IF we trade Lee and don't geta big back but some high prospect young guard, can you envision a team that fields three bigs like Bender, Hill and Gallo that can run the floor, pass and spread the defense? Al may or may not be part of that rotation. On the other side of the ball they will be able to block shots, force some steals. Hill can grow into a PF or C it's not a set thing with MDA offense is it? His offense is about spacing and guys who can run and pass and shoot. Lee can do those things but these guys are much cheaper and we are in all likelyhood not going to sign Lee in 2010 because of the cap situation. IF we trade Lee it can be Bender AND Hill, there is no hard and fast rule it has to be Bender OR Hill.

Why is it such a bad idea to see if we can get a good serviceable big guy on the cheap, don't you see how much flexibility it will give us in trading Lee or letting him walk later on? And how do we find out if Bender can fill in without playing him? Jordan Hill is more of a known quantity he will deliver.

TMS wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:

sidsanders wrote:why is bender coming in before hill? i have given up any hope curry will ever be able to play well to help ny. maybe he will figure it out for some other team.

i can't figure that one out either... how does a guy who we picked up off the scrap heap that hasn't played in 4 years mean more to us than playing our #8 lottery pick does? i don't get it at all... having Bender here is fine, i got no problem w/that, but seeing him get minutes over Hill or even Curry at this point just doesn't make sense... our longterm future is predicated on the development of Hill & on trying to get Curry's trade value up, not on Bender having a resurgence in the NBA... that can happen AFTER the trade deadline... i have no idea WTF MDA is doing w/the way he's been handling Jordan Hill.

Exactly. You raise some good points. MDA's handling of J. Hill's definitely the biggest mystery I've even seen, that's for sure...

You gotta figure Hill's just not ready - or not that good- and/or doesn't fit anywhere in the current scheme.

i think he's very good... Finestrg will attest to that i'm sure, he watched plenty of Arizona games last year when we were discussing Hill, Wise & Budinger as prospects... i'm no draft guru just giving my overall impression of his game... if he wasn't a great fit for what MDA wanted to run here we wouldn't have taken him to begin with... i dunno what's going on w/him but whether MDA deems him ready or not, i think he should absolutely be seeing regular burn after the trade deadline passes, playoffs or no playoffs.

Yeah, I'm with TMS all the way. You know what I think? I think a lot of people on this board that constantly have negative things to say about Mr. Hill never saw him play even one game for 'Zona and just go on the one or two summer league games they saw where he didn't dominate, the one or two pre-season games where he made his share of mistakes, or one of the earlier regular season games where Mike did manage to get him a quick look in garbage time, etc. (where he's excelled for the most part btw)...If you've followed this kid from the college ranks like we have, then you'd know that these handful of pro games are obviously not what you should be looking at to fully evaluate him properly. Unfortunately, that's exactly what's gone on here...

I honestly don't know what to tell those people other than to say they should be a little more patient. He can play. Trust me...I know for a fact we got a good player and D'Antoni, for whatever reason, has chosen to neglect him almost the entire year so far, save for a few cup of coffee mins. here and there. I have a problem with it. A big problem. Like everyone, I want to win first and foremost but I understand the time for winning and really competing on a top level game in and game out just isn't there yet. In order to get there, we need to develop our youth and see if these guys are players or not. I want to see if Hill can be a part of that or not...What's wrong with that? Just because some of you have seen Hill make some mistakes early on 25' from the basket or in some other awkward position MDA's had him on the floor doesn't mean he doesn't know his craft and isn't a good player and a fully capable big-man with well-above average skills. He had some trouble trying to adapt to a new role and a new way of playing for a big man. No problem, he was learning and getting better...And then all of a sudden, poof...he never played anymore....Now we go out and get Jonathan Bender, a guy who hasn't played in 4 years, and play him ahead of Hill after only a couple of practices??? Come on, does that sound right to anyone?? This guy Bender obviously has some skills and something to offer (it's not really about Bender - I like the move, bringing Bender in), but to come this far and not really know what you have with Hill has been a mistake. I have no idea man -- I'm beginning to think it might be a personal problem D'Antoni has with Hill - maybe something Hill did or said that rubbed Mike the wrong way. Possibly similar to the problem he has with Nate, only on a smaller scale, smaller in that we haven't heard about it and it isn't the circus/distraction the Nate situation is. Who knows? I tell you what we do know, you do something to piss D'Antoni off, however small, he'll put you right in the doghouse, whether you can play or not (Nate).

You wanna say stuff like Hill's "raw" (which I can't ever bear to read anymore from some of these misinformed fans -- that's pure nonsense - the man came to us with a highly-developed skill set, a skill set the organization and D'Antoni specifically have done nothing to improve upon) or now the fashionable "he's not ready" slogan, OK. I don't agree at all, but OK..Question for you guys: How's he supposed to get any better???????? Just sit there and collect dust? You guys do want him to get better right? You guys want to see some progress out of our lottery selection right? Well right now, he's nothing more than the rookie that carries everyone's bags in the airports and hotels... Nah. No good. We're not a good enough team to treat Hill like that. He's better than that. That's for the Marcus Landrys on this team (and no offense to Landry)...Hill was a lottery pick and rightly so. He showed in college that he clearly had the ability to earn that high a selection. No question about it. Now the Knicks need to do something with him. Either you send him to the D-League to restart the development process or you work him into the rotation the same way you quickly did with Bender. Anything other than that is a mistake and a complete waste of a good talent... No one can convince me otherwise.. It's to the point where I'm so disgusted with how he's been handled by the coach that I'd rather not even discuss it anymore...

Marv wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:I've never seen Hill play for any substantial period, and I haven't said anything negative about him. I can only deduce that he's not ready for NBA action based on that fact that he's not playing. Either that or has an irrational dislike for him.

mike's hair is on the way out and he's jealous.

That would explain it.

holfresh wrote:
This has to be the worst basketball I have seen in my 35+ of watching NY Knick basketball…The Rory Sparrow years were bad, but this is certainly up there…Please don’t tell MDA is a good coach, I’m not buying it… How is jacking up threes in Seven Seconds Or Less a good concept for winning basketball in the NBA… Playoff basketball is usually won because of defense, rebounding, and knocking down free throws… None of which are the Knicks’ emphasis…Our emphasis is knocking down threes…If we hit them then it’s a great game…If we don’t hit them, then we are jacking up threes and not taking them in the flow of the game… Jared Jeffries took more threes in preseason than he took twos…

The kids are not learning to play the game in what Larry Brown would say “the right way“…Chandler has game… He looks like he can post and is very effective driving the ball to the hole…We just don’t see enough of it…He jacks up way too many threes…Gallo took 15 three point shots against Chicago and it’s not the most he has taken this season in a single game…He too, looks like he can post, but we will never know will we….

For the life of me, please explain why John Bender is making it off the bench before Curry… Curry at his best means more to this organization than Bender at his best….Are we really trying to win now?? Really??…U are not winning this game without inside presence…Dlee, who is having a great year on the offensive end, is not inside presence…By the way, do we have another play besides the pick and roll???

And why is Nate at the end of MDA’s bench???…Why was Marbs at the end of MDA’s bench???…Can 6-8 guys really play 42 mins a game for the rest of the season….Seeing what happened to Duhon last year wasn’t enough I guess…When does anyone start questioning what MDA is trying to do here…Does he get a pass until we sign a big free agent???…So three years into the job is when he gets scrutinized??…It’s going to be a long season…..

Why SHOULDN'T he be at the end of his bench? You tell me what Nate has done to help this team win. You tell me if Nate has matured even one ounce since he was drafted. You tell me if Nate plays defense or within the offense. You tell me if Nate showboats like a toll after every basket. Nate Robinson is not all that you think he is. He doesn't make a difference in the W/L column and obviously hasn't since he's been here. He is all style and no substance. He is right where he belongs.

Marbury? You're really going there? That cracked out fool who torpedoed the franchise with Isiah deserved better? Yeah..no.

Also, Eddy Curry is a waste of space. He is not in shape and really hurts the team when he's out on the floor. He is just no ready to play.

Papabear wrote:

AbrahamLincoln wrote:

holfresh wrote:
This has to be the worst basketball I have seen in my 35+ of watching NY Knick basketball…The Rory Sparrow years were bad, but this is certainly up there…Please don’t tell MDA is a good coach, I’m not buying it… How is jacking up threes in Seven Seconds Or Less a good concept for winning basketball in the NBA… Playoff basketball is usually won because of defense, rebounding, and knocking down free throws… None of which are the Knicks’ emphasis…Our emphasis is knocking down threes…If we hit them then it’s a great game…If we don’t hit them, then we are jacking up threes and not taking them in the flow of the game… Jared Jeffries took more threes in preseason than he took twos…

The kids are not learning to play the game in what Larry Brown would say “the right way“…Chandler has game… He looks like he can post and is very effective driving the ball to the hole…We just don’t see enough of it…He jacks up way too many threes…Gallo took 15 three point shots against Chicago and it’s not the most he has taken this season in a single game…He too, looks like he can post, but we will never know will we….

For the life of me, please explain why John Bender is making it off the bench before Curry… Curry at his best means more to this organization than Bender at his best….Are we really trying to win now?? Really??…U are not winning this game without inside presence…Dlee, who is having a great year on the offensive end, is not inside presence…By the way, do we have another play besides the pick and roll???

And why is Nate at the end of MDA’s bench???…Why was Marbs at the end of MDA’s bench???…Can 6-8 guys really play 42 mins a game for the rest of the season….Seeing what happened to Duhon last year wasn’t enough I guess…When does anyone start questioning what MDA is trying to do here…Does he get a pass until we sign a big free agent???…So three years into the job is when he gets scrutinized??…It’s going to be a long season…..

Why SHOULDN'T he be at the end of his bench? You tell me what Nate has done to help this team win. You tell me if Nate has matured even one ounce since he was drafted. You tell me if Nate plays defense or within the offense. You tell me if Nate showboats like a toll after every basket. Nate Robinson is not all that you think he is. He doesn't make a difference in the W/L column and obviously hasn't since he's been here. He is all style and no substance. He is right where he belongs.

Marbury? You're really going there? That cracked out fool who torpedoed the franchise with Isiah deserved better? Yeah..no.

Also, Eddy Curry is a waste of space. He is not in shape and really hurts the team when he's out on the floor. He is just no ready to play.

Papabear Says

Who will you bring in to take Nates place? Nate has grown but the team has'nt. When will Mike D be judge on the job he is doing.

Nate isn't valuable to this team, end of story. So with that being said, I don't have any guys to replace him. He's not a guy I think of "replacing" because he isn't vital to the team.

Nate Robinson has not matured as a person on the court at all. Not sure what you've seen from him to suggest that. Maybe it's that time against Orlando this season when we were down by 10 and he hits a shot in the 4th and starts showboating to the crowd running back...and Orlando just pushes the ball and scores while this idiot is celebrating. Mind you, we had a horrible record and we were losing. Just one example of many.

AbrahamLincoln wrote:

holfresh wrote:
This has to be the worst basketball I have seen in my 35+ of watching NY Knick basketball…The Rory Sparrow years were bad, but this is certainly up there…Please don’t tell MDA is a good coach, I’m not buying it… How is jacking up threes in Seven Seconds Or Less a good concept for winning basketball in the NBA… Playoff basketball is usually won because of defense, rebounding, and knocking down free throws… None of which are the Knicks’ emphasis…Our emphasis is knocking down threes…If we hit them then it’s a great game…If we don’t hit them, then we are jacking up threes and not taking them in the flow of the game… Jared Jeffries took more threes in preseason than he took twos…

The kids are not learning to play the game in what Larry Brown would say “the right way“…Chandler has game… He looks like he can post and is very effective driving the ball to the hole…We just don’t see enough of it…He jacks up way too many threes…Gallo took 15 three point shots against Chicago and it’s not the most he has taken this season in a single game…He too, looks like he can post, but we will never know will we….

For the life of me, please explain why John Bender is making it off the bench before Curry… Curry at his best means more to this organization than Bender at his best….Are we really trying to win now?? Really??…U are not winning this game without inside presence…Dlee, who is having a great year on the offensive end, is not inside presence…By the way, do we have another play besides the pick and roll???

And why is Nate at the end of MDA’s bench???…Why was Marbs at the end of MDA’s bench???…Can 6-8 guys really play 42 mins a game for the rest of the season….Seeing what happened to Duhon last year wasn’t enough I guess…When does anyone start questioning what MDA is trying to do here…Does he get a pass until we sign a big free agent???…So three years into the job is when he gets scrutinized??…It’s going to be a long season…..

Why SHOULDN'T he be at the end of his bench? You tell me what Nate has done to help this team win. You tell me if Nate has matured even one ounce since he was drafted. You tell me if Nate plays defense or within the offense. You tell me if Nate showboats like a toll after every basket. Nate Robinson is not all that you think he is. He doesn't make a difference in the W/L column and obviously hasn't since he's been here. He is all style and no substance. He is right where he belongs.

Marbury? You're really going there? That cracked out fool who torpedoed the franchise with Isiah deserved better? Yeah..no.

Also, Eddy Curry is a waste of space. He is not in shape and really hurts the team when he's out on the floor. He is just no ready to play.

If the measure for a player to be on the court in a Knick uniform is helping the team win, then no one deserves to get off the bench...Nate has not matured but our coaching staff should be...Two guys on this team plays defense...Jeffries and Chandler...This along with the Marbury situation could have been handled better...Nate has now been devalued in terms of trading him..How does that help the Knicks?...

Ill take Marbury 20 times on Sunday over our current point guard...But that's just me...We are stuck with Curry the kid is 40 pounds lighter than when he was at his best...We aren't making the playoffs...We don't have a draft pick...We don't have a better inside option...What exactly do we have to lose, playing time for Bender?, lost opportunities to jack more threes??...I really don't get it...

Marv wrote:

holfresh wrote:Two guys on this team plays defense...Jeffries and Chandler

gallinari and douglas do as well. hughes at times.

Ill take Marbury 20 times on Sunday over our current point guard.

then wave goodbye to your credibility son.

True, Hughes has been stellar on D..Gallo tries...But Duhon is that bad...

AbrahamLincoln wrote:

holfresh wrote:

AbrahamLincoln wrote:

holfresh wrote:
This has to be the worst basketball I have seen in my 35+ of watching NY Knick basketball…The Rory Sparrow years were bad, but this is certainly up there…Please don’t tell MDA is a good coach, I’m not buying it… How is jacking up threes in Seven Seconds Or Less a good concept for winning basketball in the NBA… Playoff basketball is usually won because of defense, rebounding, and knocking down free throws… None of which are the Knicks’ emphasis…Our emphasis is knocking down threes…If we hit them then it’s a great game…If we don’t hit them, then we are jacking up threes and not taking them in the flow of the game… Jared Jeffries took more threes in preseason than he took twos…

The kids are not learning to play the game in what Larry Brown would say “the right way“…Chandler has game… He looks like he can post and is very effective driving the ball to the hole…We just don’t see enough of it…He jacks up way too many threes…Gallo took 15 three point shots against Chicago and it’s not the most he has taken this season in a single game…He too, looks like he can post, but we will never know will we….

For the life of me, please explain why John Bender is making it off the bench before Curry… Curry at his best means more to this organization than Bender at his best….Are we really trying to win now?? Really??…U are not winning this game without inside presence…Dlee, who is having a great year on the offensive end, is not inside presence…By the way, do we have another play besides the pick and roll???

And why is Nate at the end of MDA’s bench???…Why was Marbs at the end of MDA’s bench???…Can 6-8 guys really play 42 mins a game for the rest of the season….Seeing what happened to Duhon last year wasn’t enough I guess…When does anyone start questioning what MDA is trying to do here…Does he get a pass until we sign a big free agent???…So three years into the job is when he gets scrutinized??…It’s going to be a long season…..

Why SHOULDN'T he be at the end of his bench? You tell me what Nate has done to help this team win. You tell me if Nate has matured even one ounce since he was drafted. You tell me if Nate plays defense or within the offense. You tell me if Nate showboats like a toll after every basket. Nate Robinson is not all that you think he is. He doesn't make a difference in the W/L column and obviously hasn't since he's been here. He is all style and no substance. He is right where he belongs.

Marbury? You're really going there? That cracked out fool who torpedoed the franchise with Isiah deserved better? Yeah..no.

Also, Eddy Curry is a waste of space. He is not in shape and really hurts the team when he's out on the floor. He is just no ready to play.

If the measure for a player to be on the court in a Knick uniform is helping the team win, then no one deserves to get off the bench...Nate has not matured but our coaching staff should be...Two guys on this team plays defense...Jeffries and Chandler...This along with the Marbury situation could have been handled better...Nate has now been devalued in terms of trading him..How does that help the Knicks?...

Ill take Marbury 20 times on Sunday over our current point guard...But that's just me...We are stuck with Curry the kid is 40 pounds lighter than when he was at his best...We aren't making the playoffs...We don't have a draft pick...We don't have a better inside option...What exactly do we have to lose, playing time for Bender?, lost opportunities to jack more threes??...I really don't get it...

Because he had lots of value this summer...

Anyway, nobody expected to be good this season. It's called transitioning from complete garbage to a new era. This is the 2nd and last year of that transition. And no, Mr. Vaseline would not have made a difference last season or this season, just as he proved in his entire time in NY.

So you are saying MDA's stunt has not hurt Nate's trade value?

holfresh wrote:

AbrahamLincoln wrote:

holfresh wrote:

AbrahamLincoln wrote:

holfresh wrote:
This has to be the worst basketball I have seen in my 35+ of watching NY Knick basketball…The Rory Sparrow years were bad, but this is certainly up there…Please don’t tell MDA is a good coach, I’m not buying it… How is jacking up threes in Seven Seconds Or Less a good concept for winning basketball in the NBA… Playoff basketball is usually won because of defense, rebounding, and knocking down free throws… None of which are the Knicks’ emphasis…Our emphasis is knocking down threes…If we hit them then it’s a great game…If we don’t hit them, then we are jacking up threes and not taking them in the flow of the game… Jared Jeffries took more threes in preseason than he took twos…

The kids are not learning to play the game in what Larry Brown would say “the right way“…Chandler has game… He looks like he can post and is very effective driving the ball to the hole…We just don’t see enough of it…He jacks up way too many threes…Gallo took 15 three point shots against Chicago and it’s not the most he has taken this season in a single game…He too, looks like he can post, but we will never know will we….

For the life of me, please explain why John Bender is making it off the bench before Curry… Curry at his best means more to this organization than Bender at his best….Are we really trying to win now?? Really??…U are not winning this game without inside presence…Dlee, who is having a great year on the offensive end, is not inside presence…By the way, do we have another play besides the pick and roll???

And why is Nate at the end of MDA’s bench???…Why was Marbs at the end of MDA’s bench???…Can 6-8 guys really play 42 mins a game for the rest of the season….Seeing what happened to Duhon last year wasn’t enough I guess…When does anyone start questioning what MDA is trying to do here…Does he get a pass until we sign a big free agent???…So three years into the job is when he gets scrutinized??…It’s going to be a long season…..

Why SHOULDN'T he be at the end of his bench? You tell me what Nate has done to help this team win. You tell me if Nate has matured even one ounce since he was drafted. You tell me if Nate plays defense or within the offense. You tell me if Nate showboats like a toll after every basket. Nate Robinson is not all that you think he is. He doesn't make a difference in the W/L column and obviously hasn't since he's been here. He is all style and no substance. He is right where he belongs.

Marbury? You're really going there? That cracked out fool who torpedoed the franchise with Isiah deserved better? Yeah..no.

Also, Eddy Curry is a waste of space. He is not in shape and really hurts the team when he's out on the floor. He is just no ready to play.

If the measure for a player to be on the court in a Knick uniform is helping the team win, then no one deserves to get off the bench...Nate has not matured but our coaching staff should be...Two guys on this team plays defense...Jeffries and Chandler...This along with the Marbury situation could have been handled better...Nate has now been devalued in terms of trading him..How does that help the Knicks?...

Ill take Marbury 20 times on Sunday over our current point guard...But that's just me...We are stuck with Curry the kid is 40 pounds lighter than when he was at his best...We aren't making the playoffs...We don't have a draft pick...We don't have a better inside option...What exactly do we have to lose, playing time for Bender?, lost opportunities to jack more threes??...I really don't get it...

Because he had lots of value this summer...

Anyway, nobody expected to be good this season. It's called transitioning from complete garbage to a new era. This is the 2nd and last year of that transition. And no, Mr. Vaseline would not have made a difference last season or this season, just as he proved in his entire time in NY.

So you are saying MDA's stunt has not hurt Nate's trade value?

How can one hurt someone's trade value when they had none to begin with?

OldFan wrote:Anyone could have signed Nate without giving up anything this summer. If it hurt Nate's trade value it went from very little to none. Hardly a major mistake and the Knicks have played better since he's been benched.

sorry OldFan but i just don't see how u can reason that letting a 1st round pick w/Nate's talent & ability walk for nothing is anything but a mistake... it's not like Nate was a bust, everyone knows he's a dynamic scorer with hyperactive tendencies... he's not a malcontent cancer like Marbury was.

this could have easily been avoided by trading him last year for some kind of asset... things didn't need to get to this level, but MDA decided to make a spectacle of the situation & now Nate's value is completely gone in all likelihood... all this was completely unnecessary.