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orangeblobman
Posts: 27269 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/1/2009 Member: #2539 Nauru |
11/8/2009 10:12 AM
I agree that we have a mismatch between players and coach. But in this case we have to fully back MDA because the Knicks of the future WILL be the run-and-gun success that MDA envisions, but not with these players. We must look ahead and realize that this is just one small, maybe painful, step towards that goal.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
11/8/2009 11:36 AM
MDA has some of the toughest practices in the league. His teamsare known for being in the best shape period! They run teams off the floor leaving their tongues hanging out. The
problems we see with this team are coming from multiple angles. For one thing key players came out of camp slumping, Duhon, Chan and Nate in particular. We counted on Duhon to step it up from last year but he's worse. Chan avgd 14 and should be a bit better but he's gotten off to a slow start. Nate is hurt but he was slumping too. We can't affford that kind of poor play from those guys. We weren't that good to begin with and to have a chance everyone had to hold up their end. The team should be playing better than this. It's the same core guys as last year and we saw them be better than this. My take is that this won't last all season. Maybe they make a trade and guys break out of slumps. I just don't see this team staying down at this level all year. |
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TheGame
Posts: 26647 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/15/2006 Member: #1154 USA |
11/8/2009 11:38 AM
The problem is we have the worst collection of one-way players in league history. Lee, Harrignton, and Nate can score but none of them consistently play defense and Lee is about the worst post defender I have seen in my years of watching basketball. Jeffries can play defense, but his offense is so bad is boogles my mind that he was a lottery pick. Darko can play D, but no offense. Chandler used to be solid but has been watching Al too much and is startng to be a chucker. Really the only two-way players on this team are DG and TD (and possibly Hill). That really is the problem.
On top of all that, I don't think MDA has a clue how to coach defense. The Suns were terrible at it and the Knicks are even worse. He really needs to hire a defensive guru as an assistant coach and let him revamp our defensive philosophy. Also, WE NEED CURRY. I cringe as I say that, but this team could sorely use a post-player. If you can't play defense, you also can't play at 110 mph, because you are just giving the other team more chances to score. Either the offense needs to play faster and we just start running and gunning and hope at the end we scored more points, or we need to slow this team down, and if we do that, we need Curry. All and all, this team is a total disaster. What idiot created this mess. We should have traded Nate, Lee, and Chandler last year and we probably would Hill, Rubio, Blair, and about 7 million more in cap room to sign two max free agents. Trust the Process
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
11/8/2009 11:49 AM
It's not true that MDA's teams didn't defend! They were consistently right in the middle of the pack every year at no worse than 15th best in the league. They always held teams to low assist avg's and FG%. They gave up points more due to pace. They were always one of the top teams in Point Differential too. You have to defend to achieve that!!!
We just don't have a good team and if we're not scoring as has been the case then we're screwed! |
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McK1
Posts: 26527 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/16/2005 Member: #964 |
11/8/2009 12:01 PM
nixluva wrote:They always held teams to low assist avg's and FG%. teams shot well against d'antoni's suns,they just couldn't make as many shots to beat them. as far as the assist stat goes, a look further understands why that is: mda's approach to defending was to not help off and let one man try and beat them which is why you see a guy like tony parker double his scoring avg in the play-offs vs the suns the stop underrating David Lee movement
1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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bitty41
Posts: 22316 Alba Posts: 5 Joined: 12/3/2006 Member: #1215 |
11/8/2009 12:55 PM
This is just business as usual for the Knicks organization. Winning like it has been for this organization the past 9 season is secondary, third, fourth, fifth priority so we really cannot be shocked the results have remained the same through Scott Layden, Isiah Thomas, and now Donnie Walsh. And until the Knicks get management that considers winning their top priority the losing will continue cap space or no cap space.
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King1
Posts: 22993 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/2/2005 Member: #998 USA |
11/8/2009 1:19 PM
I think they have had chances to get rid of JJ and they havent done it. I am not sold on MDA evaluation of players
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BRIGGS
Posts: 53275 Alba Posts: 7 Joined: 7/30/2002 Member: #303 |
11/8/2009 2:23 PM
King1 wrote:I think they have had chances to get rid of JJ and they havent done it. I am not sold on MDA evaluation of players DW should start by calling AI's agent and offer him the starting PG job here. That would create a lot of excitement and atleast make the season bearable and save face. RIP Crushalot😞
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
11/8/2009 3:14 PM
McK1 wrote:nixluva wrote:They always held teams to low assist avg's and FG%. In 2005-06 PHX gave up only 18.9 assists per game #6 in the league, just 1% point more than the Pistons. Teams shot 45% #16 in the league and 36% from 3, #21 in the league. Meanwhile the Suns shot 48%/42% tops in the league. Being #16 in FG% isn't bad defense, especially for the #1 offensive team. His Offense and defense are designed to work together. He's not gonna blow you away defensively, cuz that's not how his defense works. They want teams taking bad shots, which is why they held teams to low assist totals. The other team scored a lot of points only as a function of the pace they played at and not because they played good offense. That was the trick. Get teams to get into a run and gun mentality and selfish play. It worked as the stats prove out. My bet is that late in the 4th Qtr teams were tired by the pace and got mentally lazy from not playing team ball and shot a lower %. |
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orangeblobman
Posts: 27269 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 3/1/2009 Member: #2539 Nauru |
11/8/2009 3:21 PM
It's not really MDA's job to evaluate players. That's not my issue with him. Well, I don't have an issue with him at all, really. The players just DO NOT WANT to play. What can you do about that? Sure, fire the guy, but what will change? I say we stick with this plan, bite the bullet, and look forward to a future not unlike the one the Pacers had during Walsh's tenure. Lots of playoffs, no chips, but a good team. That's all.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
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McK1
Posts: 26527 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/16/2005 Member: #964 |
11/8/2009 3:33 PM LAST EDITED: 11/8/2009 3:34 PM
nixluva wrote:McK1 wrote:nixluva wrote:They always held teams to low assist avg's and FG%. there are many ways to interpret the point diffential. in the case of MDA I'd bet the answer lies in how many more 3pt field goals phx hit on avg vs the teams they played. suns were not a defensive team. no team he has coached in th NBA showed any ability to win games on the defensive side of the ball. as for the suns kt bell and marion were good individual defenders on their own and nash led the league in charges taken. they had enough individual effort guys to feign being coached on the defensive end. the stop underrating David Lee movement
1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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TMS
Posts: 60684 Alba Posts: 617 Joined: 5/11/2004 Member: #674 USA |
11/8/2009 4:04 PM
BRIGGS wrote:My head is cooled down from last night--but my thought process is the same--they have to change something i've been preaching those things for the past 2 years & u consistently fought me on it... good to see u coming around now. After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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crzymdups
Posts: 52018 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 5/1/2004 Member: #671 USA |
11/8/2009 5:11 PM
BRIGGS wrote:King1 wrote:I think they have had chances to get rid of JJ and they havent done it. I am not sold on MDA evaluation of players agree 100%. i said this over the summer and people said i was crazy. they could have offered AI the full MLE for one season and the starting PG or SG position and we would have come here and at least we'd have an identity and a guy who cared. ¿ △ ?
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sebstar
Posts: 25698 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 6/2/2002 Member: #249 USA |
11/8/2009 5:15 PM
man, that seat is going to get hot as hell for Donnie. Even though they'll blame Isiah for it, if we have a season where we have one of the worst records in the league, but no pick, cats will lose their ****.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets.
--Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
11/8/2009 7:25 PM
I think D'Antoni is in the hot seat. He did not do well in Phoenix when the media and fans became critical of him and that was in Phoenix.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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sebstar
Posts: 25698 Alba Posts: 4 Joined: 6/2/2002 Member: #249 USA |
11/8/2009 7:41 PM LAST EDITED: 11/8/2009 8:33 PM
CrushAlot wrote:I think D'Antoni is in the hot seat. He did not do well in Phoenix when the media and fans became critical of him and that was in Phoenix. ur right. he'll be the fall guy more than likely. Only thing that donnie and d'antoni have in their favor is that there has been so much instability in management, and with our coaches, that dolan and co. might dig in their heels as opposed to making another change. My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets.
--Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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Vmart
Posts: 31800 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 5/23/2002 Member: #247 USA |
11/8/2009 10:23 PM
Knicks have a lot of players who just don't give a shyt. When it is all said and done its has been the case for sometime now. 2010 or 2011 it is going to be the same year in and year out. This team is worse than the last years team and the players are basically the same. Only thing I can come up with is they just don't give a shyt.
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DrAlphaeus
Posts: 23751 Alba Posts: 10 Joined: 12/19/2007 Member: #1781 |
11/9/2009 1:16 AM
Patience, Daniel-san.
I know that in this 24-7-365 city waiting is a synonym for wasting, but what are you going to do? Our top three guys are in the last year of their contracts. Now folks want to bring AI. I'm just waiting for Melo in 2011. Don't try to fight it fellas. Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
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Bippity10
Posts: 13999 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 1/26/2004 Member: #574 |
11/9/2009 1:53 PM
In LB's year, the players quit on the coach because he was mean. We all hopped on the fire LB bandwagon and what was the result? The result was that we taught the players that it's okay to quit on your coach and your team as long as the circumstances are okay. We did not teach our young guys like David Lee and Nate to suck it up and play harder when things get bad, instead we taught them that it was okay to quit when it's someone else's fault that things aren't going well. Our environment stayed the same, an organization where you go to collect your money, play however you want, and in the end management will fire the coach and the GM.
Fast forward a few years and what is happening. We are in the midst of gutting our roster to start over again. Every player has a 1 year contract for a reason. Because we realize that they are not winners and are trying to gut the roster to bring in real winners and real stars. Now the team instead of seeing this as an opportunity for them to step up and show the world that they are worthy of long-term contracts. Instead of showing the world that they are really good players and that NY management are idiots for not signing them to long term contracts what do they do? They instead pout and quit once again. they aren't loved so they stop playing. A new batch to go along with some of the same faces. And what do the papers and the fans want??? They want to commit the same mistake of the past. Fire the coach, and show players that in NY it's okay for you to give us nothing. When you quit we will blame the coach. Bip tried to warn you when we fired LB. I don't care if you are a D'Antoni fan or not. This would be the worst possible time to start cleaning house again. Eventually you have to gut this thing. Eventually you will have to suffer some seasons like this as you start over. Question is, do you want to do it now or postpone it again for another 3 or 4 years. I'm trying to warn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just hope that people will like me
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