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How badly do you want Lebron James?
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Cosmic
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1/6/2010  11:09 AM
LeBron needs New York more than the Knicks need LeBron and I think that is the driving force behind Lebron to the Knicks.

Meanwhile to be perfectly honest I think Carmello Anthony is a much better fit for Mike's system than LeBron is. LeBron is a half court defensive minded player. Melo is a gunner. Mikes system fits the gunners.

Put the pieces together and you'll see that Melo is actually a much better fit than LeBron.

That being said I still think we do sign LeBron. More because he wants to further his corporate career over actually wanting to be a Knick. But, well, we'll take it in any form.

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nyk4ever
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1/6/2010  11:11 AM
does a left nut qualify?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
arkrud
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1/6/2010  11:12 AM
Cosmic wrote:LeBron needs New York more than the Knicks need LeBron and I think that is the driving force behind Lebron to the Knicks.

Meanwhile to be perfectly honest I think Carmello Anthony is a much better fit for Mike's system than LeBron is. LeBron is a half court defensive minded player. Melo is a gunner. Mikes system fits the gunners.

Put the pieces together and you'll see that Melo is actually a much better fit than LeBron.

That being said I still think we do sign LeBron. More because he wants to further his corporate career over actually wanting to be a Knick. But, well, we'll take it in any form.

The notion that teams will stay in line to get top FAs is not applicable to NY and LA.
FAs will be bidding to get to big markets.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
orangeblobman
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Nauru
1/6/2010  11:12 AM
nyk4ever wrote:does a left nut qualify?

LOL a left nut. That's rich.

Hey, am I crazy? No. Lebron on the Knicks would kick serious butt and almost guarantee a championship. But is there something to be said for doing it the old fashioned way? For letting Gallo develop into the next Dirk? For patiently waiting until 2011 or beyond and building a contender that way? Yes. There is much to be said, least of all is that if the Knicks choose this direction (or it chooses them), we will have a playoff team and that's more than good enough for me after all these miserable years.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
fishmike
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1/6/2010  12:01 PM
Panos wrote:
metra wrote:Uh oh, looks like I can shamelessly plug the chart I made about All-Stars & draft picks in championship teams. Maybe I should add a HOF column..

As a reminder of the single greatest players on each championship team here it is,
http://media.artemshnayder.com/nba_champs_and_draft_picks.png

Dude, Kobe was not drafted by the Lakers. He was drafted by Charlotte.

you have to be fair.. Kobe was drafted the Lakers. That was a draft day trade. If Cha took Kobe it was on Laker's behalf. Cant really say Kobe was drafted by the Hornets any more than Toney Douglas was drafted by the Knicks. Trading picks and drafted players has different rules.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
jazz74
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1/6/2010  12:25 PM
Cosmic wrote:LeBron needs New York more than the Knicks need LeBron and I think that is the driving force behind Lebron to the Knicks.

Meanwhile to be perfectly honest I think Carmello Anthony is a much better fit for Mike's system than LeBron is. LeBron is a half court defensive minded player. Melo is a gunner. Mikes system fits the gunners.

Put the pieces together and you'll see that Melo is actually a much better fit than LeBron.

That being said I still think we do sign LeBron. More because he wants to further his corporate career over actually wanting to be a Knick. But, well, we'll take it in any form.

i agree with that statement with melo. i think he would be a better fit and market wise it would jumpstart his career which is pretty much invisible in denver. however, the marketing boom for lebron would be tremendous and i think he is a great enough player that he could adapt at any style of offense. as a matter of fact, he would probably win multiple scoring titles under d'antoni's style. i want bron bron more than anyone else tho except maybe chris paul. however, he went down a few pegs the past couple of years.
Panos
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1/6/2010  12:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2010  12:45 PM
fishmike wrote:
Panos wrote:
metra wrote:Uh oh, looks like I can shamelessly plug the chart I made about All-Stars & draft picks in championship teams. Maybe I should add a HOF column..

As a reminder of the single greatest players on each championship team here it is,
http://media.artemshnayder.com/nba_champs_and_draft_picks.png

Dude, Kobe was not drafted by the Lakers. He was drafted by Charlotte.

you have to be fair.. Kobe was drafted the Lakers. That was a draft day trade. If Cha took Kobe it was on Laker's behalf. Cant really say Kobe was drafted by the Hornets any more than Toney Douglas was drafted by the Knicks. Trading picks and drafted players has different rules.

Kobe was not drafted by the Lakers. He was drafted by Charlotte on Jun 26, and traded to the Lakers 5 days later. He was drafted as an asset.

I'm not trying to pick nits here. I get what your saying but it also depends what the point of
that chart is. If it is meant to signify that teams need to aquire picks in order to draft
championship caliber talent, then that's not what LA did.
Moonangie
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1/6/2010  12:49 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2010  12:49 PM
Cosmic wrote:LeBron needs New York more than the Knicks need LeBron and I think that is the driving force behind Lebron to the Knicks.

Meanwhile to be perfectly honest I think Carmello Anthony is a much better fit for Mike's system than LeBron is. LeBron is a half court defensive minded player. Melo is a gunner. Mikes system fits the gunners.

Put the pieces together and you'll see that Melo is actually a much better fit than LeBron.

That being said I still think we do sign LeBron. More because he wants to further his corporate career over actually wanting to be a Knick. But, well, we'll take it in any form.

We have been winning this year with a "half court defensive minded" system. Plug Lebron into that system and we have a new version of MDA. I prefer that (since it has a strong defensive component) to a redo of the run-and-gun, no D system he used previously. A hybrid is really what we have now. It's pretty much the way championship basketball is played (i.e., fast-breaks AND half court sets, and tenacious D).

I want Lebron more than anything in sports because I think he will bring NY hoops back to where it should be in terms of quality of play AND hype, and also because I think it's a lock for at least one championship in the next five years, and as many as three in the next decade.

Doesn't mean we can't win one with Melo or somebody else, but Lebron is our best bet for lasting supremacy in the NBA. And it's about time, too.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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1/6/2010  1:49 PM
Imagine if Lebron develops a post game? Who guards him?

The dude offers so much flexibility in who you add around him.

I know I'm crazy but from a personal standpoint..I want Chris Paul after he gets fed up with NO ownership being forced to cut salary to avoid losing $ (no fault on their part really if the market can't support an NBA team) and wasting his prime.

he's under contract for 2 seasons after this one and then has a player option. i would imagine the hype would reach near (but not quite) Lebron levels for his free agency or if privately demands a trade and it gets leaked.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
crzymdups
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1/6/2010  2:08 PM
metra wrote:Uh oh, looks like I can shamelessly plug the chart I made about All-Stars & draft picks in championship teams. Maybe I should add a HOF column..

As a reminder of the single greatest players on each championship team here it is,
http://media.artemshnayder.com/nba_champs_and_draft_picks.png

I'd argue that while Kevin Garnett did not win the Finals MVP in Boston, he was the MVP of that team. And he was acquired via trade.

¿ △ ?
fishmike
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1/6/2010  3:03 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Imagine if Lebron develops a post game? Who guards him?

The dude offers so much flexibility in who you add around him.

I know I'm crazy but from a personal standpoint..I want Chris Paul after he gets fed up with NO ownership being forced to cut salary to avoid losing $ (no fault on their part really if the market can't support an NBA team) and wasting his prime.

he's under contract for 2 seasons after this one and then has a player option. i would imagine the hype would reach near (but not quite) Lebron levels for his free agency or if privately demands a trade and it gets leaked.


funny you mention that. MDA was once asked what position Lebron would play in his system and MDA without hesitation said power forward. If you see the roles the current Knicks are playing you can see it doesnt matter. Its about 5 guys that are skilled on offense and yes... defend.

Right now Lee initiates most half court possesions so it doesnt really matter. Duhon is a shooter and a guy that takes care of the ball. He creates some, but Clyde said the other night that 70% of his assists are to David Lee, so thats the 2 man game.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Andrew
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1/6/2010  3:06 PM
Panos, there is sufficient evidence out there that points to Kobe being "drafted" by LA.

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2008/jun/18/lakers-trade-for-bryant-has-been-misconstrued/

"The deal was actually done a day ahead of time, and it was Vlade for a player to be named," said Bill Branch, the Hornets' head scout at the time who still operates out of Charlotte as a scout for the Seattle-now-Oklahoma City Sonics. "If I remember right, they didn't even tell us who they wanted us to pick until about five minutes before the pick was made. So it was never a matter of us actually drafting Kobe."

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Panos
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1/6/2010  10:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2010  10:32 PM
Andrew wrote:Panos, there is sufficient evidence out there that points to Kobe being "drafted" by LA.

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2008/jun/18/lakers-trade-for-bryant-has-been-misconstrued/

"The deal was actually done a day ahead of time, and it was Vlade for a player to be named," said Bill Branch, the Hornets' head scout at the time who still operates out of Charlotte as a scout for the Seattle-now-Oklahoma City Sonics. "If I remember right, they didn't even tell us who they wanted us to pick until about five minutes before the pick was made. So it was never a matter of us actually drafting Kobe."

Point conceded.
But I'd still like to know the intended point behind the chart?
Is it that you need to draft well or be lucky at such to succeed in this league?
Is it that franchise talent doesn't jump teams?
These may well very well be true. Just asking.
loweyecue
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1/6/2010  11:03 PM
We need da King (Cobra) to take down da Black Mamba. Dat be da Truth
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
metra
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1/7/2010  1:43 AM
Panos wrote:

Point conceded.
But I'd still like to know the intended point behind the chart?
Is it that you need to draft well or be lucky at such to succeed in this league?
Is it that franchise talent doesn't jump teams?
These may well very well be true. Just asking.

I made it to emphasize the importance of the draft. I'm not sure whether its causation or correlation that championship teams usually have a home grown MVP caliber player. One cause could be that once a team gets that special player, they do everything in their power to stop him. Cleveland, as a city, can't do that much though.

Along those lines, does anyone know why Shaq left Orlando? Or why Orlando couldn't keep Shaq?

My last question: is Danilo Gallinari really our home grown talent? Or is it really David Lee. Both look like they might be good border line All Stars. But to win in this league you need Lebron and a STRONG supporting cast. Just look at the Lakers. Or the Celtics. Their teams were stacked with talent. I do know one thing. We could have had that homegrown talent but Donnie blew it. Big time. That homegrown *MVP caliber* player could have been Brandon Jennings.
scoshin
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1/7/2010  4:17 PM
Long time reader of UK, first time posting:

Along those lines, does anyone know why Shaq left Orlando? Or why Orlando couldn't keep Shaq?

Shaq left because LA offered more money. Restrictions on max contracts and raises were not part of the CBA back then, and there was no such thing as a "restricted" FA. In fact, I think Shaq leaving was the reason the NBA created the "restricted FA" rule, so that teams could match any offer made to their players coming off a rookie contract.

We no longer have that same advantage, so money won't be one of the reasons LeBron comes to NY (unless the Nike rumors are true)
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