JW, in 2011, there's not much worthwhile talent that's worth abandoning 2010. Dwight Howard and CP3 expire in 2012. So in essense, you're looking to say "F' 2010" for the sake of Shane Battier, Michael Redd, AK47." That's a plan that Isiah would have made because those are guys you use to build around superstars. Those are guys you add when you feel you are already a contender and you need a boost. Not guys that are worth abandoning ship for.

And for the record, Al Harrington is better than Jamal Crawford, and there was no way it was worth keeping Zach Randolph.

[Edited by - Allanfan20 on 08-09-2009 5:09 PM]

Has it crossed anyones mind that maybe Walsh is maybe holding off on doing anything big besides his cap clearning and draft pick moves? It might not be flashy at this point, but it's the smartest thing he could be doing.

And nobody is saying he's doing great. We don't know yet. We're hoping things will lead to something great though.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

MARTIN:

what's the alternate plan? Richard Jefferson, Baron Davis, Tyson Chandler? JW, state what you would have done.

You start with the big pieces first and work the others around him/them. 2010 was realistically the first chance the Knicks will have after the Isiah cleansing is done.

Hey, its not easy, but I think you could have an intern do what Donnie's done thus far and people want to make it like he's done some great job. Trading two players that are scoring over 20 a game for Al Harrington and Tim Thomas isn't exactly turning water into wine.

Given the reins of the current team I would first go to the podium and tell the world that the New York Knicks are bigger than any one player. The LeBron slurping must end.

I would then look to 2011 when Eddy and Jeffries come off the books, not 2010. 2010 is a pipe dream, especially after the Nate/Jeffries rumored trade fell through.

I would look at Detroit's Tayshaun Prince, Houston's Shane Battier, Memphis' Mike Conley, the Bucks Michael Redd, and yes Utah's AK47.

I would look to take players like that from those teams in return for salary relief for the 2nd half of this year and next year. In the case of AK47 I would ask for our pick back. In the case of Tayshaun you'd have to give them something in addition to cap relief (assuming Detroit struggles).

I would look at deals like that, that would expire in 2011. That way you take advantage of a desperate economic situation. Try to give the team at least a shot, and go for Durant in 2011. At the very least you don't look like the the most pathetic franchise in sports begging for FA's to give them a sniff.

You ask Donnie to stop waiting for 2010... and your plan is to wait for 2011?

Prince and Battier and the NY 2010 #1 pick aren't going anywhere (not for what the Knicks could offer).

And you are willing to take a risk on Redd, Conley, AK47 - who don't get you anywhere - instead of going for LeBron and the rest of the free agents? That's the plan?

Tell me what intern you stole that plan from so we can her out of the truck.

posters like johnwallace is the reason isiah and all the other blowhards in the media say "you can't rebuild in NY."

walsh built a consistent playoff team for 2 decades in indiana, inherited not just the worst team in the NBA but in all of organized pro sports and 2 years in, with prime cap space available now less than a year away, you want him to screw the LBJ plan its bigger than one guy! and go get mike conley and andrei kirilenko, guys with real value! screw lebron, i'd rather have conley and tayshaun and mike redd. hahahaha

Posted by Moonangie:

2010 is about LBJ, straight up. If we miss there, then it's really always been the 2011 plan. It will suck to endure a second crapola season if we miss on Lebron, but we would be idiots to assume he has no interest in the NYK. It's the biggest stage for him, and a moribund franchise on the rebuild. He could see it as a perfect fit for creating his enduring legacy.

And if not, then we will have $30m+ in cap space for the sweet FA class of 2011. I think we will get Lebron unless he chooses to stay in Cleveland (blech!). Either way, this plan is the most solid thing Knicks management has done since the 90s. You don't have to get on board, but it's silly to ask the rest of us to jump off this train before it pulls into the station.

Posted by Allanfan20:

JW, in 2011, there's not much worthwhile talent that's worth abandoning 2010.

I am pretty sure Mellow can become a FA in 2011. And he ain't no slouch. In fact, besides LBJ and Wade, he's the next best thing.

[Edited by - Moonangie on 09-08-2009 4:50 PM]

He is the next best thing, but is he worth abandoning the 2010 plan. No. At this point, there's NO REASON to not give a shot at LeBron, when we're already in position to do so. LOL, taking on Prince, AK47, or Redd and not adding a star gets us nowhere.

I can't understand the mentality that seems to be repeatedly expressed that we need to get something big done this season. I actually would have no problem if it didn't impact the cap for 2010, but it's not worth the risk otherwise, cuz what are we gonna gain? A few more wins now instead of being able to get the guys we want later makes no sense.

Besides, the team has a decent enough talent base to get something done this year. The simple act of getting more experience for Gallo and Chandler etc. is enough for me. I feel that adding Darko, Eddy, Douglas and Hill along with a SG coming out of Training Camp, this team will be in decent shape. Better than last year in fact. My main reason is that I believe we'll be better defensively!!! We had almost no inside defensive presence all of last year and now we've got a bit of depth and size inside. Not having to help as much or as early should make us better. Having Douglas will likely help keep Duhon rested. Let's not forget that we still have Hughes, who despite not being loved is a pretty good player. This team should be decent and might just get into the playoff mix for sure this time. We were in the mix for a while last year with a weaker team!!!

Posted by martin:


You ask Donnie to stop waiting for 2010... and your plan is to wait for 2011?

Prince and Battier and the NY 2010 #1 pick aren't going anywhere (not for what the Knicks could offer).

And you are willing to take a risk on Redd, Conley, AK47 - who don't get you anywhere - instead of going for LeBron and the rest of the free agents? That's the plan?

Tell me what intern you stole that plan from so we can her out of the truck.

I want the GM to put a competitive team on the floor in year 2. Is that too much to ask? Sorry, I thought this was a grown man's league.

I'd prefer if we'd get off of our knees. The LeBron slurping in unreal for what is supposed to be a keystone franchise. You don't see the Giants pulling the JV moves that the Redskins and Jets do all the time, slurping the flavor of the week players and going nowhere.

I want the Knicks GM to be try to maybe pull a Jerry Reese and outsmart his peers. How about take a risk on an upside player huh? Randolph, Beaubois, Derozan? Nah, Donnie can't do that kind of deep analysis, so he pulls guys who are adequate now instead of guys who can be great later.

I'd like Donnie to get real and shoot for major, attainable upgrades in 2011 rather than the BS that's being fed to us. LeBron is not coming and its a joke to watch the speculation.

LeBron is just an excuse to not build a team at this point, and I have to wonder if its just a front to cut salary and make the team easier to sell to a potential buyer.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Posted by martin:


You ask Donnie to stop waiting for 2010... and your plan is to wait for 2011?

Prince and Battier and the NY 2010 #1 pick aren't going anywhere (not for what the Knicks could offer).

And you are willing to take a risk on Redd, Conley, AK47 - who don't get you anywhere - instead of going for LeBron and the rest of the free agents? That's the plan?

Tell me what intern you stole that plan from so we can her out of the truck.

I want the GM to put a competitive team on the floor in year 2. Is that too much to ask? Sorry, I thought this was a grown man's league.

I'd prefer if we'd get off of our knees. The LeBron slurping in unreal for what is supposed to be a keystone franchise. You don't see the Giants pulling the JV moves that the Redskins and Jets do all the time, slurping the flavor of the week players and going nowhere.

I want the Knicks GM to be try to maybe pull a Jerry Reese and outsmart his peers. How about take a risk on an upside player huh? Randolph, Beaubois, Derozan? Nah, Donnie can't do that kind of deep analysis, so he pulls guys who are adequate now instead of guys who can be great later.

I'd like Donnie to get real and shoot for major, attainable upgrades in 2011 rather than the BS that's being fed to us. LeBron is not coming and its a joke to watch the speculation.

LeBron is just an excuse to not build a team at this point, and I have to wonder if its just a front to cut salary and make the team easier to sell to a potential buyer.

Yes it is. This isn't football buddy. This is the NBA and considering we were in the worst position possible one year ago, I'd say we are doing pretty well right now. It's not easy build a competitive team in one year and it's definitely not easy to build one with a salary cap and a bunch of guaranteed garbage contracts in your way. It's easy to pull stuff out of your ass but nobody here is slurping LeBron. Nobody. LeBron has been mentioned in the media because he's the biggest name in the NBA and will be a free agent next summer. That's it. The Knicks are not targeting one person. They are targeting getting under the cap and going from there. You're the one that's saying it's all about one guy. Clearly it isn't.

How do you know Hill wont be adequate in the future? Douglas? Can you see into the future? How do those guys have more potential than the guys we got? How are you going about your thinking? Please, shed some light.

What BS is being fed to you? That we will have cap space and go after free agents in 2010? That's not BS, that's reality. I'm not sure what BS you speak of. He never said 2010 is LeBron or bust. That's something you are pushing. I'm also not sure what you even mean by getting upgrades for 2011. 2011 is 2 years away. Are you insulting Walsh 2 years before he can make any moves? Nice job.

LeBron is an excuse not to build a team? Yeah, great work there. I'm sure the GM came here to clear salary and then retire. If that was the case, Dolan would have hired anyone for that or just kept Thomas to do that. He didn't need to pay another hefty salary to Walsh and D'Antoni to do that.

It's funny because when the Knicks were acquiring guys like Zach Randolph, mass praise was everywhere to be found for the great Isiah. Now that the Knicks are doing SOMETHING right, people are coming out of the woodwork to insult them and complain about how Donnie couldn't take an $100+ million 23 win team and make it a playoff contender in his 2nd year (btw, fryi: his 2nd season didn't even start yet). I don't and will never understand this line of thinking. I think some people should hibernate until the summer. It would put much less stress on themselves.

i would reply but a bunch of ppl seem to have written passionate arguments against john wallace so i'll save myself the time. i would sum up my feelings as follows: what is your point?

John Wallace--I am with you for the most part. I am thankful that Walsh has been disciplined to fa in 2010 and giving Darko a solid chance--I am cool with that. I think after that he has been poor from drafting and being overly conservative on down. If you disagree with something--you are whining--but I am my own man--a leader not a follower and certainly no cheerleader. Im not in love with our young players and we are going to have to renounce a boatload of players if we actually get a FA. What I fear is 5-6 more years of being terrible. It's like IT 100% the other way. We shouldve hedged our bets with Sessions--that was just plain terrible for the $ he got. I think he couldve been a 17 point 10 assists 5 rebound 46-48% PG in 38 minutes here. Ramon Sessions making 4mm per year has NOTHING to do with our cap--I GUARANTEE we WILL NOT get a Better second FA next year than Sessions. Jesus I hope we get a good first FA or we can go under the covers for 5 more years.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 09-08-2009 7:48 PM]

Posted by BRIGGS:

John Wallace--I am with you for the most part. I am thankful that Walsh has been disciplined to fa in 2010 and giving Darko a solid chance--I am cool with that. I think after that he has been poor from drafting and being overly conservative on down. If you disagree with something--you are whining--but I am my own man--a leader not a follower and certainly no cheerleader. Im not in love with our young players and we are going to have to renounce a boatload of players if we actually get a FA. What I fear is 5-6 more years of being terrible. It's like IT 100% the other way. We shouldve hedged our bets with Sessions--that was just plain terrible for the $ he got. I think he couldve been a 17 point 10 assists 5 rebound 46-48% PG in 38 minutes here. Ramon Sessions making 4mm per year has NOTHING to do with our cap--I GUARANTEE we WILL NOT get a Better second FA next year than Sessions. Jesus I hope we get a good first FA or we can go under the covers for 5 more years.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 09-08-2009 7:48 PM]

That's right. Your own man. The same guy who praised Eddy Curry and Michael Sweetney as future perennial all-star big men and Andrew Bynum as a superstar is his own man. Good for you. Doesn't mean that you are right in what you say. After all, it is just your opinion. And let's be honest, that opinion hasn't fared too well, has it?