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Mike D'Antoni and Defense
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Bippity10
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8/31/2009  12:03 PM
Posted by nixluva:

There have been plenty of examples of great defensive teams that got pretty far but just didn't have the scoring punch to win it all. I have no problem with the idea of having a great offensive team that plays solid D. Many teams have succeded in the past playing that way. There's no single formula to winning a title. Most important is putting a superior talented team on the floor that has a great shot at winning period. Then the coaching can help push that team over the top. MDA can win with a great team. He's done a lot with a team that pretty good but not great.

What Walsh does over the next couple of years is more important than MDA's defensive philosophy.

There are a lot of things that are more important than MDA's defensive philosophy. Doesn't mean that I shouldn't be curious about his thoughts(from his own mouth) about his philosophy.
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orangeblobman
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Nauru
8/31/2009  1:04 PM
so, to sum it up, it comes down to 'whatever it takes to win'.

get off the man for his defense, ok?
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jimimou
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8/31/2009  1:14 PM
^^^i think you'd be hard pressed to find a single team in nba history that has won championships by solely relying on offense. in fact, defense is more important than offense when it comes to playoffs/finals.

with that said, bip is right. let's hear dantoni talk about his defense for once rather than giving him a pass on it.

nixluva
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8/31/2009  1:37 PM
I still don't think it's that important for him to go into detail. For one thing the defense isn't that complicated. The idea is the force teams into taking more long jumpers than they're used to taking. Doing a good job of shutting down the lane and any penetration. Playing off your man a bit also makes passes tougher and giving us more chances for steals.

The reason I posted the articles was to make it clear what is happening statistically so that even tho MDA hasn't gone on record breaking down what he's doing we can see what he's asking his teams to do, by the results. We know he's said he doesn't want the team fouling and we know why. It just gives teams more high % shots and slows the game down, which he doesn't want. He wants a free flowing game that has few as possible breaks in the action. he knows that his team will be used to running for 48 and that the other team likely won't. He knows that if the other team is taking low % jumpers from 3 pt range or just about 3, that plays into our hands defensively cuz those are low % shots. This is opposed to high % low post or FT's. Also he doesn't want a lot of passing into the post and then back out, cuz that will lead to more assisted shots and higher % shooting. So his teams typically don't allow a lot of assisted shots. That's a unique approach, but paired with his offensive attack it's effective. The proof of that is his high Point Differentials when the team is capable of playing his style of D correctly, as it did in PHX.

We still have a ways to go in terms of building the team the right way. We need better perimeter defenders and that's what I believe MDA and Walsh are looking to change. Getting more length and mobility on the perimeter is gonna be key. They already have added more length and size inside to go along with that in Hill and Darko. I'll add that Lee not being able to block any shots limited us a bit and we really just lacked the length inside to make teams take tougher shots once they did get inside. Now we shouldn't have as much of a problem.

[Edited by - nixluva on 08-31-2009 1:41 PM]
Ira
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8/31/2009  1:45 PM
This staying off your man to prevent penetration may have something to do with the fact that D'Antoni's teams in Phoenix and NY weren't exactly known for their shot blocking centers. A good shot blocker inside who can pick up players that penetrate makes it easier for guards to play their man close.
kam77
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8/31/2009  2:15 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:

Bip not every coach has laid out in detail their offensive or defensive philosophy. Some coaches merely hire another coach or guru to handle the side of the ball they may not coach as well, ie Phil Jackson or Doc Rivers. MDA has a defensive philosophy that is at 1st hard to see if someone is looking for the TYPICAL defensive attacks most used. However his defensive system is as unique as his offense, which would make sense. An unconventional offense supported by an equally unique D. IMO MDA doesn't have to explain a thing. The proof of his coaching skill will be proven on the court. I see what he's doing and as we improve the talent his system will be more effective.

Nix: All I'm saying is taht I've never heard him talk about it. What does that have to do with anything else? Stop taking it so personally.

When he coached in PHX they (ESPN or some media outlet) interviewed him and he did talk about his philosophy of not fouling the opponent and making them settle for jumpshots. He talked about how his offense was a good defense... running them to the ground so they are too tired to do anything but settle. Scoring in the easiest way as quick as possible and putting pressure on them to keep up. As long as you outscore your opponent, you played better defense than they did.

If you have a problem with the philosophy lets hear it. But you can't say he's never said these words.

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Bippity10
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8/31/2009  4:58 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:

Bip not every coach has laid out in detail their offensive or defensive philosophy. Some coaches merely hire another coach or guru to handle the side of the ball they may not coach as well, ie Phil Jackson or Doc Rivers. MDA has a defensive philosophy that is at 1st hard to see if someone is looking for the TYPICAL defensive attacks most used. However his defensive system is as unique as his offense, which would make sense. An unconventional offense supported by an equally unique D. IMO MDA doesn't have to explain a thing. The proof of his coaching skill will be proven on the court. I see what he's doing and as we improve the talent his system will be more effective.

Nix: All I'm saying is taht I've never heard him talk about it. What does that have to do with anything else? Stop taking it so personally.

When he coached in PHX they (ESPN or some media outlet) interviewed him and he did talk about his philosophy of not fouling the opponent and making them settle for jumpshots. He talked about how his offense was a good defense... running them to the ground so they are too tired to do anything but settle. Scoring in the easiest way as quick as possible and putting pressure on them to keep up. As long as you outscore your opponent, you played better defense than they did.

If you have a problem with the philosophy lets hear it. But you can't say he's never said these words.

You guys are so sensitive. Not once in this entire post have I criticized the man's defense. I am one of the few people on this board that says that you can win with any style. I have never been a D'Antoni basher and as a matter of fact would place myself in the supporter category and am happy he was hired. That being said, I have never heard him talk about his defensive philosophy. I am curious to hear it from his mouth. If you have a link to him speaking about his defense in Phoenix I would like to hear it. Not because I'm being sarcastic. Not because I think his philosophy is stupid. Not because I don't think he has one. Simply because I am curious. Is this okay or does it deserve 10 more post count padding nonsense threads of me stating the same thing over and over again?

You guys are so sensitive to any discussion about his defense that even the talk of it in your mind must be negative. Funny thing is, D'Antoni responds the same way.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 31-08-2009 5:01 PM]
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nixluva
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8/31/2009  6:09 PM
Bip I understand your position and i'm not being sensitive to your feeling that he should come out and expound on his defensive philosophy. I just disagree that he has to come out and break it down. You have to also remember that this thread was started as an answer to all those who feel he doesn't really deal with the defensive side of the ball or that he doesn't have a system or really care about the defensive side of the ball. So it may have been wrongly assumed that you had a negative position regarding MDA.

That said, I have heard him talk briefly about what he expects on D many times. He's just never gone on and on about it in detail. As I've said neither have many other coaches. Some coaches simply hire a defensive guru to handle that. As i mentioned Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers aren't the architects of their defensive systems. I think I have more respect for MDA cuz he pretty much created his own based on his offensive attack. Even Van Gundy basically got his from Riley. MDA has fashioned his own unique style of O and D.
Bippity10
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8/31/2009  9:15 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Bip I understand your position and i'm not being sensitive to your feeling that he should come out and expound on his defensive philosophy. I just disagree that he has to come out and break it down. You have to also remember that this thread was started as an answer to all those who feel he doesn't really deal with the defensive side of the ball or that he doesn't have a system or really care about the defensive side of the ball. So it may have been wrongly assumed that you had a negative position regarding MDA.

That said, I have heard him talk briefly about what he expects on D many times. He's just never gone on and on about it in detail. As I've said neither have many other coaches. Some coaches simply hire a defensive guru to handle that. As i mentioned Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers aren't the architects of their defensive systems. I think I have more respect for MDA cuz he pretty much created his own based on his offensive attack. Even Van Gundy basically got his from Riley. MDA has fashioned his own unique style of O and D.

He doesn't have to do anything. I'm not demanding it. I'm just curious what his philosophy would sound like coming out of his own mouth. Just curious.
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Allanfan20
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8/31/2009  11:24 PM
Curiosity killed the cat, not the Bip?

It would be nice to know what Mike's thoughts on defense are.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Marv
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8/31/2009  11:40 PM
jesus guys. all this carrying on. did no one pay attention when mike addressed his defensive philosophy with the press?

his exact words were, and I quote:

"DEFENSE? WE DON'T NEED NO STEENKIN' DEFENSE!!!"
Bippity10
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9/1/2009  8:45 AM
Posted by Marv:

jesus guys. all this carrying on. did no one pay attention when mike addressed his defensive philosophy with the press?

his exact words were, and I quote:

"DEFENSE? WE DON'T NEED NO STEENKIN' DEFENSE!!!"

Until he actually talks about it or wins a title, the majority of fans will feel that this is the way he thinks. Communication is king
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BasketballJones
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9/1/2009  11:38 AM
Bip & nixluva,

Thanks for trying to have an interesting disagreement, but it didn't work for me. Please try to be less civil next time.
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nyk4ever
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9/1/2009  11:45 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Bip & nixluva,

Thanks for trying to have an interesting disagreement, but it didn't work for me. Please try to be less civil next time.

LOL! I was thinking the same thing.
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nixluva
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9/1/2009  11:45 AM
Posted by BasketballJones:

Bip & nixluva,

Thanks for trying to have an interesting disagreement, but it didn't work for me. Please try to be less civil next time.

I'm afraid things will never be the way they once were. We just don't have the same passion in the relationship... The fire is gone:(

nah seriously neither of us is looking to argue like that anymore. We have more in common than we differ in our current stance on the team.
Bippity10
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9/1/2009  1:45 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Bip & nixluva,

Thanks for trying to have an interesting disagreement, but it didn't work for me. Please try to be less civil next time.

I'm afraid things will never be the way they once were. We just don't have the same passion in the relationship... The fire is gone:(

nah seriously neither of us is looking to argue like that anymore. We have more in common than we differ in our current stance on the team.

go f yourself!!!!!!!!

Ahhhh the good old days
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Allanfan20
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9/1/2009  2:02 PM
Bip, what are you talking about the good old days. I still tell you to f' yourself.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Mike D'Antoni and Defense

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