Also Duhon kills me with the amount of layups he passes up...he gets all the way to the rim and passes it back out...Douglas finishes those plays inside. Douglas also wouldn't pull up 40ft away from the basket on a fast break.

EnySpree wrote:aside from that, his ball handling, defense and shooting is totally what this team needs.....I mean he zips the ball up the court every time and he doesn't take breaks on defense. He's shooting 49% from the field. He's been incredible. He can get anywhere he needs to go off the dribble. Confidence and fear don't seem to be a concern for this dude.

As far as assists...I been trying to figure out why he hasn't been able to get assists...well truthfully, there hasn't been opportunities. On the pick and roll he's had the option to pass to the roller, but they have been covered...but he hasn't just help on to the rock....he he hit the second option on that play or took the better shot which he has been knocking down.

I say forget signing a point guard...knicks already have him in Toney Douglas.

i like the kid but he hasn't shown me any PG instincts at all... he's an undersized SG

kam77 wrote:The only thing you need to be a PG is a pass-first mentality.

just having a pass first mentality doesn't mean anything unless u have the court vision & awareness to make the right decisions w/the ball & set guys up in the right spots for easy baskets... it's not easy to run an offense & get ur teammates involved before looking for ur own shots

TMS wrote:

kam77 wrote:The only thing you need to be a PG is a pass-first mentality.

just having a pass first mentality doesn't mean anything unless u have the court vision & awareness to make the right decisions w/the ball & set guys up in the right spots for easy baskets... it's not easy to run an offense & get ur teammates involved before looking for ur own shots

But if Toney is open or if he has a driving lane....he scores it at 49% clip. Everything he does is within the flow.

whether or not he has the ability to be john stockton is irrelevant to his impact on the team when he is in there. I don't agree with the fact that D'antoni needs a ball dominating point guard for his system to work...His system is ball movement, pick and rolling cutting, and moving. The ball should be moving around with everyone getting a shot at making a good pass. Toney Douglas is doing a great job at that...labeling him a combo guard isn't fair.

On this team...what is Duhon??? A guy that shoots 40 foot 3pters before his team crosses the half court line is a pure point guard??? Duhon has been a combo guard his whole career especially in Duke.

Toney Douglas needs to be handed this team right now....Toney was the best point guard on the floor last night on either team.

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:combo guards seem to be more common than a true point. If you have two on the floor does it equal a true one?

So I know you have followed Toney throughout college, etc. What's your take on how well this kid can learn the PG position?

I was actually more impressed with his PG tangibles in the summer league than I have seen recently, but that may just be because has been playing Douglas off the ball. Or perhaps the time spent on the floor is just too little to notice a bigger PG landscape. I know don't, but especially during the 4th quarter of the ORL game last night, I didn't see much from Toney outside of shooting skills (and D) and not much in the way of running an offense.

thoughts? I know these things take a few years.

In order to pass well I think first you need the other team to respect your outside shot so they don't sag on to your target. He's got that now I think. Pro game the players are taller and faster and better schooled. I believe the openings are smaller and Toney unsure at times would rather do something else rather than force it in and have a turnover. The ball is the most precious thing in the game and he gets that.

I think you really hit it. This kid understands that turnovers kill your team and he does not want to turn the ball over so he is only doing what he is comfortable doing. If the coaching staff runs this kid through pick and roll drills all summer to where he is making those passing 100-200 times each day, by the time next season starts, he will be able to run the plays as well as Duhon with the added benefit of actually being able to hit an outside shot or drive to the hoop.

EnySpree wrote:

TMS wrote:

kam77 wrote:The only thing you need to be a PG is a pass-first mentality.

just having a pass first mentality doesn't mean anything unless u have the court vision & awareness to make the right decisions w/the ball & set guys up in the right spots for easy baskets... it's not easy to run an offense & get ur teammates involved before looking for ur own shots

But if Toney is open or if he has a driving lane....he scores it at 49% clip. Everything he does is within the flow.

whether or not he has the ability to be john stockton is irrelevant to his impact on the team when he is in there. I don't agree with the fact that D'antoni needs a ball dominating point guard for his system to work...His system is ball movement, pick and rolling cutting, and moving. The ball should be moving around with everyone getting a shot at making a good pass. Toney Douglas is doing a great job at that...labeling him a combo guard isn't fair.

On this team...what is Duhon??? A guy that shoots 40 foot 3pters before his team crosses the half court line is a pure point guard??? Duhon has been a combo guard his whole career especially in Duke.

Toney Douglas needs to be handed this team right now....Toney was the best point guard on the floor last night on either team.

bro, don't get me wrong i love the kid, but i haven't seen anything from him yet that shows me he is a viable longterm solution at starting PG... i'm sure w/work he can develop that part of his game but as of now he's another undersized SG like Nate w/o the knuckleheaded shenanigans & less explosion.

Obviously having the ability to jump is important but it's over emphasized. It's easy to measure and fans like to see dunks but there are other natural abilities and developed skills that are harder to measure and more important.

I'll be much happier if TD starts showing he knows where and how his teammates like to receive the ball and starts getting it to them when they have good scoring opportunities.

Grumble, grumble, belch...

Juist look at recent history. Chauncey Billups is not a pure pg. He's a lead guard who won a championship and a finals MVP. Derek Fisher is a lead guard, as is Mike Bibby, Mo Williams, Tony Parker, Devin Harris, Iverson, Arenas, just to name a few and all were intrical pieces that helped their teams with win championships, reach finals or just be amongst the elite in the NBA.

And no I'm putting Douglas on the same level as the guys I just mentioned. Just wanted to point out that Douglas, even if he never develops pg skills can still a be a big piece to help us turn this around.

EwingsGlass wrote:TD really hasn't had the opportunity to run with the 1st team, so to develop that understanding of how the guys play around him will take time. He will be fine. I think he is showing more than I could have hoped for. I think there has not been enough appreciation for his defensive prowess, which sets him apart from Duhon.

I think TD has shown a lot. My comment wasn't directed at him, it was really just the general infatuation fans show with jumping ability when evaluating a player when there are so many attributes that are more important.