[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Start Toney Douglas
Author Thread
EwingsGlass
Posts: 27678
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2005
Member: #893
USA
11/10/2009  8:45 AM
I don't understand how the starting PG can be okay with being benched for the 4th quarter. I don't want the drama of our past PGs, but dude should have a pulse and have some competitive fire that makes him want to be in the game. There is one thing about deference to the coach, it another thing to have casual indifference. I think Duhon should sit in the stands in plain clothes. Suit up a player that cares.
You know I gonna spin wit it
AUTOADVERT
PresIke
Posts: 27671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/26/2001
Member: #33
USA
11/10/2009  8:50 AM
McK1 wrote:dont think you can start him based off of just one game but you sure can pull duhon alot quicker than whst mda has been doing.

exactly what i think will happen.

highly unlikely duhon goes to the bench this early in the year, but with the last two games by douglas and duhon's poor play will d'antoni be quicker to get toney in games in the short term (especially with no nate).

almost odd how perhaps because nate has been out that douglas has been given more opportunity to shine a bit.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
11/10/2009  8:50 AM
martin wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:Martin, is www.kneejerk.com available?

DouglasDuhon is terrible enough that you could start anyone and it would probably be an improvement, but Douglas is not the be-all-end-all player for us at the position unfortunately. I see him as being a BJ Armstrong, Fisher type, which is good enough when you have all-stars at the other spots, but should be a backup.

What I was very happy to see is that Douglas seems to be taking the plays that the defense gives you in this offense. Where Duhon had been seeing open lanes to the basket and saying, no thank you, for some unkown reason, Douglas was finishing those plays.

Same plays have been there for Duhon, but he just wasn't playing like he was interested in finishing them.

Playing Douglas will eliminate some of the massive deficits we've been finding ourselves in, but I don't see the skills in his game to put us over the top at all. Gallo, Chandler and Al need to be the primary scoring options. Lee should get the garbage points, and the PG just needs to take what's there.

Douglas is not here to put the Knicks over the top or be an all-star. He plays tenacious D, he stays in front of his man, he pushes the ball, he rebounds, he deflects, he steals, and he is a proven scorer. He still has to prove he can do all of those things at the NBA level consistently, but we already know his work ethic is there. Dude just went head to head with perhaps the #2 PG in the league and didn't look foolish. IMHO, per his experience, he is not a liability and shows good potential to be a 2-way starter.

I have no idea where you get the BJ and/or Fisher comparisons. Those guys were/are primarily one dimensional - life outside playing next to a super-duper star would show those guys to be bench dudes.

Sorry, that should have said "Duhon is terrible enough"

You don't think Douglas is similar to Fisher? Guy who plays pressure defense, can score, but ideally not as a primary option. They can score in about the same way. How do you mean Fish is one dimensional?

Really like what he showed last night, but no way is he a legit starter for any team but the Knickerbockers.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  9:37 AM
I was watching the game last nite and when MDA put douglas in in the first qt i went and picked him up for my fantasy team. If you looked on douglas's eyes he knew it was time to shine I like to call it"eye of the tiger" when you look in dudumbs eyes they are bloodshot.Dudumb has "eyes of the wussy" IMO teams know duhon, know his weaknesses and he def hasnt shown any strong points this yr.Id like to compare it to a baseball pitcher that faces a new lineup every nite. The batters dont know him and he dont know the batters.Its the same in the NBA. Other teams dont know what douglas has so they must adjust on the run with him.If this philosophy works we may be able to steal some wins because other guards wont know what moves hes got. In the 4th qt when he split those 2 defenders not once but twice i thought to myself when was the last time dudumb did that?Again its only one game but if you give this kid mins in the next 3 games and the results are similar to last nite i dont see any way he dont start with hughes for their offensive and defensive skills
martin
Posts: 78491
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
11/10/2009  9:38 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Really like what he showed last night, but no way is he a legit starter for any team but the Knickerbockers.

isn't that like, you know, a knee jerk reaction? Let's watch the guy develop over the year.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
11/10/2009  9:59 AM
martin wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:Really like what he showed last night, but no way is he a legit starter for any team but the Knickerbockers.

isn't that like, you know, a knee jerk reaction? Let's watch the guy develop over the year.

Not really. What's his go-to skill? Can you picture him being in the top half of the PG's in the East?

Rose
Harris
Rondo
Nelson
Jennings
Lou Williams
Arenas

He'll be a good backup. That's not a knock on him. We could supply the whole league with 6th men with our roster, but we don't have a lot of legit starting players.

Check out Holiday here. Dude hasn't had his breakout game yet, but dude has the size, skill and ability to finish where you can picture him being a difference making player. All I'm saying is that this is the NBA. There are very good point guards on opposing teams, and our system requires a very good point guard. Douglas is nice. He's not the player in that position that's going to be able to make this team go consistently.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  10:37 AM
ok JW and where is this elite point guard gonna fall outta the sky?? Do you wanna wait for cpaul in 2011? If we can develop one of our own is that a bad thing? TD doesnt hafta be elite just get the job done.
Cosmic
Posts: 26570
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 3/17/2006
Member: #1115
USA
11/10/2009  10:47 AM
TheGame wrote:
McK1 wrote:dont think you can start him based off of just one game but you sure can pull duhon alot quicker than whst mda has been doing.

Exactly, I don't think Douglas needs to start but he does need to play 25 minutes at least and if the team is getting behind with Duhon, then put Douglas in immediately.

I think we're getting to the point where Duhon will get the quick hook. I don't think we start Douglas ahead of him just yet. We've seen rookies play well off the bench, get the start, then not play so well, then go back to the bench, then play not so well. So I wouldn't tamper with that just yet. We also don't need to hear Duhon yapping about it either.

I would say if Nate comes back you trade Duhon - but for what? Teams aren't going to absorb his salary and give us a 1st rounder back. Also this is the trouble with our 2010s that we're souring on: We need 2010s back in return. And if in return we're getting trash? We're better off suffering the year out and letting these 2010s flat out walk.

So, well, that's the corner we're backed into with that.

Just keep upping Douglas' minutes and scaling Duhon's back for now.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
11/10/2009  11:02 AM
Cooch, TD is better than Duhon already, that's a small win for us. Not a bad thing.

What I don't think Walsh can do is to lose focus on the fact that PG is still our most glaring need even with Douglas.

We need a SG badly, but this offense just doesn't work well without a top flight PG. I don't think that anyone who's being honest with themselves really thinks that Douglas has the potential to be the player to make this system go in a starting role.

Is one going to fall out of the sky? No. That is why we have a GM though. There were 7 PG's taken in the last draft that I think will end up being starters. It's not impossible to find them.

If players decide to come out ahead of the new CBA then this draft will be artificially deep. If we purchase a late pick like we did with Douglas, then yes, we probably can get a developmental PG that can run this system well.

If I'm the GM of a D'Antoni coached team, I'm looking for a 6'5" PG who can finish.

Wall, Lee, Shumpert, White, Warren, Jasper - That's six guys that will more than likely be in this draft who fit the bill.

There are guys like Crittendon who are in the mold of what we need and are riding the pine. Not sure if he's the long term solution, but there are players like him that would help for this year at least.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  11:06 AM
and how do we get these guys??
cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  11:09 AM
I like tall pgs too but what do we hafta give up to get one?? And usually tall doesnt mean quick and we have quick in TD
NYKBocker
Posts: 38456
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
11/10/2009  11:17 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:
martin wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:Really like what he showed last night, but no way is he a legit starter for any team but the Knickerbockers.

isn't that like, you know, a knee jerk reaction? Let's watch the guy develop over the year.

Not really. What's his go-to skill? Can you picture him being in the top half of the PG's in the East?

Rose
Harris
Rondo
Nelson
Jennings
Lou Williams
Arenas

He'll be a good backup. That's not a knock on him. We could supply the whole league with 6th men with our roster, but we don't have a lot of legit starting players.

Check out Holiday here. Dude hasn't had his breakout game yet, but dude has the size, skill and ability to finish where you can picture him being a difference making player. All I'm saying is that this is the NBA. There are very good point guards on opposing teams, and our system requires a very good point guard. Douglas is nice. He's not the player in that position that's going to be able to make this team go consistently.

Question: Was Rondo projected as an NBA starter when he was a rookie with the Celtics? He was behind Telfair and Delonte West. He showed promise and was the starter by default in his soph year.

What I am trying to get at is that TD is showing us something right now. I think he is showing more than what Rondo showed in his rookie year. If D'Antoni gives him the starting spot now, he can really learn and grow with Gallo, Chandler and Hill. Assuming Hill gets into the rotation as well.

franco12
Posts: 34069
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/19/2004
Member: #599
USA
11/10/2009  11:19 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Cooch, TD is better than Duhon already, that's a small win for us. Not a bad thing.

What I don't think Walsh can do is to lose focus on the fact that PG is still our most glaring need even with Douglas.

We need a SG badly, but this offense just doesn't work well without a top flight PG. I don't think that anyone who's being honest with themselves really thinks that Douglas has the potential to be the player to make this system go in a starting role.

Is one going to fall out of the sky? No. That is why we have a GM though. There were 7 PG's taken in the last draft that I think will end up being starters. It's not impossible to find them.

If players decide to come out ahead of the new CBA then this draft will be artificially deep. If we purchase a late pick like we did with Douglas, then yes, we probably can get a developmental PG that can run this system well.

If I'm the GM of a D'Antoni coached team, I'm looking for a 6'5" PG who can finish.

Wall, Lee, Shumpert, White, Warren, Jasper - That's six guys that will more than likely be in this draft who fit the bill.

There are guys like Crittendon who are in the mold of what we need and are riding the pine. Not sure if he's the long term solution, but there are players like him that would help for this year at least.

I think TD might have the potential to be a starter that makes this system go- especially with a possible Lebron as an addition.

Its early - we don't know yet about TD- the one thing he does have is speed.

And Nash is 6'3" - don't know why we would need someone in the 6'5" category.

cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  11:20 AM
NYK I totally agree
JamaicanJetFan
Posts: 20617
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/27/2008
Member: #2297
USA
11/10/2009  11:25 AM
I love everything TD has done so far, but I sure hope his passing skills improve over the course of the year.
NYKBocker
Posts: 38456
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
11/10/2009  11:29 AM
I also think that TDs natural position is PG. He played SG for Florida State out of necessity. He was their best player and FSU needed him to score. You can see that he can be a pass first PG.
NYKBocker
Posts: 38456
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
11/10/2009  11:30 AM
JamaicanJetFan wrote:I love everything TD has done so far, but I sure hope his passing skills improve over the course of the year.

I think that comes with playing time. He seems like a smart dude and jumping in the air before passing, a cardinal sin as per Clyde, will stop.

cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  11:36 AM
but his jumping and passing is a rookie mistake how many times has dudumb done that and resulted in a turnover??
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/10/2009  11:37 AM
TD looked exactly like the player we drafted. It seems it just took a bit to get confidence and understand what this level is like. He's blazingly fast!!! He like the freaking energizer bunny too cuz he kept up a torrid pace on both ends and didn't get tired. He's gonna need more time with MDA to keep showing him what to do. He doesn't seem to have great court vision but maybe he can improve enough to get the job done.

What I'm lookin for is the Nash factor! Can he learn how to make Gallo, Chan and Lee better by using his great speed to penetrate, draw and kick? It's just one more step to add to what he's already doing. Learn how to keep your head up and know where your guys are, then when a defender comes to help zip the ball to the man he just left! Also leading and directing guys to setup for pick n roll or other sets. With time he might get good enough at it to be at least what Duhon was to start of last year, but better D and pushing the ball.

cooch2584
Posts: 21587
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/28/2006
Member: #1187

11/10/2009  11:44 AM
Nix all in due time
Start Toney Douglas

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy