Posted by fishmike:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Why did the Pistons offer a full MLE to Chauncey Billups when no one else would?--that kind of answers your question And if the player is producing at a 9mm $ level in year 2 and hes locked up for 4 more years??????? At worst your going to get contract level production sans injury at worst.

Billups and Sessions are nothing alike. Billups was the #3 pick in the draft. Sessions was regarded as 2nd round talent. Billups had problems staying healthy early, then put together two good years in Minn and established himself as one of the better defenders at PG in the league.

Sessions is a 2nd round talent that had a solid half season on a very bad team. There is a reason teams arent lining up to give him 4 and 5 year contracts.

Hey Briggs.. how much better is Sessions than Marcus Williams?

Im not calling him Chauncey Billups--what I tried to equate was that one team--Detroit saw the value in Billups and was willing to give him a contract that no one else would--probably bidding against themselves. In the end Detroit got a player who's production was well above compensation value. I can see the same possible parallel here. At worst we get fair value for the contract--at best we get a player who far exceeds compensation. That is why they havent signed with us yet.

I think a 5 year 22.5/24.5$ contract is fair with an opt out after 3--it's a similar deal to what G Wallace got[again only team to offer was Charlotte] At the end of the day--he insures that he has 23-24mm locked up and the option to make more in 3 years if he can play above the compensation value. I don't see any over paying here--I see a manageable contract with good upside to it.

Were not handing a part time player 38mm--we feel he will start and thrive--so we should look to try and find a nice middle ground. You want the player happy--I don't think 500k per year over 5 yrs 2.5mm or so is going to effect anything in anyway. But it is an act of appeasement--the willingness to say we really like you --will come up 2.5mm on the whole deal and give you an option out of the contract after 3 years.


The downside is there arent many PGs on the market in the next two years and we likely will have to renounce Duhon. It takes two to tangle to make a deal--I think this is a scenario where they come down some we ggo up some and we have the player. I cant imagine the deal is that far off.
So lets work to get it done. Dolan should be happy--payroll is going to be well cut back from previous years and I think Sessions will help the team get into the playoffs. Its worth it to meet this guy in the middle IMHO.

One last point--other teams right now are reluctant to spend for a variety of reasons--I think this is a real nice opportunity to get a 6-3 200 pound PG who has proven what he can do at the NBA level and did so on a conservative team without its stars.

Posted by fishmike:

I am under the impression that DW sees value in him, perhaps just not as much as Session's agent does. I think Session has to show more than a few good months on a 30 win team to merit a long term deal and I think thats where we are. I also think DW and the Knicks have no margin for error. You yourself have given your roll out the red carpet to do anything to get a star in here next year. Well, imagine if you cant offer what other teams can because you added Ramon Sessions the year before. Ouch...

Posted by BRIGGS:

I see no big deal offering 5 years with an opt out after 3---if we have an offer of 4mm and they are looking for 5.2 or whatever the MLE is--I have to imagine that there is a middle ground--even if we up our offer 500k per year--just to appease the player a bit and get the deal done. We spent 3mm $ on just acquiring pick 30--can we spend 1.5 or 2mm more over 3 years to get this frikin deal done?
I would have to think any offer that comes up off of 4mm would be an appeasement both to the agent--who probably has him sold on 5+ and the player. 5 years 22.5m player option after 3--that guarantees him financial security for the rest of his life and the option to up the deal in 3 years

Gerald Wallace did a similar deal and it worked out for him. 500k is NOT going to have ANY effect on whether or not Lebron is coming--for the life of me the guys in the front office can work that out easily. Lets see if we can get a done deal before Sept--get the kid to NY and settled down before training camp. Moving to NY isnt the easiest thing--it's a process and we want him to get in here and learn what is going on--meet the guys get things going asap. If he is settled on the full MLE and 38mm$ than say were not doing it and move on. Either find an appeasement with the player--find a reasonable middle ground or move on. He could say F it Ill take my chances next year when 16 teams have $$$$--I think that it's too close not to find a middle ground.

Posted by djsunyc:

you will not have the MLE or LLE but you can sign an unlimited # of players for league minimum regardless of cap...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-25-2009 2:05 PM]

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by fishmike:

I am under the impression that DW sees value in him, perhaps just not as much as Session's agent does. I think Session has to show more than a few good months on a 30 win team to merit a long term deal and I think thats where we are. I also think DW and the Knicks have no margin for error. You yourself have given your roll out the red carpet to do anything to get a star in here next year. Well, imagine if you cant offer what other teams can because you added Ramon Sessions the year before. Ouch...

That makes no sense because we will have a full max slot under any circumstance whether we sign Ramon for 4mm or 4.5mm. I don't consider a 5 year 22.5mm contract some kind of lethal cap-breaking long term contract. And on the fair side of negotiations--we can offer an opt out after 3. Sessions has played nearly 100 NBA games and in that time has put up highs of 44 points 24 assists and 10 rebounds. He has put up a triple double and had a few more games close to a triple double--that is a LOT of bonafide for a young player. And remember he did that missing Redd and Bogut most of the year. This is a great opportunity to get a solid 6-3 athletic pass first PG at a very young age for what I think would be a reasonable price--I havent heard your alternative

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by fishmike:

I am under the impression that DW sees value in him, perhaps just not as much as Session's agent does. I think Session has to show more than a few good months on a 30 win team to merit a long term deal and I think thats where we are. I also think DW and the Knicks have no margin for error. You yourself have given your roll out the red carpet to do anything to get a star in here next year. Well, imagine if you cant offer what other teams can because you added Ramon Sessions the year before. Ouch...

That makes no sense because we will have a full max slot under any circumstance whether we sign Ramon for 4mm or 4.5mm. I don't consider a 5 year 22.5mm contract some kind of lethal cap-breaking long term contract. And on the fair side of negotiations--we can offer an opt out after 3. Sessions has played nearly 100 NBA games and in that time has put up highs of 44 points 24 assists and 10 rebounds. He has put up a triple double and had a few more games close to a triple double--that is a LOT of bonafide for a young player. And remember he did that missing Redd and Bogut most of the year. This is a great opportunity to get a solid 6-3 athletic pass first PG at a very young age for what I think would be a reasonable price--I havent heard your alternative

actually I have posted my alternatives about a 1000 times.

$4mm is a lot of money. We have a whole roster to fill out if we are using that cap space.

Nate had triple double type performances. Nate's won games late. Nate's scored 50 points. Duhon averaged 12/8 most of the year. Why are we so desperate to replace these guys with another guy who is very unproven with a very small sampling?

Any why didnt you answer the Marcus Williams question? Why sign Sessions for $4mm when our cap # is critical instead of adding a guy like Marcus for $400k if we are so thin at PG? Didnt you say he's highly talented? More or less so than Sessions?

I finally figured out who Sessions reminds me off... Jeff McInnis.

I would've went after Williams myself. It was a mistake for them not to show any interest. Whatever.. Opportunity missed. And they'll wind up missing out on Mike Taylor too, another no-brainer based on what we currently need and what's available. Watch, we won't get Sessions, and then pass up on Nic Wise in the 2nd round next year as well. They just miss the boat on so many of these no-risk/high reward opportunities with available young players. Whoever is in charge of keeping an eye on stuff like this (I imagine their head of scouting) should be fired. I'd clean house - the lot of 'em. The whole scouting department. Outta here. Just too many opportunities missed and going unexplored. Get people in there that have the utmost enthusiasm & a good working knowledge of the college game and of all the available young players currently out there both here and abroad. We're always asleep at the wheel when it comes to this important element. Whoever's in charge of this aspect for the LA Lakers, OK, they can deal with someone doing a poor job. We can't. For a rebuilding club, this department should be right up there as far as being your bread & butter..

Another thing, when you think about it, it looks like Darko's absolutely a one and done guy after this upcoming year if we bring Sessions here. Either he fails to impress and is let go or even if he plays well and plays himself into a nice new contract, we won't be able to give him what he wants and deserves however reasonable it may be. If he does manage to play well, that'll be a shame and we'll be right back to where we were - with no center.

[Edited by - finestrg on 08-25-2009 3:13 PM]

I hear what you are saying--if guys like darko Lee harrington duhon all play to a top level and we do very very well--then I think we may have to rethink some things---I think right now--lets get Sessions--see if we can be opportunistic to help improve the team finish off what the deal is with Lee and nate and get things together
2010 aside go get me Sessions and lets try to win games now for goodness sakes. I dont want to over do this 2010 thing to death lets try 2009 first. 2010 will get here--I hope

Posted by CrushAlot:

In that scenario would Lee have to have signed the one year qualifying offer to not count against the cap in 2010?