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After reviewing this team--I would sincerely call GS and offer them
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tkf
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11/28/2009  1:25 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
cooch2584 wrote:Thats way too much for monta

Is it really? An underwhelming SF a raw PF who doesnt play and a guy who has had back problems who has been a fair player so far. I wouldnt do it if I was GS--not enough but they seem like they want to cut costs and rebuild so they can help sell the team. The only keeper that I like is Douglas--the others--I would do it.

you can put any spin on it you want, but reality will always be reality. and what you're describing is simply not reality.

lets differentiate spin from reality

SPIN--Danilo is a superstar in the making--perhaps a Larry Bird like clone--Dirk 2. Reality Danilo is a good shooter when left unchecked on the perimeter -- waits for the game to come to him
has back problems and is underwhelming in many other areas.

Spin Jordan Hill is Amare Stoudemire in the making. Reality he doesnt even get off the bench.

Spin Wilson Chndler is Danny Granger part 2 reality Chandler is an underwhelming severely inconsistent somewhat dumb player.

Spin--Monta Ellis hasnt proven anything he really didnt shoot 54% in 82 games 2 years ago and he's some kind of trouble maker when a moped is present. Reality Monta Ellis is an NBA star at 24 from the lead guard at or near the same level as Dwayne Wade

I like Toney Douglas--he is much more a KNICK than these other very soft players. He was a good find by the Knicks at 29--I give them credit on that one but he also has to play. I can go to war with TD--not with these other guys--find me a player.

Briggs you are like a child that will take something and roll with it... are you gallanari's doctor? did he say his back was bothering him? then why keep bringing that up.. and honestly, no one here or that I heard said the kid will be a star... or even superstar.. most of us are hoping for a very good second option on this team out of him....

reality briggs is that you have proven to be wrong when you start with these types of post.. it is amazing how after less than 50 pro games from gallanari and hill, you have them all figured out..

yet thabeet is going to be a great center and the guy can barely get time on a team that has no depth...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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Caseloads
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11/28/2009  1:26 PM
BRIGGS wrote:reality--David lee scks he's our problem cant defend anyone--over rated couldnt start for a good team. spin -- David Lee is near an all star level 4 man who is asked to play WAY out of position who brings it the best he can every night. David Lee=least of our problems yet most of our problems because there is NO way we can retain him.

ftfy

s3231
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11/28/2009  1:26 PM
I wouldn't mind bringing Monta in at a cheap price but come on BRIGGS, we don't need to offer Golden State that much for him.

You are asking us to mortgage our franchise's future in this deal for a guy that doesn't have a jumpshot and lets his opponents shoot an effective field goal % of over 55%. Offensively, he may be similar to Wade but defensively, Wade doesn't let his opponents shoot that high of a %. Its not even close.

We should learn from the Marbury deal and never mortgage our future again for an offensive talent that has questionable character and a lack of defensive prowess.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't take a chance on Ellis. I would pull the trigger on a deal for the right price. This is far from a good deal though.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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11/28/2009  1:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/28/2009  1:37 PM
don't gimme that crap, u've been putting ur own spin on other team's prospects for as long as i can remember & consistently refused to use the same standards of judgement when appraising our own.

u wanna talk about Spin? how about telling us how Andrew Bynum is a top 5 player in the NBA last year? how about this stuff ur spewing now about Monta Ellis being at Dwyane Wade's level? how about how u preached Hasheem Thabeet was 1 of only 4 players in this draft other than Griffin, Derozan & Evans w/star potential in the weeks leading up to the draft this summer & how the rest of the draft class was crap?

keep on spinnin BRIGGS.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JrZyHuStLa
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11/28/2009  1:38 PM
Is that a spinning jenny ?
TheGame
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11/28/2009  1:38 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/28/2009  1:39 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Gallinari Hill Chandler + Mobleys contract for Monta Ellis. We would only lose roughly 5mm in cap + we could bring in someone desperately proven. We need stars--our coach wont even play the young players. If he is available---go for it. We still have cap space for a max fA.

Damn BRIGGS, you are giving up on all our young talent already. Hill, Gallo, and Chandler for a undersized SG. That is a bit much. Gallo will be alright once we get Harrington off the team and get a better PG. Hill has shown enough to at least warrant giving him a season to see what he can develope into.

Trust the Process
TMS
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11/28/2009  1:45 PM
i'd give up Curry's contract, Chandler, our 2nd rounder & cash for Monta

or Fishlips & Mobley's contract w/Toney Douglas & our 2nd rounder for Ellis & either Raja Bell or Speedy Claxton... that basically pays for Jeffries' contract in 2010 because of the insurance savings on Mobley's deal.

otherwise they can keep Ellis... he's not worth sacrificing a chance at a max FA this offseason.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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11/28/2009  1:45 PM
I think the bottom line is I would be willing to trade 3 prospects for one great young player--that is just my opinion--certainly GS would not take less if they would take that at all. To give up on a 24 year old player like that would be insane--I think they may realize that now--BUT there is the caveat that they are trying to sell the team and Monta might want OUT.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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11/28/2009  1:47 PM
TheGame wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Gallinari Hill Chandler + Mobleys contract for Monta Ellis. We would only lose roughly 5mm in cap + we could bring in someone desperately proven. We need stars--our coach wont even play the young players. If he is available---go for it. We still have cap space for a max fA.

Damn BRIGGS, you are giving up on all our young talent already. Hill, Gallo, and Chandler for a undersized SG. That is a bit much. Gallo will be alright once we get Harrington off the team and get a better PG. Hill has shown enough to at least warrant giving him a season to see what he can develope into.

Ill give you 3 dollar bills for 5

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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11/28/2009  1:49 PM
TMS wrote:i'd give up Curry's contract, Chandler, our 2nd rounder & cash for Monta

or Fishlips & Mobley's contract w/Toney Douglas & our 2nd rounder for Ellis & either Raja Bell or Speedy Claxton... that basically pays for Jeffries' contract in 2010 because of the insurance savings on Mobley's deal.

otherwise they can keep Ellis... he's not worth sacrificing a chance at a max FA this offseason.

Elis is a max FA but only being paid 11mm. He would give us a shot at getting a max fa.

RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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11/28/2009  1:54 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
TMS wrote:i'd give up Curry's contract, Chandler, our 2nd rounder & cash for Monta

or Fishlips & Mobley's contract w/Toney Douglas & our 2nd rounder for Ellis & either Raja Bell or Speedy Claxton... that basically pays for Jeffries' contract in 2010 because of the insurance savings on Mobley's deal.

otherwise they can keep Ellis... he's not worth sacrificing a chance at a max FA this offseason.

Elis is a max FA but only being paid 11mm. He would give us a shot at getting a max fa.

getting a max FA to play w/Ellis & a collection of veteran's minimum players is not gonna attract any FA's worth getting... u need support players & no matter how u wanna talk down our young guys, they all have talent & the potential to be very nice supporting cast members to put around 2 stars... to take on Ellis' contract u have to make sure u unload either Curry or Fishlips in the process IMO... that's not even a question of my opinion either, Donnie Walsh has made it clear he won't sacrifice the cap flexibility for anyone unless he can get the players he covets, & Monta Ellis is definitely not gonna be on that short list of guys.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BRIGGS
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11/28/2009  1:58 PM
TMS wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
TMS wrote:i'd give up Curry's contract, Chandler, our 2nd rounder & cash for Monta

or Fishlips & Mobley's contract w/Toney Douglas & our 2nd rounder for Ellis & either Raja Bell or Speedy Claxton... that basically pays for Jeffries' contract in 2010 because of the insurance savings on Mobley's deal.

otherwise they can keep Ellis... he's not worth sacrificing a chance at a max FA this offseason.

Elis is a max FA but only being paid 11mm. He would give us a shot at getting a max fa.

getting a max FA to play w/Ellis & a collection of veteran's minimum players is not gonna attract any FA's worth getting... u need support players & no matter how u wanna talk down our young guys, they all have talent & the potential to be very nice supporting cast members to put around 2 stars... to take on Ellis' contract u have to make sure u unload either Curry or Fishlips in the process IMO... that's not even a question of my opinion either, Donnie Walsh has made it clear he won't sacrifice the cap flexibility for anyone unless he can get the players he covets, & Monta Ellis is definitely not gonna be on that short list of guys.

Id rather try to get three great players and go from there. I don't view any of our youth as players who will be great. If I had great players in place and needed a Gallinari as my outside gun in terms of balancing--that is a different story

RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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11/28/2009  2:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/28/2009  2:12 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Id rather try to get three great players and go from there. I don't view any of our youth as players who will be great. If I had great players in place and needed a Gallinari as my outside gun in terms of balancing--that is a different story

even still u can't win championships w/3 great players & a collection of garbage... even the Celtics needed more than just KG, Pierce & Allen to win their championship... they had a very deep team w/some good role players & one up & coming young talent like Rondo & were just barely able to get past the Hawks... same goes for the Spurs, who had more than just Duncan, Parker & Manu during their championship runs... they also had some very good role players like Horry & Bowen playing alongside those guys.

IMO getting 2 great players to build around won't even happen unless we have some overall team depth surrounding them... if i'm Lebron James i won't wanna come to a team with just Ellis & a collection of scrubs... he's in a better situation than that right now as it is playing w/Mo Will, Shaq, Z & their other role players.

teams like the Bulls, Rockets, Lakers & Heat among others have followed the formula of having 2 big stars & great overall team depth & have experienced great success in recent years... i think that's the model we need to follow.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
McK1
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11/28/2009  2:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/28/2009  2:24 PM
TMS wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Id rather try to get three great players and go from there. I don't view any of our youth as players who will be great. If I had great players in place and needed a Gallinari as my outside gun in terms of balancing--that is a different story

even still u can't win championships w/3 great players & a collection of garbage... even the Celtics needed more than just KG, Pierce & Allen to win their championship... they had a very deep team w/some good role players & one up & coming young talent like Rondo & were just barely able to get past the Hawks... same goes for the Spurs, who had more than just Duncan, Parker & Manu during their championship runs... they also had some very good role players like Horry & Bowen playing alongside those guys.

IMO getting 2 great players to build around won't even happen unless we have some overall team depth surrounding them... if i'm Lebron James i won't wanna come to a team with just Ellis & a collection of scrubs... he's in a better situation than that right now as it is playing w/Mo Will, Shaq, Z & their other role players.

teams like the Bulls, Rockets, Lakers & Heat among others have followed the formula of having 2 big stars & great overall team depth & have experienced great success in recent years... i think that's the model we need to follow.

ny will have to renounce most of the team to sign Lebron. Is he coming to play with Gallo Hill Douglas Curry and Jeffries?

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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11/28/2009  2:30 PM
McK1 wrote:ny will have to renounce most of the team to sign Lebron. Is he coming to play with Gallo Hill Douglas Curry and Jeffries?

probably not, which is why i'm saying it's imperative to dump Curry or Fishlips' contract so we can target a 2nd star player & still have a good enough core in place that Lebron won't be coming here to play w/a skeleton roster... if u dump all ur young players to get Ellis, what's left? u won't have the cap space to sign anyone else if u can even convince Lebron to come here, which makes the chance of him wanting to sign here just as unlikely.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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11/28/2009  2:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/28/2009  2:38 PM
I actually agree with BRIGGS' line of reasoning here. I just think it is the wrong player to go after.

The hard part is getting a franchise player (or players) to build around. Once you get those guys, you focus on the role players after. In the Boston scenario, they had a franchise player in Pierce and then added the other 2 guys (KG and Ray) to make the team a contender. If you guys remember, shortly after the KG trade, they only had like 6 contracts on that team. There were no role players at all. Once Boston had the big 3 though, free agents were lining up to play for them. Shortly after, they signed Posey and House. They were even able to sign Sam Cassell in the middle of the season. Before you know it, Boston went from having no depth to one of the best benches in the league.

So while I think that BRIGGS makes a great point, Ellis is not the guy to mortgage our future after. If it was Bosh, it would be a different story and I think that is something I would pull the trigger on.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
bitty41
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11/28/2009  2:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/28/2009  2:45 PM
BRIGGS wrote:Gallinari Hill Chandler + Mobleys contract for Monta Ellis. We would only lose roughly 5mm in cap + we could bring in someone desperately proven. We need stars--our coach wont even play the young players. If he is available---go for it. We still have cap space for a max fA.

Forget about the talent levels for a minute why would any GM ever consider doing a major trade with the Knicks? I have to imagine that if GS were to ever unload someone of Ellis' talent they would call almost every other team before the Knicks. The Knicks are the last hope option not a viable one.

BRIGGS
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11/28/2009  2:50 PM
bitty41 wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:Gallinari Hill Chandler + Mobleys contract for Monta Ellis. We would only lose roughly 5mm in cap + we could bring in someone desperately proven. We need stars--our coach wont even play the young players. If he is available---go for it. We still have cap space for a max fA.

Forget about the talent levels for a minute why would any GM ever consider doing a major trade with the Knicks? I have to imagine that if GS were to ever unload someone of Ellis' talent they would call almost every other team before the Knicks. The Knicks are the last hope option not a viable one.

You're right--they would laugh at me. I know some fans like to see the rose color through the glasses--I'm just not one of them.

RIP Crushalot😞
TheGame
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11/28/2009  2:59 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
TMS wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
TMS wrote:i'd give up Curry's contract, Chandler, our 2nd rounder & cash for Monta

or Fishlips & Mobley's contract w/Toney Douglas & our 2nd rounder for Ellis & either Raja Bell or Speedy Claxton... that basically pays for Jeffries' contract in 2010 because of the insurance savings on Mobley's deal.

otherwise they can keep Ellis... he's not worth sacrificing a chance at a max FA this offseason.

Elis is a max FA but only being paid 11mm. He would give us a shot at getting a max fa.

getting a max FA to play w/Ellis & a collection of veteran's minimum players is not gonna attract any FA's worth getting... u need support players & no matter how u wanna talk down our young guys, they all have talent & the potential to be very nice supporting cast members to put around 2 stars... to take on Ellis' contract u have to make sure u unload either Curry or Fishlips in the process IMO... that's not even a question of my opinion either, Donnie Walsh has made it clear he won't sacrifice the cap flexibility for anyone unless he can get the players he covets, & Monta Ellis is definitely not gonna be on that short list of guys.

Id rather try to get three great players and go from there. I don't view any of our youth as players who will be great. If I had great players in place and needed a Gallinari as my outside gun in terms of balancing--that is a different story

The problem is two-fold. First, Ellis is not a pg. He is a solid scoring guard and he can dribble well enough to bring the ball up the court, but this guy has never run a pg-dominated offense. So you are taking a risk that he can actually run MDA's system. Granted a n*tless monkey could run the system better than Duhon right now, but we are not committed to Duhon longterm. Second issue is that you are giving up on Gallo and Hill without any real idea of their potential. Before teams knew Gallo will hit open shots, he was looking like a future allstar. Now teams are adjusting and Gallo still has not adjusted his game. If he can adjust and figure out how to score with people on him, we will have a very solid player. As for Hill, this kid is a bit ackward and still does not know where to be at on the court, but he has a ton of athleticism, a solid back-to-the-basket game, and already possesses a better jumpshot than Lee. Once this kid gets a better understanding of the system and gains about 10-15 lbs of muscle, there is a good chance he will be a solid PF for us. Bottomline is that Gallo and Hill might net us more than Ellis in another season. Since Ellis is not the perfect fit for what we need, I would not give up all our prospects for him. If we were trading for Chris Paul, then I could understand the move but IMO Ellis is not worth this much potential talent.


I would offer Chandler, $3 mill, Toney Douglas, and Duhon for Ellis. GS save about $5-6 mill in salary over the next 2-3 years. It opens the way for Curry to start at PG and in Douglas they have someone that has Ellis-like potential as a scorer who is also a better defender. This trade makes sense for both teams and we don't have to give up Gallo and Hill to make it happen.

Trust the Process
orangeblobman
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Nauru
11/28/2009  3:03 PM
briggs might be berman
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
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After reviewing this team--I would sincerely call GS and offer them

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