McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2.

how is this so?

So if you have a guy shooting 40% from downtown bombs away.. thats a high % shot.

Thing to look at is the EFG%

fishmike wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2.

how is this so?

shoot 4-10 from 3 (40%) you score 12 points
shoot 6-10 inside the line (60%) you score 12 points

So if you have a guy shooting 40% from downtown bombs away.. thats a high % shot.

Thing to look at is the EFG%

faulty logic. unless you are getting stops everytime down to offset the amount of misses, you lose the percentages battle.

NYKBocker wrote:I have no problem with us taking a lot of 3s as long as it is open looks. Just as long it is not Fishlips who is taking the shot.

Yea but tell me that Fishlips three in the 4th last night didn't feel OH SO GOOD?!?

martin wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2.

how is this so?

shoot 4-10 from 3 (40%) you score 12 points
shoot 6-10 inside the line (60%) you score 12 points

So if you have a guy shooting 40% from downtown bombs away.. thats a high % shot.

Thing to look at is the EFG%

faulty logic. unless you are getting stops everytime down to offset the amount of misses, you lose the percentages battle.

even your logic doesn't hold up.... one could tack on the fact that shooting 40% from 3pt land offers the opportunity for the offense to grab extra long offensive rebounds.

and then one can tack on to that it gives the defense the opportunity to grab extra long rebounds and get out on breaks for easy scores.

as for my logic, assuming a possession ends with a miss and a rebound, there is a 20% difference in efficiency with shooting 6-10 from two vs 4-10 from three before even considering the offensive production of the opposing team.

fishmike wrote:

martin wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2.

how is this so?

shoot 4-10 from 3 (40%) you score 12 points
shoot 6-10 inside the line (60%) you score 12 points

So if you have a guy shooting 40% from downtown bombs away.. thats a high % shot.

Thing to look at is the EFG%

faulty logic. unless you are getting stops everytime down to offset the amount of misses, you lose the percentages battle.

even your logic doesn't hold up.... one could tack on the fact that shooting 40% from 3pt land offers the opportunity for the offense to grab extra long offensive rebounds.

there is no logic. This is why I dont put too much stock into stats. You gotta watch and determine if the shots are good or not.

Would you agree that a big part of the Knicks success of late has simply been more effort on things like loose balls? They play a small line up, and their a jump shooting team. Their best bet at extra possesions are tracking down those lose balls, steals, deflections. They dont have bruisers that can hit that offensive glass

knicks are taking the ball inside more and getting to the line. In wins (which are all recent) NY has attempted 25.5 free throws and 24.5 threes. In losses NY has attempted 30.1 threes 19.1 free throws

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/stats/byteam?cat1=Splits&cat2=50&conference=NBA&year=season_2009

You know how much easier Robert Horry made Shaq and Duncan's job. Or Rasheed Wallace made Ben Wallace's job or Rashard Lewis and Turk made Dwight Howard's job.

David Lee can attribute a lot of this seasons success for the amount of spacing they have been able to provide him to grab rebounds, PNR or go one on one.

The being able to attack the paint and knock down the 3s go hand in hand. If you can't knock down the 3s then opponents will just pack the lanes and dare us to shoot. If you can't penetrate then opponents will press up on the shooters not respecting our ability to penitrate.

Our ability to penetrate recently can be attributed to our ability to knock down 3s.

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2.

how is this so?

shoot 4-10 from 3 (40%) you score 12 points
shoot 6-10 inside the line (60%) you score 12 points

So if you have a guy shooting 40% from downtown bombs away.. thats a high % shot.

Thing to look at is the EFG%

faulty logic. unless you are getting stops everytime down to offset the amount of misses, you lose the percentages battle.

even your logic doesn't hold up.... one could tack on the fact that shooting 40% from 3pt land offers the opportunity for the offense to grab extra long offensive rebounds.

as for my logic, assuming a possession ends with a miss and a rebound, there is a 20% difference in efficiency with shooting 6-10 from two vs 4-10 from three before even considering the offensive production of the opposing team.

There is a 50% difference in efficiency, between 60% and 40%. 60 is 1.5 times 40.

There is also a 50% difference in points allocated. 3 points are 1.5 times 2 points.

It's a wash.

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:

McK1 wrote:

martin wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

McK1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:40% from 3 is the same as 60% from 2.

how is this so?

shoot 4-10 from 3 (40%) you score 12 points
shoot 6-10 inside the line (60%) you score 12 points

So if you have a guy shooting 40% from downtown bombs away.. thats a high % shot.

Thing to look at is the EFG%

faulty logic. unless you are getting stops everytime down to offset the amount of misses, you lose the percentages battle.

even your logic doesn't hold up.... one could tack on the fact that shooting 40% from 3pt land offers the opportunity for the offense to grab extra long offensive rebounds.

and then one can tack on to that it gives the defense the opportunity to grab extra long rebounds and get out on breaks for easy scores.

as for my logic, assuming a possession ends with a miss and a rebound, there is a 20% difference in efficiency with shooting 6-10 from two vs 4-10 from three before even considering the offensive production of the opposing team.

holy pointless.

i thought the same thing of your initial reply to me but its not my board to **** on

all i know is it seems as if you don't understand eFG%. or simple math.

kam77 wrote:

There is a 50% difference in efficiency, between 60% and 40%. 60 is 1.5 times 40.

There is also a 50% difference in points allocated. 3 points are 1.5 times 2 points.

It's a wash.

how is it a wash? unless you are in a gym shooting alone the outcome of those 6 misses vs 4 matters

McK1 wrote:

kam77 wrote:

There is a 50% difference in efficiency, between 60% and 40%. 60 is 1.5 times 40.

There is also a 50% difference in points allocated. 3 points are 1.5 times 2 points.

It's a wash.

how is it a wash? unless you are in a gym shooting alone the outcome of those 6 misses vs 4 matters

I think if you calculated the percentage of rebounds that lead to fast breaks you would find a higher percentage of breaks off of the three point shot.

BRIGGS wrote:

OldFan wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

OldFan wrote:On another thread we had a conversation about the three point shot and how important it was or wasn't. From stats above teams this year are getting between 11 - 31% of their pts from 3 pts shots. Most of the good teams are getting 20% or more of their pts from 3 pointers.

It's a niche part of the game. The best team in the league and NBA champs take 18% of their shots from 3. That means they focus us taking good high quality shots rebounding and defense and use the 3 at times when it's a good shot or too help spread the floor.

Gallo's night is a good example or even a John Starks going way back game 6 Houston---it's fool's gold when you over use the shot. Taking more than 20% will catch up with you when it counts. It's a long season and it's a long shot. In the playoffs you need to make shots play D and rebound and protect the ball. the 3 ball is a niche shot/part of the game.

If Gallo continues his excessive pace from 3 he will drift under 40%

I hope Gallo does start taking less three pointers also.

I don't like the 3 pt shot very much - never have - but 20% is more then a fringe part of the game.

20% is a small %--I don't know what else to say? Also how many 3 point shots create foul shot opportunities? Very very low. It's a niche part of the game--it can be an important niche but you want to have your main focus on taking good shots protecting the ball playing good defense + rebounding. An open 3 is a good shot if taken by the right players. It's a good shot to help spread the floor and create momentum--after that--if it is used too frequently--well lets go back to when we were losing games by 20 early in the season. We have shot a lower % of them since.

I think number of foul shots correlates much better to shots in the paint/post then it does with 2 pt shots.
A lot of two pt shots are jump shots and jump shooters don't get fouled that often. From below we can see that the
negative correlation between percentage of pts from three pt shots and foul shots is not that strong.

I agree a team can and the Knicks have taken too many 3 ptrs but it's a large part of the current game 20% of pts scored and has a large effect on how teams play offense and defense.

                                                                                                 % pts from
                     overall                   3ptrs                         FT                 2ptrs   3ptrs   FT
Suns 	        40.6    82.4	49.3	9.3	21.9	42.5	17.8	23.9	74.2	108.3	57.80%	25.76%	16.44%
Bucks 	        38	87.2	43.6	8.2	22	37	13.9	19.4	71.8	98	60.82%	25.10%	14.18%
Hornets 	37.4	83.9	44.6	7.7	21.8	35.5	15.6	20.4	76.5	98.1	60.55%	23.55%	15.90%
Cavaliers 	36.9	77	47.9	7.5	17.7	42.1	18.4	25	73.5	99.6	59.04%	22.59%	18.47%
Rockets 	38.1	84.9	44.9	7.5	22.2	33.8	17.9	23.5	76.1	101.5	60.30%	22.17%	17.64%
Spurs 	        37.8	79	47.8	7.2	18.4	38.9	19.1	25.8	74	101.9	60.06%	21.20%	18.74%
Mavericks 	37.9	83	45.7	6.9	18.9	36.3	18.2	22.8	80	100.9	61.45%	20.52%	18.04%
Celtics 	37.7	77	49	6.8	18.9	36	19.3	25.2	76.4	101.5	60.89%	20.10%	19.01%
Trail Blazers 	34.5	76.7	45	6.4	18	35.8	20.5	26.2	78.3	96	58.54%	20.00%	21.35%
Pacers    	35.5	81.9	43.3	6.4	20.3	31.7	19.9	25.9	76.8	97.3	59.82%	19.73%	20.45%
Kings 	        39.3	83.3	47.2	6.7	18.4	36.4	18.6	25.8	72.3	103.9	62.75%	19.35%	17.90%
Raptors 	37.9	81.1	46.8	6.6	18	36.6	21.3	27.7	77.1	103.8	60.31%	19.08%	20.52%
Hawks 	        40.4	85.5	47.2	6.7	18.4	36.1	18.1	23.7	76.5	105.5	63.89%	19.05%	17.16%
Lakers 	        39.4	85.4	46.2	6.4	19.5	33.1	18.2	23.8	76.6	103.6	63.71%	18.53%	17.57%
76ers 	        37	82.3	44.9	5.9	17.3	34	17.8	22.9	77.9	97.6	63.73%	18.14%	18.24%
Warriors 	40	85.2	47	6.3	17.5	36	20.1	25.8	77.9	106.5	63.29%	17.75%	18.87%
Heat 	        36.4	78.6	46.3	5.7	16.6	34.3	19.4	25.7	75.3	97.9	62.72%	17.47%	19.82%
Wizards 	36.8	83.1	44.3	5.6	17.1	32.7	19.8	26.4	75.1	99	63.03%	16.97%	20.00%
Bobcats 	33.5	76.5	43.8	5	16	31.5	19.2	26.7	71.9	91.2	62.50%	16.45%	21.05%
Nuggets 	37.5	80.2	46.8	5.8	16	36.5	26.5	32.7	80.9	107.3	59.09%	16.22%	24.70%
Thunder 	35.7	79.5	44.9	5.2	16.2	31.8	20.9	25.9	80.5	97.4	62.63%	16.02%	21.46%
Clippers 	36.6	79.5	46.1	4.8	15.5	30.9	17.6	24.2	73	95.6	66.53%	15.06%	18.41%
Pistons 	35.1	78.9	44.5	4.1	14.2	29.2	18.3	25.2	72.5	92.6	66.95%	13.28%	19.76%
Jazz 	        38.8	79.2	48.9	4.3	12.7	33.4	19.5	26.4	73.8	101.2	68.18%	12.75%	19.27%
Nets 	        33.5	80.8	41.5	3.6	13.3	26.8	18.8	24.1	77.9	89.4	66.89%	12.08%	21.03%
Timberwolves 	37.3	84.4	44.2	3.6	12.5	28.9	15.9	22	72.4	94.1	71.63%	11.48%	16.90%
Bulls 	        35.4	82.9	42.7	3.4	11.3	29.9	16.7	22.4	74.6	90.9	70.41%	11.22%	18.37%
Grizzlies 	39.8	83.1	47.9	3.5	11.3	30.8	19.3	26.5	72.9	102.4	70.90%	10.25%	18.85%