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cooch2584
Posts: 21587 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2006 Member: #1187 |
11/17/2009 1:14 PM
your point??
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fishmike
Posts: 53902 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/17/2009 1:14 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Yes, and Cassell was 6'3" and would post guys up regularly a la Gary Payton. You're right, he could score in a lot of ways, and at the time he was a bigger PG. Cassell seemed to see the court and could find open guys especially from the post position. Cassell was 6'3 in shoes. Douglas is 6'2. Again.. do you play ball? There is no difference there. If you want to say bigger longer *tend* to be better than shorter stubbier players than wow... you might be onto something. So when I looked at Douglas's #s in the combine and see his 3/4 sprint and agility are either the best or among the best AND he's got a 6'6 wingspan AND he benched 15 times AND he was one of the most eff% scorers in CBB then you know your looking at a player with good physical tools and a good skill set. Cassell didnt post because of a size difference. He posted because he was to quick to guard there. He was so good at drawing contact, especially late in games that it just opened up more easy shots for a guy that could already score on anyone "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 6/14/2005 Member: #910 USA |
11/17/2009 1:35 PM
Fish... point is that Cassell has the requisite point guard skills, and moves nobody else has, and he's 6'3" which is not small.
I am very aware that I'm not making any grand observation. That's why I'm not sure why this is a huge debate. You're right Cassell was great at drawing contact. He did a bunch of things that made it easy for his team to score. Douglas is a fine prospect for where we got him. My expectations are just lower with him than some because I worry that he can't score around the basket easily as compared to Rose/Rondo/Westbrook types, and he doesn't seem to be finding other players scoring opportunities as a result of his scoring. On the defensive end, if he's guarding the two, then he has to press to play effective defense, which almost requires that he's a bench energy guy unless he's got endurance that nobody else has in the NBA. Maybe we get Joe Johnson and Douglas' issues don't matter as much, but we still need more depth there either way, so we have to add backcourt players with PG ability somehow some way in the offseason. Alan Hahn:
Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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cooch2584
Posts: 21587 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2006 Member: #1187 |
11/17/2009 1:47 PM
and how long did it take for cassell to develop?? not to compare TD to jordan but didnt jordan suck until there was the complimentary pieces placed around him? Its a moot point until we give him more time wingspan or not
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fishmike
Posts: 53902 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/17/2009 1:48 PM
This is my point. Cassell didnt really have more PG skills than Douglas (when he came into the league). He could take care of the ball and hit big shots. Based on those two skills became on of the more underrated players in the league, and probably the best to never be an all star.
6'3 is not small but 6'2 is? And the whole point of this thread is Aaron Brooks is a damn good player, and is the starting PG on a team winning games that not a lot of people expected to win. Also, he's a 3rd year player. This outstanding play he was exibited is a result of 2 years of development. My point is he's not the same player he was 10 games into his rookie season. Imagine that! "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 6/14/2005 Member: #910 USA |
11/17/2009 2:01 PM
If you can't finish at the rim over other guards, or if he's got to play at shooting guard then Douglas' size is an issue for me. Doesn't have to be for anyone else.
Rondo is 6'1, but he's got hops and the biggest wingspan of anyone at his size. I don't know, I thought Cassell was great his rookie year. Better structure around him, but he did average 6.2 assists per 36 min (2.9 per game). Alan Hahn:
Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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cooch2584
Posts: 21587 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2006 Member: #1187 |
11/17/2009 2:02 PM
fish I agree 100% We just haveta give TD playing time and a chance. I really didnt expect him to be this good even with all the hype he had after the draft but Im willing to wait on him and sounds like most on this board are too.
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cooch2584
Posts: 21587 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/28/2006 Member: #1187 |
11/17/2009 2:03 PM
OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THE WINGSPAN ISSUE AGAIN LOL
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JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 6/14/2005 Member: #910 USA |
11/17/2009 2:16 PM
Yes, it makes a difference. All these attributes matter. Nate wouldn't be in the league if he couldn't jump, Lawson wouldn't be here if he couldn't fly, and Rondo's got crazy long arms. Alan Hahn:
Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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newyorknewyork
Posts: 30223 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
11/17/2009 2:29 PM
Douglas is quick enough laterally and hustles enough to stay in front of most guards. And he strong enough to body most guards in the paint. Add to that the ability to shoot and he is a problem at PG. Plus he is very fast and heady in transition.
Off the pick and roll is where he can pad his stats and PNR is the biggest stat padding assist collector out there which most PG. The main focus on his development is to consistantly take care of the ball. He has the tools to be at least good at everything else if not a great assist man. Yet Nash and Kidd 2 of the better assist men of this era have not won an NBA championship while guys like Billups, Rondo, Cassell, Toney Parker have. Deron Williams and Chris Paul are today's best PGs and they are 1 or 2 and done playoff type of guys. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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fishmike
Posts: 53902 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 7/19/2002 Member: #298 USA |
11/17/2009 2:30 PM
cooch2584 wrote:fish I agree 100% We just haveta give TD playing time and a chance. I really didnt expect him to be this good even with all the hype he had after the draft but Im willing to wait on him and sounds like most on this board are too. its a glimmer of hope for this management. They scouted a player, bought a draft pick to get him and as it is turning out... he can play. Wow. "winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 6/14/2005 Member: #910 USA |
11/17/2009 2:40 PM
That's sort of interesting NYNY. You think that's because of all the iso plays in the playoffs?
Alan Hahn:
Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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newyorknewyork
Posts: 30223 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 1/16/2004 Member: #541 |
11/17/2009 3:29 PM
JohnWallace44 wrote:That's sort of interesting NYNY. You think that's because of all the iso plays in the playoffs? I don't really know why it is, but I do know that playoff basketball is a different game and Douglas is a playoff basketball type of player. If we are serious about making and doing anything in the playoffs in a few yrs then Douglas is the type of guy we need to develop to at least be a big rotation guy. https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
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JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 6/14/2005 Member: #910 USA |
11/17/2009 3:43 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:JohnWallace44 wrote:That's sort of interesting NYNY. You think that's because of all the iso plays in the playoffs? I hope you're right. I gotta see him be able to initiate contact and score from the line in crunch time first. Alan Hahn:
Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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