PG mold too

when he put up 55 pts. & was averaging 23 ppg early in the season & looked like a superstar scorer in the making i didn't hear anyone around here talking about how he would be better suited if he toned down his shot attempts & looked to be more of an orchestrator... his best talent lies in his shotmaking ability in my eyes... he is a special talent, there's no question of that, but i personally don't see MDA & him being a great fit together... just my opinion... he is a PG in the Isiah Thomas mold, not Steve Nash/John Stockton... plus his brashness didn't help matters either, because to me MDA doesn't seem to prefer players with big egos & strong personalities... part of the reason why we didn't scout the kid as heavily as we should have might have been because MDA had his preferred PG's he wanted & Jennings wasn't one of them... just a guess but i could easily see that as a reason seeing as how MDA banished Marbury, passed on signing AI & benched Nate Robinson this season.

also, if this whole offseason plan has been centered on luring Lebron James here, i don't think having a high volume scorer that needs to dominate the ball to be effective would be a great fit either.

let me ask u this, who do u think would be a better fit for a team with Lebron next year & this coach, Jennings or someone like Rubio?

You arent watching games if you say that. Jennings makes the SAME passes every game and runs the same plays. The only difference was Delfino contributed for 4 quarters. Obviously when guys keep bricking you are going to have to put points on the board.

Skiles is a no non-sense coach. If you dont play the way he wants you will be sitting next to him on the bench. Delfino was in the dog house until 3 games ago. Warrick collected a DNP-CD friday after being 3-4 on Wednesday. Boute got 11 minutes Saturday. If you dont contribute you sit. Skiles doesn't play mind games like D'Antoni. If Jennings was throwing up shots he'd be sitting on the sidelines. Jennings hasn't demonstrated any of the negative character traits of Iverson, Marbury, or Robinson yet you bring them up? Why?

i'm not even referring to the negative character traits when i bring up AI, Marbury & Nate, i just think Jennings is best when he plays that style of game... he's a dynamic scorer that is best when he's attacking the basket & i don't think he'd be best served by trying to turn himself into a pass first mentality PG... u're telling me u think he's more Steve Nash than Isiah Thomas?

& u still haven't answered my question... do u think Jennings is the type of PG MDA is looking for or is he looking for someone like Rubio?

I havent seen Rubio play much. Plus last time I checked Rubio was drafted 5th and we drafted 8th. D'Antoni could have liked Griffin more than Hill. I don't see how that matters. I also don't select draft picks to fit a coach that could be fired.

If Nate had Jennings court vision he would have been starting 2 years ago. How many Bucks games have you seen this year?

Oh and Isiah Thomas played defense while Jennnings is a door man. Jennings doesn't fit the mold of anyone single player either.

i think it's pretty obvious MDA didn't like Jennings all that much or else we would have scouted him a lot more heavily & taken him over Jordan Hill. Walsh has gone on record saying he had a couple players in mind on draft night & when they were taken, he went with Jordan Hill who was BPA on their board. if Jennings was a Nash type PG then that's who they would have picked, case closed.

if MDA wanted Jennings he would have made it clear to him that that's who he wanted, & Walsh would have gotten him his man... he obviously didn't otherwise Jennings would be wearing a Knicks' uniform right now... obviously Nate doesn't have Jennings' court vision, but AI & Marbury didn't? again, this is style of play we're talking about here... does Jennings look to score first or does he look to pass first? IMO from what i've read, seen & heard, he's a score first PG... i never said he didn't have court vision or the ability to distribute the ball, i said i thought he would be at his best if he tried to emulate AI more than Nash.

as to your question, i've actually only watched him play a full game once this season against us early on, obviously not a good sample, but i did read all the scouting reports i could get my hands on about him last year in the months leading up to the draft, & i watched as much footage of him in HS & Euro Leagues as i could... also have been following along w/his statlines all year in games he's played in... maybe u don't think that entitles me to have any opinion on Jennings but i'm giving u one anyway... i think that's enough to get a gauge of the TYPE of game a player plays... not all of us are lucky enough to afford League Pass & unfortunately the Bucks don't play any nationally televised games this season.

& this discussion isn't about defense, we're talking about the style of ball these guys play on offense, i think that was fairly obvious... again, i ask u the following:

Do u think Jennings is a score first PG or a pass first PG?
Do u think MDA is looking for a score first PG or a pass first PG?
& if u think MDA is looking for a PG like Jennings, why didn't we pick him?