TMS wrote:unless u'r practicing w/these guys on a daily basis & know exactly what MDA's reasoning is behind not letting Hill see minutes right now, neither do any of you, so don't assume it's because the guy stinks.

So now we have to be insiders to comment on the players? What nonesense.

Hill isn’t playing right now over Jared and Millicic because he isn’t as good. That’s pretty F’ing safe to say. You don’t have to have been in the freaking practices to say that for sure, though the opinion is certainly buttressed by Hill’s performance is summer league. That isn’t to say he isn’t ever going to be as good, but he shouldn’t be on the court right now. JJSlim and Milli may have some useful skills, particularly on defense, but all told they present a pretty low bar to get over, one that some might expect a mid-lottery pick who was ready to play to easily get over.

But Hills a project. And we shouldn’t have picked a project.

RemBee76 wrote:

TMS wrote:unless u'r practicing w/these guys on a daily basis & know exactly what MDA's reasoning is behind not letting Hill see minutes right now, neither do any of you, so don't assume it's because the guy stinks.

So now we have to be insiders to comment on the players? What nonesense.

Hill isn’t playing right now over Jared and Millicic because he isn’t as good. That’s pretty F’ing safe to say. You don’t have to have been in the freaking practices to say that for sure, though the opinion is certainly buttressed by Hill’s performance is summer league. That isn’t to say he isn’t ever going to be as good, but he shouldn’t be on the court right now. JJSlim and Milli may have some useful skills, particularly on defense, but all told they present a pretty low bar to get over, one that some might expect a mid-lottery pick who was ready to play to easily get over.

But Hills a project. And we shouldn’t have picked a project.

what other freakin' rookies aren't projects taken last year? every damn rookie is a project. ur just spilling sour grapes cuz we didn't take ur boy Jennings & he's looking good so far... fine, play ur "I told u so" card as long as u want, just don't go into hiding when Hill starts playing well... man up to being wrong if that happens, cuz i'll be the first to admit i was wrong about Hill's potential if he ends up being a busted draft pick (& he wasn't even the guy i wanted to begin with)

RemBee76 wrote:

TMS wrote:so far this season Gallo's #'s look better than Gordon's

No, actually, they don't. Gallo may be scoring a point more per game but Gordon has a higher FG% overall and from behind the arc. Gallo, in fact, is shooting something like 35% from inside the 3-pt line. Thats going to have to improve.

The fact that he is neck and neck with Gordon when this is, for all intents and purposes, Gallo's first year and he's coming off back surgery shows us the type of talent he possess.

Furthermore, Gallo is what about 4 to 5 inches taller? Gallo's ceiling is higher, IMO, and I am more comfortable with him than Gordon. No Clipper envy here.

IMO Gallo's the perfect guy to put around a franchise guy cuz he doesn't need the ball in his hands as much to be productive... the numbers he's putting up right now compared to the minutes he's playing is pretty impressive if u ask me especially for a kid his age... Gordon's an equally good looking prospect but Gallo's right there with him in the top rookies discussion from last year's draft based on what we've seen out of him this year... unless he just has some big drop back in production this year or he sustains another injury, i don't see any reason to believe he won't continue to improve.

TMS wrote:u just argued that Donnie's plan is to rebuild through free agency, so under that logic if Donnie's plan comes to fruition & we can draw a marquee guy like Lebron, Wade or Melo here in the next year or 2, then how is Eric Gordon a better fit on this team than Gallo?

To start with, Gordon is the better draw. With him we have a better shot at getting a LeBron or Bosh because he looks like a legit second option on offense while Gallo (right now) looks like a specialist.

Second of all, in D’Antoni’s system there is a lot of ball to go around. It doesn’t matter if you “need the ball in your hands” if you are an efficient scorer and can pass the ball. Gordon is better in both areas. Yes, the numbers Gallo are putting up are impressive, but you can’t tell me Gordon wouldn’t be putting up 22 per in this offense.

Another word for versatile is “tweener”. No, I don’t see Gallo as a PF. I have an easier time seeing him at SG, and even that wouldn’t work out so well for him defensively. Gordon could share the ball with a Wade or James in the backcourt, and both would be good enough distributors for that to work.

I’m not going to get drawn into a discussion comparing the two point for point. I like Gallo, and skill wise I can see a point sometime in the near future where they might be considered a wash. I disagree strongly that the time is now, but primarily I’m only saying that right now Gordon is the better fit. With a more versatile offensive game to go along with the 3-pt shooting, and with our team so desperate for a shooting guard we are all drooling over Larry Hughes after two good games, I think I have made a point I can now rest on.

Bippity10 wrote:You don't build through the draft. You don't build through free-agency, and you don't build via-trade. A true organization takes advantage of all three. If you built soley through the draft you are looking at, at least 5 years before you compete. We don't want to believe that but this is what you are looking at.

One has to wonder then, Bip, why we were looking at giving Jason Kidd and Grant Hill long term contracts.

Of course a team has to use all the tools at its disposal to build; draft, free-agency, trades...but that doesn't mean all plans are built the same. We don't have a draft pick this year, means we aren't planning around sucking hard this season to possibly pick up a franchise talent. Wisely or unwisely, our focus has been attracting a FA in 2010 and that means having a team to bring him to.

I'm not spouting nonsense here man. Walsh has said it. His early summer supported it. He wanted to compete this year. If you are building primarily via the draft that isn't a concern, and you take on all the long-term projects you want.

We aren't doing that. Post-rationalize it any way you want, Jordan Hill doesn't fit the plan.

duhon is playing an absurd amount of minutes (56 minutes vs. charlotte, 40/gm for the year), and douglas can hardly get off the bench. i don't understand how a team lacking so much in overall talent at the end of last year AND knowing it needs to plug in some pieces to attract a FA (and avoid the lottery since the pick goes to the jazz!!) can draft TWO guys in the first round, BOTH of whom can't make it onto the court and posture as it being anything other than a complete failure and miss of draft picks. it was astounding to me at the time and it still perplexes me how they passed on jennings. he is tailor made to play in this offense, not to mention he was seen as a top 5 pick coming out of HS and went to EUR for a year (an admirable move without a doubt) and was an absolute steal at 8. i know the whole "big men take time to develop" and "frye actually had a few double doubles in phoeniex this year", but the hill pick is indefensible, in my opinion. they need value right away AND long term at 8 and they whiffed, plain and simple.

RemBee76 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:You don't build through the draft. You don't build through free-agency, and you don't build via-trade. A true organization takes advantage of all three. If you built soley through the draft you are looking at, at least 5 years before you compete. We don't want to believe that but this is what you are looking at.

One has to wonder then, Bip, why we were looking at giving Jason Kidd and Grant Hill long term contracts.

Of course a team has to use all the tools at its disposal to build; draft, free-agency, trades...but that doesn't mean all plans are built the same. We don't have a draft pick this year, means we aren't planning around sucking hard this season to possibly pick up a franchise talent. Wisely or unwisely, our focus has been attracting a FA in 2010 and that means having a team to bring him to.

I'm not spouting nonsense here man. Walsh has said it. His early summer supported it. He wanted to compete this year. If you are building primarily via the draft that isn't a concern, and you take on all the long-term projects you want.

We aren't doing that. Post-rationalize it any way you want, Jordan Hill doesn't fit the plan.

The Kidd and Hill situation was answered by martin and that is exactly what I would have said.

Again, the media and DJ have convinced us this is all about Lebron. It's not. If it were, then we would have done exactly what you said. That's what people keep missing. The media hammers this "Lebron or bust" nonsense but Walsh doesn't say that, and his moves don't support this, and yet we still think it's true. What Walsh said is the quickest way to rebuild this thing is via free agency. No where does that say that it's the only way. No where does it say that Lebron or bust. What it says is that they will draft who they think has the largest upside(right or wrong) and then go into free-agency with all the money you can muster. No more attacking free-agency impotent with the MLE, but to attack with cap space.

This team is a work in progress. It still is being torn down. There will be more trades. We are no longer building on top of a bad team(which we have done every year since Patrick left). We are re-doing everything. If for some unbelievable reason Lebron decides to come here, our rebuilding curve just shortened. If not, you are in the exact same situation you would have been in anyway, relying on the growth of a couple lottery picks and hoping to dump contracts.

RemBee76 wrote:

martin wrote: Hill and Douglas never got mentioned. Walsh never entirely banked his 'win this year' ploy on Hill; you make it sound like Hill is the end-all to the win this year thing, it's not.

You're going to have to show me where I even came close to making it soind like this is what I was saying.

What I am saying is Walsh was looking for someone who would contribute this year. And if he wasn't, he should have been.

Walsh was looking for guard play to immediately help out this year, and thus the selection of Douglas. Walsh has publically stated that Hill is a project type of guy, and he knew he was also a back-to-basket player who would be fish out of water in MDA system. He also knew Al, Lee, Gallo, Darko all played the 4/5, the same position Hill is slated to play. He also knew that Lee may either jet or get offer he couldn't match.

Walsh wasn't going to and didn't draft a player at #8 to have immediate impact. He drafted what he thought was best talent long term. Same with Gallo.

What you are trying to say, if I get it right, is that YOU think Walsh was looking for someone who would contribute this year, or YOU think he should have.