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djsunyc
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8/12/2009  3:45 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BasketballJones:

Unfortunately, with GM's, you sort of have to give them 2-3 years to see if their plans will pan out. Especially in the types of situations that Layden, Thomas and now Walsh have been in.

We do have posters who have strong opinions about the GM's moves. For example, I think BRIGGs wanted different draft picks. It's fair game to criticize the GM based on those opinions IMO. I think we also have posters who basically don't believe the 2010 plan can work, so they're legitimately critical as well. In that case, you have to try to counter their arguments if you're a strong Walsh supporter, and at least with regard to draft picks, we really don't have much to go on.

DJ hit it on the head. It's all about 2010. If these guys don't develop and we don't get a free agent we are scareeeeeeewd. Walsh is a bumb. If these guys turn out to be players and/or we do get a big free-agent then Walsh is a genius. Just not sure about the absolutes at this point.

Criticism of Walsh's moves is par for the course. I just don't understand the absolutes 1 year into the regime. I thought I could get a true hatter to address the subject, but no one bit. Typical.

the hatters are working out for walsh right now...
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BasketballJones
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8/12/2009  3:46 PM
LOL. Who cares what Bip wants the thread to be about?
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K22
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8/12/2009  3:51 PM
Let's play Knick make believe....

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
jimimou
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8/12/2009  3:51 PM
like you, walsh is playing the wait and see game as well. he dumped a bunch of bad contracts but his picks and offseason deal potentials have not been that impressive - no real studs off the bat - they are all tbd (gallo, hill and douglas) and he certainly hasnt won any fans with his courting of jwill, kidd, grant hill and most recently troy hudson.

the only way his plan succeeds is if he gets lebron. if he does not, he has failed. they only thing i can criticize about him is that it appears that there is only one plan - the lebron plan. so he's putting all his eggs in one basket. if he doesnt get lebron, i dont think this town will ever forgive him.
TMS
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8/12/2009  3:51 PM
Posted by K22:
Let's play Knick make believe....


LOL!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
JohnWallace44
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8/12/2009  3:56 PM
If you're fair about it he's signed a good coach, drafted a player who had a known injury and who has been outplayed by several of the guys drafted below him, missed on the Nate/Jeffries deal, admitted to regretting the Hughes deal, and the 09 draft... we'll see.

That's pretty mixed, no matter how you slice it.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
NYKBocker
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8/12/2009  4:00 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Well. I also think The Godfather has done a fabulous job. The Gallo pick was the right pick. The 6th pick is the right spot for a high risk high reward player. Hill was ranked in the top 3 in a lot of mocks and supposedly a lot of team war rooms.

Okay from the other direction. How do you know Gallo was the right pick? What if Hill was a bust? Say they both stink, does that change your opinion in the other direction? If they stink does it mean he has done a bad job?

There are no guarantees in drafting. A lot of it is pure luck. Donnie selected the players that his scouting department recommended. He made the correct selections at the time. You can never really judge a GM by their drafting prowess. You judge them on how they they maneuver their team and if they gave them the best chance for a winning season.
Bippity10
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8/12/2009  4:03 PM
Posted by jimimou:


the only way his plan succeeds is if he gets lebron. if he does not, he has failed. they only thing i can criticize about him is that it appears that there is only one plan - the lebron plan. so he's putting all his eggs in one basket. if he doesnt get lebron, i dont think this town will ever forgive him.

First of all allow me to preface my remarks by addressing another person in this thread. Basketballjones go f yourself!!

Okay back to the topic. Fair enough on your quote above. I do not beleive that Walsh is in the Lebron or bust mode. I think if he was, he would be jettisoning young players for vets that lebron may want to play with. I think he is clearing cap space for 2010. Clearing cap space is what we wanted our GM to do. Doing it in 2 years to me is unfathomable. Being in the game for Lebron is a dream that is worth it IMO. Now it's very likely no game changing free agents come here. So the question is, what is left if Lebron shoots us down. Is our future worse off with Gallo, Hill, Douglas, Chandler(possibly Lee and Nate) plus cap space and trade flexibility going forward? Or would we be better off with Gallo, Hill, Douglas, Chandler(possilby Lee and Nate), no cap space, no shot at a free agent because we filled that spot with Carlos Boozer or Ben Gordon or Hedo Turkoglu? Only you can decide.

Personally I'm okay with the young guys and cap space. That's what rebuilding teams are supposed to look like, so I would have a hard time understanding what I am supposed to be up in arms about if he doesn't sign here. Should I be upset because we passed up the chance to throw money at Ramon Sessions? And like I said God forbid Gallo and/or Hill turn out to be players. the situation is 103% different.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-12-2009 4:05 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-12-2009 4:13 PM]
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arkrud
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8/12/2009  4:28 PM
I am not counting on Galo and Hill to become studs. And I am not counting on LeBron to come. I am not counting on 2010 as make or break.
And I think Walsh and Mike are not counting on all things above also.
To win in any sport, in any game, in any life situation you had to select a winning system and stick with it.
Then sooner or later it will click and the things will work out fine.
I get tired of Knicks putting all on lucky bets. The only result of this kind of strategy - you will be out of the game. It's just the matter of time.

I think Knicks are back on track and it's just a matter of time and sticking to the system to get in the elite of NBA.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Bippity10
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8/12/2009  5:24 PM
Posted by arkrud:

I am not counting on Galo and Hill to become studs. And I am not counting on LeBron to come. I am not counting on 2010 as make or break.
And I think Walsh and Mike are not counting on all things above also.
To win in any sport, in any game, in any life situation you had to select a winning system and stick with it.
Then sooner or later it will click and the things will work out fine.
I get tired of Knicks putting all on lucky bets. The only result of this kind of strategy - you will be out of the game. It's just the matter of time.

I think Knicks are back on track and it's just a matter of time and sticking to the system to get in the elite of NBA.

I agree with you Send Closk man. Every year we seem to want to fire somebody and start over again. With that mentality it's put us in a position where luck is the only way to get better.
I just hope that people will like me
jimimou
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8/12/2009  5:42 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by jimimou:


the only way his plan succeeds is if he gets lebron. if he does not, he has failed. they only thing i can criticize about him is that it appears that there is only one plan - the lebron plan. so he's putting all his eggs in one basket. if he doesnt get lebron, i dont think this town will ever forgive him.

First of all allow me to preface my remarks by addressing another person in this thread. Basketballjones go f yourself!!

Okay back to the topic. Fair enough on your quote above. I do not beleive that Walsh is in the Lebron or bust mode. I think if he was, he would be jettisoning young players for vets that lebron may want to play with. I think he is clearing cap space for 2010. Clearing cap space is what we wanted our GM to do. Doing it in 2 years to me is unfathomable. Being in the game for Lebron is a dream that is worth it IMO. Now it's very likely no game changing free agents come here. So the question is, what is left if Lebron shoots us down. Is our future worse off with Gallo, Hill, Douglas, Chandler(possibly Lee and Nate) plus cap space and trade flexibility going forward? Or would we be better off with Gallo, Hill, Douglas, Chandler(possilby Lee and Nate), no cap space, no shot at a free agent because we filled that spot with Carlos Boozer or Ben Gordon or Hedo Turkoglu? Only you can decide.

Personally I'm okay with the young guys and cap space. That's what rebuilding teams are supposed to look like, so I would have a hard time understanding what I am supposed to be up in arms about if he doesn't sign here. Should I be upset because we passed up the chance to throw money at Ramon Sessions? And like I said God forbid Gallo and/or Hill turn out to be players. the situation is 103% different.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-12-2009 4:05 PM]

[Edited by - bippity10 on 08-12-2009 4:13 PM]

i dont believe the knicks are better off with the current cast of characters b/c basketball is a business as well as a sport. and, i dont think these guys will sell tickets nor win many games. so, if no lebron in 2010, then yes, it makes sense to build the team slowly and save some cap space. that's being fiscally responsible and i'm ok with that also. then, see what the younger players have to offer (2-3 yr window to prove themselves is fair) and use free agency to get a group of veteran players that can lead the younger guys. only problem with the slow approach is the fanbase in ny may not go along with another 3-5yr period of losing.

[Edited by - jimimou on 08-12-2009 5:48 PM]
martin
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8/12/2009  5:59 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

If you're fair about it he's signed a good coach, drafted a player who had a known injury and who has been outplayed by several of the guys drafted below him, missed on the Nate/Jeffries deal, admitted to regretting the Hughes deal, and the 09 draft... we'll see.

That's pretty mixed, no matter how you slice it.

Could you show me someone outside of Kiki who has said Gallo had a known injury? How about some articles on it or something? Cause I haven't seen any. To my knowledge he was hurt last summer league.

And Gallo was injured all of last year, purportedly playing at around 60%, so I hope he was outplayed by several guys below him.

I think he did miss out and regrets the Nate/Jefferies deal. The Hughes deal? So what, you want Roberson, TT, Big Game back? It certainly was a gamble and the Knicks did need s SG. I do think TT was missed.

If you really want to be fair about it, you also mention moving Balkman, Zbo, Crawford, and minimizing Marbury.
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BasketballJones
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8/12/2009  6:22 PM
One problem I have with the 2010 plan: What about 2009? We don't have our pick this year, so there's no point in tanking. How about doing something to excite the fans' interest and winning some more games? Can we contemplate doing something more interesting than bringing White Chocolate out of retirement?
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nixluva
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8/12/2009  6:44 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

One problem I have with the 2010 plan: What about 2009? We don't have our pick this year, so there's no point in tanking. How about doing something to excite the fans' interest and winning some more games? Can we contemplate doing something more interesting than bringing White Chocolate out of retirement?

I actually feel better about this season than I did last year. It's still early but if both Gallo and Curry are in camp and able to go hard along with Darko, this is gonna be a tough team to deal with. We had almost zero size inside last yr and still the team was competitive when Duhon was healthy. It also looks like we'll be deeper at PG too. You can assume we'll add depth at SG, likely Almond or Crawford.

It's just looks to me like a better team. Walsh may be slow but he's not stupid and hasn't made any damaging moves.
knicks1248
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8/12/2009  6:49 PM

Posted by Bippity10:

I don't want people who think he has done a good job, because of course if gallo and Hill do well you guys will think Walsh has done a great job. I want the hatters.

No one really hates walsh, he has a giant question mark behind his name. Even if the draft pans out, he will still get an incomplete grade.

Should we give IT kudos for his draft picks, and sht on him for his cap killing contracts.


The problem is more than 3 qrtrs of the league is over paid, your going to have a hard time trying to build a team with cap friendly contracts.

How many teams this off season actually had cap space, just about every player in the league is either grossly over paid or slightly over paid. Its a fact.

My beef with walsh is that we maybe waiting on nothing.

I mean he drafted what appears to be a fragile player with a slight history of back problems. Let's make believe that didn't happen.
I can't do nothing but support walsh, but I don't want to say he's better then IT or laydan cause he's plans doesn't appear to be flawless
ES
loweyecue
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8/12/2009  7:08 PM
I am happy to give Walsh an 'A' so far. I dont believe that if we dont get Lebron/Wade in 2010 what he has done is wrong or bad. I think he has done the best he could while being extremely conservative and sticking to his plan. There are people here who have been railing on Walsh for not getting enough value for Lee, none of them can show any evidence that any such value was ever available except for some trade for Mayo which was shot down by Lee himself. I understand that all he CAN do is try to give us a shot at getting Lebron and its tsill a 50-50 chance that we dont get him. I'll take a 50% shot at Lebron than the cast of 33 win superstars all rolled into one any day of the week. So I am with Bip on this, I dont get the anxiety and stress level here. This is exactly what I thought it would be like. Who said patience was easy?
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knicks1248
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8/12/2009  7:21 PM
We really can't say what goes on behind close doors and we usually find out about trades that were pass over months later, and sometimes wonder why the(the sac trade) hell he didn't do it.

Giving him an A for an incomplete job seems near sighted.
ES
loweyecue
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8/12/2009  7:30 PM
I am giving him an A based on what I know instead of failing him based on unsupported BS rumors. If that's nearsighted then so be it.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
DJMUSIC
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8/12/2009  8:29 PM
Hey I am a DWalsh supporter and was impressed on how he got the knicks
cap $$ under control when he first came here in charge.

However although I like the draft choices (Hill, Douglas) I am a little
disappointed Knicks cant do more in off season this summer. I am aware
we're playing our chips for 2010 FAs.

But I wont thrash DWalsh since he inherited a mess. I have confidence in DWalsh.
D'Antonio whom I like am beginning to suspect him, since we dont play no Defense.
Being in Phoenix hasnt shown him you have to start from inside out play. Sure
we dont have the players yet but Mike got to show he likes at least some players
whom ain't all offense but cant help Knicks on Defender side. Seems if Mike D dont
like you your dead or off the knicks.

We'll have patience and wait and see since Walsh is running things and I bet
he'll have inputs on players we need to get back to the top one day.

All in all Give Walsh a chance. We're giving coach Mike D a chance and we have to see
if coach is answer to rebuilding this team.
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nixluva
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8/12/2009  9:45 PM
Walsh has done pretty much eveything he was supposed to do. Get a proven coach... check! Create cap space... Check! Draft well... Check! Now I know some may disagree, but Gallo, Hill and Douglas are pretty solid prospects. He's played some mean poker with RFA's and seems to be getting stronger with each passing day. Do we hold some rumored deals that never happened against him?
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