Finestrg wrote:

TMS wrote:(assuming we miss out on Lebron & Wade, trying to be as realistic as possible)

- sign Chris Bosh to the max
- re-sign David Lee to 4 yr $32 mil
- trade Wilson Chandler for Ricky Rubio
- draft the best SG available w/the #32 pick
- make due w/that for a year until u can make a move for Melo in 2011

OK, there ya go. See this wouldn't be terrible either. See something like this just proves it's not LeBron or bust. I'd love to land the King, but this here is a very nice play B TMS is talking about. Bosh and then Melo a year later? Man, I could make that work....

I like this Plan B as well. You can target Bosh for close to max or Joe Johnson for just a little less.

TheGame wrote:

TMS wrote:(assuming we miss out on Lebron & Wade, trying to be as realistic as possible)

- sign Chris Bosh to the max
- re-sign David Lee to 4 yr $32 mil
- trade Wilson Chandler for Ricky Rubio
- draft the best SG available w/the #32 pick
- make due w/that for a year until u can make a move for Melo in 2011

I agree with everything except resigning Lee. If we get Bosh, I would let Lee go in a sign and trade. If we can sign Bosh, keep Hill, and then turn Lee into a SG, we would have a fairly solid team. Keven Martin comes to mind. Eventually, the Kings are going to realize Evans is a SG. They may start looking to move Martin to free up some cap space. A deal of Nate, Lee, and a future draft pick (plus $3 mill) would give them good depth for a team lacking depth.

I like trying to trade Chandler for Rubio. I would start working on that deal immediately.

I don't like adding Martin's future salary (he's on the hook for over $11 million next year which would kill any idea of going after a max player next summer) but I like your idea of trying to come up with a shooting guard here somewhere. Only thing is I think the time for us to trade Lee and/or Nate has passed us by. Remember, unlike this summer where we had a little more leeway, any trade involving Lee or Nate now will have to come with their approval. The trade window now looks like it's shut with these two. It's doubtful they'll approve a trade to just go anywhere for the rest of the year. I don't see them uprooting themselves from NY. They hold the cards - they have security & piece of mind right now knowing where they'll be living for the rest of the year. That's big. Plus they each have another million dollar kicker coming to them if the Knicks make the playoffs which is another big incentive to stay. Any trade idea would have to involve them going to a legit top 5 team I would think. Otherwise, I think they're both content to stay here and finish out the year...

Too bad there's too many variables involved in making an NBA trade (moving Lee and Nate requiring their approval, not wanting to add addition salary past this year, etc..), because I still think Portland is a good trading partner for us. Forget guys like Bayless and Fernandez who they obviously don't want to part ways with -- a guy that would fit in here really well is Martell Webster. Very young, 6'7", pretty athletic with a superior shooting stroke. I know we probably don't want to do something like this because taking back any kind of money right now might interfere with what they plan on doing this off-season & beyond but I think it makes some sense. First off, Webster only makes $4.8 million next year which is completely managable. That would still leave us $18-19 million under the cap which is more than enough to sign a max. 2010 player and enough room left over to pick up another player as well before we'd hit the cap (or keep the money available to sign a draft pick(s) without going over the cap). Second - consider the 2-guard problem solved. This guy can really shot the ball and I think he'd thrive here. In the Portland/Oklahoma City game two days ago, even though he didn't shot it great, he came up big in the second half when Roy was struggling. Big 3s and 1 huge drive and dunk right down the middle of the lane. After the game, I listened to the Portland announcers interview Webster and you wouldn't think this guy's only 22 years old. He's both physically mature and very well spoken. I came away impressed listening to him talk about how Shane Battier got the better of him the prior game and how he wanted to come out with better all-around effort...He also appears completely healthy now, completely healed from that stress fracture in his foot from last year. If we could ever get Lee to approve a trade to go there (Portland ain't just any team - that team's got one of the better young cores in the league and he'd fit perfectly there. Pritchard's wanted him for some time and it's nice to know you're wanted) I think we could do something with them. Lee and cash for Webster and Outlaw?? Lee and Chandler for Webster, Outlaw and their 2010 1st rounder or Paddy Mills/Dante Cunningham?? Doubt it happens, again too may factors that either limit our flexibilty or are out of our control. Too bad, I like Webster and I don't think he'll ever flourish there like he could behind Roy and Rudy. Moving Lee would kinda force Mike to give Hill and to a lesser degree, Darko, a look now, another angle I like in this scenario..

I still think our most realistic trading partner right now is Utah. Chandler for Koufos & Wes Matthews or Chandler for Wes Matthews, cash and our lottery pick back continue to be two scenarios that make a lot of sense to me for both teams...

JohnWallace44 wrote:That's a great point MS. Joe Johnson turned down $15mil per, so it would seem like a losing battle to try and sign him to a $12mil per year deal.

Another possibility that we're not thinking about is that we could sign and trade any of these FA's for a package of expirings and big time prospects. For instance, what if Utah has a top 3 pick with our slot in the draft... We could S&T one of the MaxFA's to Utah in return for a John Wall type of player and then hold the cap space for 'Melo in 2011.

However if a team is desperate for cap space and is willing to trade a high pick to get it we can do that. Thats part of the advantage we have. Its not just about Lebron or bust.

fishmike wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:That's a great point MS. Joe Johnson turned down $15mil per, so it would seem like a losing battle to try and sign him to a $12mil per year deal.

Another possibility that we're not thinking about is that we could sign and trade any of these FA's for a package of expirings and big time prospects. For instance, what if Utah has a top 3 pick with our slot in the draft... We could S&T one of the MaxFA's to Utah in return for a John Wall type of player and then hold the cap space for 'Melo in 2011.

you cant sign and trade a player to another team.

However if a team is desperate for cap space and is willing to trade a high pick to get it we can do that. Thats part of the advantage we have. Its not just about Lebron or bust.

Didn't Memphis S&T some guys over the summer sending them to other teams?

Blatche/Crittendon/Mike James
for
Chandler/Jeffries/Hill

Crit is a big combo guard to play opposite Hughes, James gives us shooting guard depth, and Blatche can play the 3/4/5 spots and spread the floor even more.

Chandler and Jeffries give them more balanced play from the forward spots and Hill is a nice chip for them. They aren't in position for a 2010 FA anyway, so they are a perfect team to absorb Jeffries.

Gives us more cap room, clearing about half of Jeffries salary, which would give us more of a shot at getting two players at near Max dollars.

Panos wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Quick question with Utah - If Matt Harpring retires, are the Jazz granted a medical exception to use for a replacement? If so how much is it? And there's a difference between a voluntary retirement and a retirement that's forced on a player right (like Mobley)?? Is he retired yet - I can't find any confirmation anywhere but I could've sworn I saw him on NBA TV with Kamal giving team previews with either Eric Snow or Steve Smith...He wouldn't be doing that if he was still an active player right??

Man Chandler to Utah is definitely something we should be looking at..

I don't think so. I think if a player retires, he just retires. Comes off the cap.

the player has to retire due to medical reasons in order to be taken off the cap... otherwise his salary stays on the books... no medical exception is granted that u can use to acquire a different player

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

53. How do retired players count against the cap?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to his team's team salary when he plays in his 10th game in any one season (including pre-season, regular season and playoff games). This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. A team loses this salary cap relief even if the player later signs and plays 10 games with a different team.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

TMS wrote:

Panos wrote:

Finestrg wrote:Quick question with Utah - If Matt Harpring retires, are the Jazz granted a medical exception to use for a replacement? If so how much is it? And there's a difference between a voluntary retirement and a retirement that's forced on a player right (like Mobley)?? Is he retired yet - I can't find any confirmation anywhere but I could've sworn I saw him on NBA TV with Kamal giving team previews with either Eric Snow or Steve Smith...He wouldn't be doing that if he was still an active player right??

Man Chandler to Utah is definitely something we should be looking at..

I don't think so. I think if a player retires, he just retires. Comes off the cap.

the player has to retire due to medical reasons in order to be taken off the cap... otherwise his salary stays on the books... no medical exception is granted that u can use to acquire a different player

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

53. How do retired players count against the cap?

Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers' team salary in those seasons. It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team's team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player's entire salary for that season is removed from the team's team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley's entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley's salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

If the player "proves the doctors wrong" and resumes his career, then his salary is returned to his team's team salary when he plays in his 10th game in any one season (including pre-season, regular season and playoff games). This allows a player to attempt to resume his career without affecting his team unless his comeback is ultimately successful. A team loses this salary cap relief even if the player later signs and plays 10 games with a different team.

Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.

Why would a voluntarilly retired player continue to get paid?

TMS wrote:

It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

we saw this happen w/Allan Houston's contract, didn't we? regardless, the salary remains on the books for cap purposes.

Goddamnit! I wanna be a pro baller!

Bippity10 wrote:

Panos wrote:

TMS wrote:

It is at the team's discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

we saw this happen w/Allan Houston's contract, didn't we? regardless, the salary remains on the books for cap purposes.

Goddamnit! I wanna be a pro baller!

I'm with you. If I was a pro basketball player, I'd have that chick from misery hobble me, and then just retire adn count my millions

u wouldn't get to collect unless u had served ur team for years like Allan did... unless in some rare cases u have a generous owner who cuts u a huge break, like what happened to JAson Williams after he broke his neck & the Bulls decided to pay out his contract anyway... they coulda just kicked his broke neck ass to the curb but obviously they thought highly of the guy & didn't wanna make him pay for a career ending injury.

so Bip, even if u break ur wrists & can't post anymore i'm sure martin & Andrew will keep ur post count intact.