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Tommy Dee: Is the Knicks Plan "Smart?"
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oohah
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10/27/2009  11:26 AM
Plan is right on track. It's not all about Lebron, it's about flexibility.

If the plan is not all about LeBron, Wade, or another star franchise player I think you need to inform Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni! It's pretty common knowledge that the Knicks are creating this salary cap space in order to land LeBron.

The Knicks already have flexibility and could easily start building. But since the Knicks are making a play for LeBron, they are not even looking for building-block players. Is that not obvious?

It's all about landing LeBron, or barring that a franchise talent. If one of those 2 things does not happen the plan is a bust.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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oohah
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10/27/2009  11:34 AM
On the plus side for Donnie Walsh I think he played the David lee and Nate Robinson contract situations perfectly.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Finestrg
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10/27/2009  11:50 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2009  12:28 PM
I think the plan in place here is sound. The target is LeBron James as it should be. He's the best NBA FA I'll probably ever see in my lifetime and our GM has put us in a position to make the best offer possible to the man when the time comes. I appreciate that. Don't see how you can argue with the logic there. Now if he decides to stay in Cleveland all is not lost IMO. I don't see it as LeBron or bust. Never did...I see it more like LeBron or continue to be patient...

First, I'd pass on all these other top 2010 FAs if I can't get LeBron -

Wade (great player but has the creaky knees, he's a little older now, he's not leaving South Beach anyway).
Bosh (snickered at & all but dismissed the thought of coming to NY not too long ago which I didn't care for at all -- as good as he is, I honestly don't feel like he brings that much more production to the table than David Lee - why give this guy $14 million when you could prossibly start Lee in the $7-9 million dollar range to return?).
Amar'e (racking up quite the injury history, not nearly as explosive as he once was, a little older now).
Joe Johnson (he's OK but not nearly on the same level as some of these other guys - no way I'd give this guy huge money. This guy's not a #1 for a team, barely a #2 type really. Played poorly against the Celtics in the playoffs last year from what I saw).

With LeBron back to Cleveland, these other four top guys just don't do it for me. Instead, I'd immediately switch gears to a plan B that involved retention of all of our own key FAs, namely Lee, Harrington, Nate and possibly Darko if he plays well and manages to have some kind of an impact and I'd look to bring all back to sensible deals where hopefully I could get them to concede a little money in 2011 (2011 would then become my big FA splash year). Duhon I'll probably pass on - this guy's OK but I can't see giving him anywhere from $5-7 million a season to return which is what he'll want. Might need to look elsewhere for another veteran tide-us-over PG for next year...Next, I'll be looking to amass as many additional draft assets as I can get my hands on. We don't have our own 1st rounder but that doesn't mean we can't have a successful draft next summer provided we really do our homework on some of the nice talent that'll be available a bit lower. Like we just did this year, I'd look to purchase a 1st rounder and possibly even an additional high 2nd rounder - that would give us 3 picks which would be instrumental in helping with the on-going rebuild. I'd love to come away with a PG, possibly even 2, and a big man. The PGs I like that should be available a little lower are Sherron Collins, Nic Wise, Jerome Randle and Greivis Vasquez. And the big guys I have my eye on right now are C AJ Ogilvy and PF Trevor Booker. SG Lance Stephenson is another guy I'll be keeping an eye on - if he doesn't have a great freshman year he probably goes back to school, but if we could get him low first round, he might be an option at the 2 for us. Might be interested in coming back to NY to play at the Garden too... I'll continue to keep an eye on all college talent, but as of right now, I feel like these guys would be nice fits here...If we lost out on LeBron but turned around and retained most of our own key free agents, drafted hopefully 2 or 3 of the guys I mentioned and then turned our attention to the 2011 FA class (where we'll have even more flexibilty when Curry and Jeffries come off the books), I don't think that's a terrible plan B...The last thing I wanna see them do though is panic and throw a ton of money at Joe Johnson just because they can...

Rookie
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10/27/2009  12:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2009  12:07 PM
oohah wrote:
And to make matters worse, it looks like Walsh has missed the mark badly for 2 straight lottery picks - yes, it remains to be seen, but when I see Brooke Lopez and Terence Williams both picked at #11 I see real building block players that will help attract top talent.

Ouch!!! No, double ouch!@!! Seriously, I think you are being overly critical. I mean, come on, it's not like we have needed a SG/PG or a Center who can beast the last couple of years. Sheesh, some people

CrushAlot
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10/27/2009  12:12 PM
Rookie wrote:
oohah wrote:
And to make matters worse, it looks like Walsh has missed the mark badly for 2 straight lottery picks - yes, it remains to be seen, but when I see Brooke Lopez and Terence Williams both picked at #11 I see real building block players that will help attract top talent.

Ouch!!! No, double ouch!@!! Seriously, I think you are being overly critical. I mean, come on, it's not like we have needed a SG/PG or a Center who can beast the last couple of years. Sheesh, some people


I am glad you are saying it. When I post it I get told that I am reposting stuff from August 08. It is hard to watch Rod Thorn run circles around the Knicks front office.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
MS
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10/27/2009  12:16 PM
I think he played the Nate situation all wrong actually. The coach doesn't seem to think Nate is part of the long term plan so Nate should have been moved and 6.5 million in salary cleared by getting rid of Jared Jefferies.

Instead Walsh drafted a kid that doesn't even know how to play that's going to be stuck on the bench all season long because he needs to show case the player he could have moved at last years deadline. The move would have probably made the Knicks worse and improved their draft position by one slot and given us Steph Curry.

Listen we can all be patient. We have been patient. We don't have a lottery pick. We don't get Lebron. The franchise is where exactly? Had Walsh been more creative and actually drafted well that actually might have been in the cards. But you are asking fans to wait another year and have Donnie **** up another pick and then hope Kevin Durant leaves, Westbrook, Harden, Thabo, Green to come here?

Miami has Wade, the Bulls have Noah, Thomas, Rose, Deng the Nets have Williams, Lopez, Harris, Lee if you are leaving a good team why would you sign with the Knicks. This city doesn't offer ****. We love it, but really what's so great about it? If you are a star you are a star Wade and Lebron are already global icons with virtually no pressure on them. Why come with a lousy roster, bad weather, and expectations you will never live up too.

oohah
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10/27/2009  12:32 PM
MS wrote:I think he played the Nate situation all wrong actually. The coach doesn't seem to think Nate is part of the long term plan so Nate should have been moved and 6.5 million in salary cleared by getting rid of Jared Jefferies.

Right now Nate Robinson, David Lee, and Du-Du are all perfect pieces to package with the Jeffries and Currys of the world.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
MS
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10/27/2009  12:38 PM
Correct that's why that move should have been done last season when nate wasn't making 4 million.

And unless you're an allstar no one can be packaged with Eddy

Rookie
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10/27/2009  12:44 PM
hey oohah,

just curious what you think about this. what if the Knicks had offered Brandon Bass the full MLE instead of chasing Kidd, Hill and Sessions?

oohah
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10/27/2009  12:45 PM
MS wrote:Correct that's why that move should have been done last season when nate wasn't making 4 million.

And unless you're an allstar no one can be packaged with Eddy

The 4 millions makes him more valuable because it comes off the cap at the end of the season. Ditto David Lee's and Du-Du's salaries.
Their expiring money makes them more valuable, not less.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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10/27/2009  12:46 PM
Rookie wrote:hey oohah,

just curious what you think about this. what if the Knicks had offered Brandon Bass the full MLE instead of chasing Kidd, Hill and Sessions?

I like Bass, but not that much, especially considering we don't have the star for him to play off of.

The guy I would have offered the MLE or close to it to is Ramon Session. I think Walsh blew it big time with that kid.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
MS
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10/27/2009  1:03 PM
You will have to explain how it makes someone more valuable that they have an expiring contract attached to Eddy Curry or Jared Jefferies. You're taking on salary and getting an asset you will likely have to sign for the same amount of cash
Nalod
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10/27/2009  1:04 PM
Second guessing on trades we have only rumors to go on without details is tough.

Walsh or any GM is ever going to play it perfect in one year of being on the job.

He is just Eddy and JJ away from being able to clear enough cap to sign two max contracts. Sessions only would have added to it.

Moving up in the draft would have been nice but we don't know the price to which we would have to pay and we don't know how good Hill will be for at least two seasons.

Walsh is working a plan and it will have some breaks and disappointments along the way.

oohah
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10/27/2009  1:13 PM
MS wrote:You will have to explain how it makes someone more valuable that they have an expiring contract attached to Eddy Curry or Jared Jefferies. You're taking on salary and getting an asset you will likely have to sign for the same amount of cash

Okay, I'll explain.

1) Jameer Nelson gets hurt again.

2) They need a PG.

3) The Knicks offer them Duhon as a fill in, and they only have to commit to him until the end of the season because his 6 million comes off the books. That is why he is more valauble than he would be if he had more years on his contract. And they take 6 million off the books.

4) The Knicks say, hold up, we want something out of this too! You have to take Jarred Jeffries. and we don't want to take back anything but picks, expirings, or perhaps a decent player that fills a need for us - such as Marcin Gortat.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Rookie
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10/27/2009  1:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2009  1:31 PM
oohah wrote:
Rookie wrote:hey oohah,

just curious what you think about this. what if the Knicks had offered Brandon Bass the full MLE instead of chasing Kidd, Hill and Sessions?

I like Bass, but not that much, especially considering we don't have the star for him to play off of.

The guy I would have offered the MLE or close to it to is Ramon Session. I think Walsh blew it big time with that kid.

oohah

maybe I'm livin' in the past, but Bass seems like he could develop into another Anthony Mason type player. That said Sessions doesn't look like he's in the starting rotation. The wolves really need to figure out what the f they're doing cuz this kid has proved (IMHO) that he has the talent to be on the court. BTW - Lee's BYC salary matches up perfectly with Sessions salary. Coincidence, I hope not

Bippity10
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10/27/2009  1:36 PM
oohah wrote:
Rookie wrote:hey oohah,

just curious what you think about this. what if the Knicks had offered Brandon Bass the full MLE instead of chasing Kidd, Hill and Sessions?

I like Bass, but not that much, especially considering we don't have the star for him to play off of.

The guy I would have offered the MLE or close to it to is Ramon Session. I think Walsh blew it big time with that kid.

oohah

Don't get me wrong, I like Sessions and would have liked to see him instead of Duhon, but "blew it big time"? He was a back up on one of the worst teams in the leauge and then moved to a new horrible team and is a back-up here. How was he changing our fortunes?

I just hope that people will like me
oohah
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10/27/2009  1:47 PM
Bippity10 wrote:Don't get me wrong, I like Sessions and would have liked to see him instead of Duhon, but "blew it big time"? He was a back up on one of the worst teams in the leauge and then moved to a new horrible team and is a back-up here. How was he changing our fortunes?

Sessions has produced when given playing time. At times he has put up extremely impressive numbers. Getting him for the MLE or less with only a 3 year commitment woudl have been great. Rolling wit Du-Du by comparison blows big-time. Sessions would have fit into this offense like hand-to-glove.

In regard to Milwaukee: Scott Skiles is a maniac; playing Ridnour over Sessions. Minnesota has put themselves in a poor situation with their point guards. If they want to win (more) Flynn will end up on the bench and Sessions will get 30+ minutes per game.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
kam77
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10/27/2009  1:54 PM
oohah wrote:
kam77 wrote:
So you'd take Richard Jefferson instead of try for LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Johnson, Staudamire, .....????

I didn't say nor imply that at all.

My point is that good players do move for expiring contracts.

Good players by your definition, team-killers by another. Vince Carter etc... hate to break it, these guys are not winning anything. These are players their old teams were looking to get rid of ... weren't good enough to be centerpieces of their existing teams. Rejects.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
kam77
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10/27/2009  1:56 PM
MS wrote:Well there have been a number of good players moved for expiring deals

Baron Davis, Richard Jefferson, Vince Carter, Shawn Marion, Marcus Camby, Chauncey Billups to name a few.

Rejects.

Billups was a champion but he was a straight FA signing.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
djsunyc
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10/27/2009  2:00 PM
kam77 wrote:
MS wrote:Well there have been a number of good players moved for expiring deals

Baron Davis, Richard Jefferson, Vince Carter, Shawn Marion, Marcus Camby, Chauncey Billups to name a few.

Rejects.

Billups was a champion but he was a straight FA signing.

all of them were integral parts to 2nd round or better playoff teams - how are they rejects? that's silly.

Tommy Dee: Is the Knicks Plan "Smart?"

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