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sebstar
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8/31/2009  4:53 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:

nas - grade: A

strength: unrivaled style of presentation, brilliantly clever in his word play, put out maybe the best rap album of all time in illmatic, one of the best story tellers ever (see Rewind). his rhymes are just incredible, especially early on. when was the last time you sat down, listened to an album from start to end, and were able to honestly say that you loved every song on it? that's what he did in his first effort.

weakness: seems stubborn, especially when considering how he evolved-- his gritty portrails of his experience were sometimes hauntingly real in illmatic, but it was always countered by some inherent optimism in his voice and his more thought provoking rhymes. sadly, this transformed itself into a bitter old nas, clinging to half-baked pseudo-intellectualism and shock-jock tactics to remain relevant. in short, he stopped being original and instead let himself grow moldy in the cellars of hip hop.

edit:
had to change it to an a from a b+ because reading jazz74's reviews, I think he deserves an a within that framework, kinda; he is above big, for sure, but jay has him beat on the development part.

Eh, I think you were being a little harsh on the weeknesses part. He's not in the cellar of hip hop at all. His lyricism, especially for a fairly mainstream artist has been unrivaled since his debut.

I'd give him an A-....his lyrics are still crack rocks but save Illmatic, It was Written, and Stillmatic his ear for beats are Van Gogh like...Hip Hop is Dead was more gimmick than thought-provoking. Again, only thing bad about Nas is that he picks wack ass beats and tries to be more universal and betray his NY roots. Primo should be on every one of his records, no excuses.



[Edited by - sebstar on 08-31-2009 4:55 PM]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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sebstar
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8/31/2009  5:05 PM
Mos Def: A-

Pros: An MC's, MC for real. Very profound wordplay without sacrificing accessibility as he is easily digestible for even the most superficial cat. Black on Both sides is one of the greatest records of any genre and had Mos on the road to becoming the greatest MC of all time.

Cons: Lost interest in rap quickly and spent this part of the decade concentrating on acting and making rock records. Really a shame, Mos could have had the crown.

Talib Kwali: B

Pros: Extremely thought provoking and over time developed his song making abilities. Initially he started as a rapid-tongued, multi syllabic east coast underground head but developed a calmer and more professional sounding approach. His albums are great.

Cons: As referenced, Talib has been guilty of trying to shoehorn as many big words and encyclopedia knowledge without regard towards cadences and being listenable. More damming though, is his voice which is annoyingly nasal.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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8/31/2009  5:16 PM
50 Cent: B -

Pros: Created a name for himself the hard way by plying his trade in the underground scene for many, many years while still hustling which led to him being shot nine times. Found a formula that worked, and that was serving as hip hop's premier antagonist and parlaying his brush with death. He first made waves on the record "how to rob" which targed, by name, each big name rapper he was going to rob and catalogued just how he was going to do it by playing off their styles and reputations. He is probably the best hook/chorus man ever and it was that ability that turned him into a powerhouse that transcended rap.

Cons: Never got over his penchant for drama as he turned hip hop beefs into WWE style fakery and industry positioning. Would and still will diss anybody for buzz. Piggy bank was hilarious in that he dissed about 50 different rappers which made it obvious that it was less about settling a score on the mic and more about attention-seeking. He's still a quality rapper and hasn't strayed far from his lane. He's not as bad as his critics make him out and he's got plenty.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
kam77
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8/31/2009  5:42 PM
this is good stuff. i like it when crucial tracks are listed. i'm gonna go on itunes and grab some of these tracks you guys are mentioning.

what about tupac. all i've heard is "all eyez on me".
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
sebstar
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8/31/2009  5:44 PM
Rakim: A

Pros: I know I gave dual credit earlier to both KRS and Rakim in regards to revolutionizing rap ( and KRS does deserve some credit) but Rakim is THE most influential rapper of all time. Rakim entering the rap game in 1986 was like Micheal Jordan playing basketball in the 1950's or some fool having HDTV and a lap top in his living room in the early-20th century --- he was that far advanced. His introduction to rap killed all MC's before him dead on sight except for LL Cool J. There was no more Hotel-Motel-Holiday-Inn type stuff anymore; no more its just block party stuff anymore. Authoritative voice, with brilliant lyricism and strong production, Rakim turned rap from disco's cousin to an artform with merit. Sure, RunDmc showed that there was commercial viabilty in rap, but Rakim brought a captivating seriousness to rap.

Cons: Yeah, he was never able to become a commerical force. Yeah, he's sounded old since about 1994 and yeah he can be somewhat dull and monotone at times but where would hip hop be without this cat? He birthed so many styles, as hip hops family tree post-86, all have roots connected to his debut.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
BigSm00th
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8/31/2009  5:45 PM
sebstar, where you got kanye?
#Knickstaps
kam77
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8/31/2009  5:50 PM
How does Guru rank?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
sebstar
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8/31/2009  6:03 PM
Posted by kam77:

this is good stuff. i like it when crucial tracks are listed. i'm gonna go on itunes and grab some of these tracks you guys are mentioning.

what about tupac. all i've heard is "all eyez on me".

All Eyez On Me is his magnum opus so you're in the right spot there. I'd peep some of his Makaveli stuff although by then he was completely self destructive and a loose cannon. Was Suge's mouthpiece and puppet. Some of his earlier stuff is good like "trapped" "when my homiez call" and "I get around" which drive home the versatility and potential he possessed from an early age.

I'd give Pac a B+ . He was hip hop's first real big star, the black James Dean, which had a lot to do with his acting ability, quality of music, and his penchant for creating headlines and being the talk of the town. Hoes absolutely loved Pac which fueled a lot of his appeal. Extremely thoughful but his rhyme style was very basic and non-descript as his lack of wordplay and verbal dexterity made him pale in comparison to the stronger MC's of the era. Produced very powerful music.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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8/31/2009  6:18 PM
Posted by BigSm00th:

sebstar, where you got kanye?

Kanye: A

Pros: There have been whispers that a lot of Kanye's stuff is ghostwritten as he has surrounded himself with a team of strong MC's (Consequence, Rhymefest, Common..ext) but Kanye started out initially as a rapper. He first made waves appearing on a record by a Chicago Underground MC named Grav (youtube it) and he also battled Common on a Chicago radio show in the mid-90s so the boy can obviously rap. Kanye is no Dr. Dre where every line he's spit has been written by somebody else. I'm sure Kanye has had a few lines thrown his way, but his initial lyrical ability gives him the benefit of the doubt.

Kanye has been inarguably the greatest creative force in the latter half of this decade; from his work on his own records to his freelance production work. One of the few artists that has effectively bridged the gap from the 80s and 90's to the present day style without completely submerging himself in the new pop-rap style. His lyrics are funny, deep, creative and his production is second-to-none as he is somehow able to stay relevant and keep reinventing himself while staying ahead of the curve and not sacrificing too much of his artistic integrity.

Cons: First off, Heartbreak was god awful but most give him a pass because his moms died. Kanye's an easy target because he rejects homophobia and embraces a lot of homosexual elements in his life and music. Biggest detraction is his diva like behavior and his interviews which are always a decent into nauseating self-absorption.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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8/31/2009  6:34 PM
Posted by kam77:

How does Guru rank?

D -

Pros: Guru killed "You Know My Steez" a brilliant, brilliant beat with a surprising performance from Guru. One of the rare occasions where his worldly knowledge overcame his absolute lack of rapping ability.

Cons: "Lemonade Was a Popular Drink and It Still is..." Hands down the worst bar ever written by anybody outside of the brainless new age cats that are prevalent today and was produced at at time when lyrics actually mattered. That line feeds into the broader point as Guru's consistently awful lyrics were completely masked by DJ Premier's unparalleled beat making skills.

Guru is famously monotone --- you dont know whether he is happy, sad, angry, melancholy, surprised...ext. You combine that with his boring ass lyrics and that is a bad recipe. Look, Guru is a smart, enlightened brotha but he is in no way shape or form a rapper. Guru just happened to hitch his wagon to the greatest hip hop producer of all time. Since Gangstarr's breakup Guru has virtually disappeared and you can catch him trying to autotune his way back to relevance.

Just youtube DJ premier and go from there Kam. Premier is the closest living thing to Jesus on this earth.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
kam77
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8/31/2009  6:52 PM
Premier or Pete Rock -- Who is Jesusier?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
sebstar
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8/31/2009  7:12 PM
Posted by kam77:

Premier or Pete Rock -- Who is Jesusier?

Preem, hands down. Rock is dope and was the better producer in the early to mid 90s, but once Preem developed his boom-bap sound it was lights out.

Preem kept Guru's sorry ass afloat for how many years? Gangstar and all of those great albums is due to Primo. Has produced complete records for average MC's like Group Home, Jeru the Damaja, O.C and made them sound like legends in the making. He made Fred Durst actually sound competant on that Method Man/Durst collab last decade. Turned Afu-Ra into a budding star then once they split Ra was gone.

Christina Aguliera heard about him and went to Premier in 2006 and he was the executive producer of her album. 'Aint no other man' --- thats Premier. Everywhere in between he has been the go-to-guy for that raw, banging hip hop sound. The singles he produces are almost always the highlights of every record --- From Jay Z, to Nas, to CNN, Royce 5'9, Snoop, AZ....I could go on and on.

Again, Pete Rock is a first ballot hall of famer. But we're talking about the difference between Barkley and Jordan right now. Btw, check out Pete Rock's latest album NY finest. A burner.

[Edited by - sebstar on 08-31-2009 7:19 PM]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
SupremeCommander
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8/31/2009  7:34 PM
I was always curious how the pure hip hop heads grade G. Love (& the Special Sauce)

And while we're at it, please grade Pharrell (of N.E.R.D. if you prefer)

Oh and how about Aesop Rock

(that style of music played big in the sk8 scene when I wasn't scared of breaking my arm)

[Edited by - supremecommander on 08-31-2009 7:56 PM]


[Edited by - supremecommander on 08-31-2009 8:10 PM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
SupremeCommander
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8/31/2009  7:47 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by BigSm00th:

sebstar, where you got kanye?

Kanye: A

Pros: There have been whispers that a lot of Kanye's stuff is ghostwritten as he has surrounded himself with a team of strong MC's (Consequence, Rhymefest, Common..ext) but Kanye started out initially as a rapper. He first made waves appearing on a record by a Chicago Underground MC named Grav (youtube it) and he also battled Common on a Chicago radio show in the mid-90s so the boy can obviously rap. Kanye is no Dr. Dre where every line he's spit has been written by somebody else. I'm sure Kanye has had a few lines thrown his way, but his initial lyrical ability gives him the benefit of the doubt.

Kanye has been inarguably the greatest creative force in the latter half of this decade; from his work on his own records to his freelance production work. One of the few artists that has effectively bridged the gap from the 80s and 90's to the present day style without completely submerging himself in the new pop-rap style. His lyrics are funny, deep, creative and his production is second-to-none as he is somehow able to stay relevant and keep reinventing himself while staying ahead of the curve and not sacrificing too much of his artistic integrity.

Cons: First off, Heartbreak was god awful but most give him a pass because his moms died. Kanye's an easy target because he rejects homophobia and embraces a lot of homosexual elements in his life and music. Biggest detraction is his diva like behavior and his interviews which are always a decent into nauseating self-absorption.

His production is awesome and some of his songs like Flashing Lights are insanely awesome... but most of his current stuff just pisses me off. I get angry when I hear about his ****ing ego. His personality just straight up detracts from his music. The South Park episode where they make fun of him sums up my contempt for the man nicely and why I find it impossible to fully enjoy his talents.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 08-31-2009 7:48 PM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
jazz74
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9/1/2009  12:45 AM
seb, you definately know your stuff and i agree with most of your assessment. however, i think kanye is a little high. he is a B rapper because like you said he may have been ghostwritten. he is more culturally aware and his content is more diversified than any other rapper today. but lyrical wise he is good but not great. his production is far better and is where he should be graded an A+. i agree with guru but he is not a D rapper. that is something you give to nice and smooth or tone loc. he is better than them. he works better with premier only and they create great music but he deserves a C. ice cube's earlier stuff was groundbreaking and innovative like amerikkkas most wanted and death certificate is my favorite album of all time. he was great with storytelling and had a variety of rap styles. he was great but ren was a better and underrated rapper imo. i definately agree with mos and he could have been one of the best rappers of all time if he took it seriously and stop experimenting. ghostface is good and he deserves a B. however, he does say things so out of context and into left field that its mind boggling. as far as him being the best out of wu, i think rae and the underrated inspectah deck are better lyrically than him but he knows how to stay relevant after all of these years. he did his thing though in the new song, "house of flying daggers" though.
BigSm00th
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9/1/2009  3:16 AM


good clip of Jay-Z on Bill Maher. Parts 2, 3, and 4 you can follow links to after it plays. I have a feeling it gets taken down, so I'm not going to post all 4 parts. Regardless, hov's a real smart dude. handles himself real well obviously. king of the game right now.

kanye is an odd dude. sat near him at a lakers game and walked past him a few times. when i saw him, he was dropping game on an absolute dime. in fact, i saw the girl first and then saw who she was talking to, and it turned out to be kanye.
#Knickstaps
sebstar
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9/1/2009  3:51 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

I was always curious how the pure hip hop heads grade G. Love (& the Special Sauce)

And while we're at it, please grade Pharrell (of N.E.R.D. if you prefer)

Oh and how about Aesop Rock

(that style of music played big in the sk8 scene when I wasn't scared of breaking my arm)

Not really a fan of G Love and the special sauce. They tried to be a hybrid band and they did neither particularly well. Just my opinion tho. I remember I hated that joint my girl's got sauce.

Wouldn't really grade Pharell because he isn't much of a rapper. His rapping is all about self-aggrandizement and getting his face on camera. He's in the same league as Puffy; he talks to a beat more than he raps to a beat. His beats have really fallen off since the Neptunes kinda split. Chad seemed to be the creative center of that production team.

Aesop Rock. To be honest I'm not that familiar with his work. I've heard a lot about him, and a few of my boys are fans, but some of the music I have heard from him didn't motivate me to press deeper into his catalog. Rock is like the stereotypical underground white rapper. Weird beats, abstract lyrics, an overall an inaccessible style. I cant really feel his music and it doesnt speak to me.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
sebstar
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9/1/2009  4:09 PM
Posted by jazz74:

seb, you definately know your stuff and i agree with most of your assessment. however, i think kanye is a little high. he is a B rapper because like you said he may have been ghostwritten. he is more culturally aware and his content is more diversified than any other rapper today. but lyrical wise he is good but not great. his production is far better and is where he should be graded an A+. i agree with guru but he is not a D rapper. that is something you give to nice and smooth or tone loc. he is better than them. he works better with premier only and they create great music but he deserves a C. ice cube's earlier stuff was groundbreaking and innovative like amerikkkas most wanted and death certificate is my favorite album of all time. he was great with storytelling and had a variety of rap styles. he was great but ren was a better and underrated rapper imo. i definately agree with mos and he could have been one of the best rappers of all time if he took it seriously and stop experimenting. ghostface is good and he deserves a B. however, he does say things so out of context and into left field that its mind boggling. as far as him being the best out of wu, i think rae and the underrated inspectah deck are better lyrically than him but he knows how to stay relevant after all of these years. he did his thing though in the new song, "house of flying daggers" though.

* gives Jazz a dap and a handshake* Much respect.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kanye. "Through The Wire" " All falls Down", "Jesus Walks" and "Diamonds...Sierra Leone" are not only some of the more profound hip hop singles of this decade, but probably some of the deeper and best songs in the genre's history. That's made even more amazing by the fact that the songs blew up and were major hits. Making hits in this decade has been a minefield.

Both his solo albums knock with the first one being pretty much a classic. He steals the show in virtually every guest appearance. And even though this is about rap, his production is almost always tailored to the lyrics which makes him even more impressive. I dont know, homeboy has got a pretty impressive resume. He acts like a clown, but I dont really care about all that.

I probably was too hard on Guru and Cube, but both of those cats have really pissed me off over the years.

BTW, Only Build For Cuban Links 2 is going to be the cooked crack! The songs that have leaked so far have been flames!
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
jazz74
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9/1/2009  9:03 PM
Posted by sebstar:
Posted by jazz74:

seb, you definately know your stuff and i agree with most of your assessment. however, i think kanye is a little high. he is a B rapper because like you said he may have been ghostwritten. he is more culturally aware and his content is more diversified than any other rapper today. but lyrical wise he is good but not great. his production is far better and is where he should be graded an A+. i agree with guru but he is not a D rapper. that is something you give to nice and smooth or tone loc. he is better than them. he works better with premier only and they create great music but he deserves a C. ice cube's earlier stuff was groundbreaking and innovative like amerikkkas most wanted and death certificate is my favorite album of all time. he was great with storytelling and had a variety of rap styles. he was great but ren was a better and underrated rapper imo. i definately agree with mos and he could have been one of the best rappers of all time if he took it seriously and stop experimenting. ghostface is good and he deserves a B. however, he does say things so out of context and into left field that its mind boggling. as far as him being the best out of wu, i think rae and the underrated inspectah deck are better lyrically than him but he knows how to stay relevant after all of these years. he did his thing though in the new song, "house of flying daggers" though.

* gives Jazz a dap and a handshake* Much respect.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Kanye. "Through The Wire" " All falls Down", "Jesus Walks" and "Diamonds...Sierra Leone" are not only some of the more profound hip hop singles of this decade, but probably some of the deeper and best songs in the genre's history. That's made even more amazing by the fact that the songs blew up and were major hits. Making hits in this decade has been a minefield.

Both his solo albums knock with the first one being pretty much a classic. He steals the show in virtually every guest appearance. And even though this is about rap, his production is almost always tailored to the lyrics which makes him even more impressive. I dont know, homeboy has got a pretty impressive resume. He acts like a clown, but I dont really care about all that.

I probably was too hard on Guru and Cube, but both of those cats have really pissed me off over the years.

BTW, Only Build For Cuban Links 2 is going to be the cooked crack! The songs that have leaked so far have been flames!

much respect due to you also. you are right about kanye expanding his content and his first two albums were classics. i still listen to them. he is very much the most relevant rapper out there but his last two albums were straight doo doo. cube can piss people off with his fickle attitude but i swear tha "no vaseline" was hands down the best dis record ever because he did not waste a bar ripping n.w.a. up. so i have to give him a higher grade. yeah, only built for cuban links II is out next week and that will be in my ipod that morning. i like your grading, seb. keep it up.
djsunyc
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9/1/2009  9:17 PM


A+++++
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