Bippity10 wrote:Two years ago they were a top team in the West. Two years ago we were the most embarrassing organization in the world. We are both starting from different points. They aren't tearing down, or building, they are looking for someone to get them over the hump. When there's evidence that someone can't do that, you get rid of them. That's what good teams do.

We have been horrendous for 10 years. We are tearing this down so we can begin to build. How can so many intelligent people not see this?

Bip they've said this about NY fans for years and apparently it's true. You can't rebuild in NY! If you read the posts all over the net it's constant ripping of Walsh and MDA as if they are completely unaware of what is taking place with the franchise. They actually think it's about wins this year. Yeah we don't want to see a complete collapse, but there has to be some sense of reason. Anyone chanting "Fire D'Antoni" is simply not paying attention to what is going on. OK say we fire him, how many coaches would that be... Has it made a difference before? So it's not really about the coach and that's why we're gonna bring in the best we can get over the next two summers. We've NEVER been in this kind of position before. TWO FA classes with good to great talent and we'll be players in both of them!!!! MAN I can't wait to see what happens.

Bippity10 wrote:We have been horrendous for 10 years. We are tearing this down so we can begin to build. How can so many intelligent people not see this?

step back from the keyboard Bip. I think you just made an assumption that some of us here are intelligent. By all accounts: FAIL

as evidence: www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/

8 years of evidence.

Use the search feature if you need to find specific examples of our collective evidence. Start with Andrew's post where he claims that Isiah may have made a GREAT move trading for Marbury.

orangeblobman wrote:is there really a search button?

we hide it specifically from you cause of the harm it would do

martin wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:is there really a search button?

we hide it specifically from you cause of the harm it would do

MS wrote:The more and more I read the patience arguement the more and more one thing becomes clear, many of you are happy with being losers.

Isiah is a bad example because he is quite possible the worst GM in the past 20 years. He didn't make one good move while he was hear outside of the draft. Briggs is talking about being accountable. We have an owner that feels sorry for isiah and welcomes him back with open arms. An owner who harrasses employees and is quite possible one of the biggest pieces of garbage you will ever meet.

The Walsh approach isn't a bad one. Bringing in crappy talent and losing is fine if there is a plan in a place. Get under the cap is a great idea. But drafting repetitive hyprid players is the problem.

And when you have an owner with no accountability, you give layden extra time you give isiah extra time and sooner or later you have losers calling team meetings because 5 games into the season the team is going through the motions. Half of the team should be playing hard just because there contracts are up, our coach doesn't run an offense he doesn't have lineups he seems lost out there and we are asked to be patient.

And we have to watch Jennings blossom into a star while searching for our point guard of the future. Watching Gordon, Lopez all blossom and be asked to wait on players you can already gauge on their talents.

I'm fine with being patient but when 8 years go by and our core is Douglas, Hill, Gallo, and Chandler your lying to yourself. We don't even have a position on any of them.

Ridiculous post. Nobody is happy with losing. Everyone would like to have a winner today. But I personally am just paying attention to reality. You can't go from the most embarrassing franchise in history to a winner overnight. You can't be 80 million dollars over the cap and expect to sign free agents that would make a difference to our standing. You can't have overpaid vets with bad reputations and expect to turn them into stars via trade. You can't build on top of a crappy roster with MLE signings like Ramon Sessions and expect to be competing for a title any time soon. Signings like that do nothing but allow fans to pretend we are going to be better only to face reality a few months later.

At some point you have to say, 8 years is enough. It's time to tear it all down and start from scratch. We have 6 or 7 ending contracts and a 4 guys with under 3 years experience. This is exactly what we are attempting to do, build from scratch. Now I may want this process to go sooner so I don't ahve to suffer through another losing season but reality tells me that if we are going to be a title contender you have to start over. That's what we are doing.

If you want to complain about Dolan and the last 8 or 10 years I agree.

If you have a case against Walsh and D - you have to make it about what's happened since they've been here. I have no problem being patient with then because I don't think anyone was turning this franchise around in a couple of years. Walsh came here with a plan and the major component was to free up cap space. He's stuck to it and I'm willing to see how it plays out.

I'm also realistic when it comes to drafts. Most years you are not going to pick the best player available. If you re-evaluate a draft after 3 years I would bet you'd find most teams did not get the best player they could have taken. It's an inexact science. You want to consistently get good value for your picks. Do you really expect a 6, 8 and a 23 to turn around franchise with a combined experience of about 50 games?

I'm impatient with the Knicks but not with Walsh and D. So far I'm waiting to see how it works out.

I'm worried about D'Antonio but not giving up on him because the veterans on this team have been loser's their whole careers and the youngster - well are youngsters. I do expect more intensity but there have been so many coaches that haven't been able to motivate the knicks for the last 10 years - I'm hoping it's just the players and he'll do better once the young guys grow and the old guys go.