After Joe's performance in the play offs this past season, no wonder he would be looking for an extension.

I take this as a positive - because it prevents Walsh from making the mistake of blowing our cap space on a second rate talent.

I bet thats going to be occurring right up to the trade dead line. We already have Dirk, Roy and now Joe. Walsh is baffling to say the least. This seems so much like the bulls during the post jordan era.They had all the cap room and could get a star to commit to any rebuilding project. Now the best they have been since is a round or 2 with no lagit leader and a bunch a decent role players. Sounds like that's were we headed.

I'm sorry I still haven't seen anything to justify any belief in walshs ability

Posted by knicks1248:

I'm sorry I still haven't seen anything to justify any belief in walshs ability

What were you looking for?

What have you missed?

Walsh came in, saw that Isiah and even Layden before him tried rebuilding on the fly. It failed.

Walsh knew the only way to succeed was to start over.

Everyone knew this would take 2 to 3 years to shed Isiah's mistakes.

We haven't even gotten to that point we are still in the process of purging the roster of Isiah's mistakes. If you think he acquired Hughes and Harrington to succeed with then you haven't been following that he acquired them to dump salary. When their time is up they are gone as well - a year earlier than the others that were here I might add.

This is called tearing down a flawed team.

Then when it's done you start building.

What have you missed?

Walsh's plan doesn't even begin until the 2010 offseason.

.....what would you have done? Kept ZBo, Marbury, Q, Crawford, Zach entact and used the MLE on another flawed player thinking he'd be the glue to make everything work? Trade Malik Rose and Marbury's 2009 expirings for... whom? Baron Davis? Maggette? Stephen Jackson? Would that have taken us places?


...

I tend to think not. I'm quite content with Walsh tearing down the mess and targeting 2010. Even if 2010 bombs in the top FA market I am content knowing Donnie would NOT make the mistakes of the past and at that time we would still have major flexibility to start building a new team.

In the meantime we've got some interesting kids we're looking to develop.

I don't see the uproar.

Every season is not playoffs or fire the GM. It's just not.

A competent GM asses the situation and makes a decision to either tinker with the current roster or rip it down. This one HAD to be ripped down. Isiah gave us a giant dump of a team. You don't sprinkle sugar on **** and expect it to smell good. Walsh knew this. He's cleaning up the mess before he tries to cook.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by knicks1248:

I bet thats going to be occurring right up to the trade dead line. We already have Dirk, Roy and now Joe. Walsh is baffling to say the least. This seems so much like the bulls during the post jordan era.They had all the cap room and could get a star to commit to any rebuilding project. Now the best they have been since is a round or 2 with no lagit leader and a bunch a decent role players. Sounds like that's were we headed.

Look at it this way: We are not committed to 2010 until Feb 2010 deadline passes.

Until then we're sitting pretty on 50M in expirings and some interesting youth. So if Bron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, JJ, Roy, etc all sign extensions this summer?

We still have incredible flexibility. We are NOT locked into the summer of 2010 until February 2010 comes and goes. Until then all doors are open.

What do you mean exactly by flexibility? If the chance came this year to get 'Melo, or Rip, do you think Walsh would move on it? No. He's going to wait until LeBron punks us.

Seems like we've got a one way ticket but we don't know where the train is going.

The flexibility to use 50M expirings and a handful of interesting youth in trades right into February 2010 if he chooses.
The flexibility to have massive cap space to use on whoever he wants July 2010 and a core of interesting youth returning the following year.

If that isn't the ultimate flexibility I don't know what is.

You guys are slamming the door on Donnie as if it's August 2010. How about we wait until August of 2010 first?

Or shall we put Isiah back in charge and let him work his magic with 50M expirings (he'd recycle them all), 0ur 2012 first rounder (gone, u betcha), and Chandler, Lee, Nate, Gallo, Hill, Douglas (all traded in packages)

So we can build what? A roster filled with every team's hated players?

I could just see it now...


Zach
Maggette
Jackson
Baron
Iverson


Impatient Knick fans muse of 60 win seasons and the title. Newspapers put us at the bottom of the EC in their predictions. We end up 14th with 27 wins. Fans demand Mike D gets fired, gets their wish. Isiah gives Marbury the MLE. Avery comes next. Goes 32 wins, 13th in the EC, gets fired. Isiah hires Mark Jackson and trades for Greg Oden and gives him the max saying THIS is the year he gets healthy. Knicks win 24 games, 14th in the EC, fans demand Mark Jackson gets fired. Isiah returns to the bench after trading for a 35 year old Arenas who hasn't played in five years, gives him another max contract. Knicks win 17 games, get the 1st pick, Isiah trades it.

Is this what you've missed?

Well, I haven't, and fortunately I won't have to witness that anymore.

So you're just going to have to sit back and wait it out.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by knicks1248:

I bet thats going to be occurring right up to the trade dead line. We already have Dirk, Roy and now Joe. Walsh is baffling to say the least. This seems so much like the bulls during the post jordan era.They had all the cap room and could get a star to commit to any rebuilding project. Now the best they have been since is a round or 2 with no lagit leader and a bunch a decent role players. Sounds like that's were we headed.

Look at it this way: We are not committed to 2010 until Feb 2010 deadline passes.

Until then we're sitting pretty on 50M in expirings and some interesting youth. So if Bron, Wade, Bosh, Amare, JJ, Roy, etc all sign extensions this summer?

We still have incredible flexibility. We are NOT locked into the summer of 2010 until February 2010 comes and goes. Until then all doors are open.

What do you mean exactly by flexibility? If the chance came this year to get 'Melo, or Rip, do you think Walsh would move on it?

Yeah. Walsh has said that he would do that.

Posted by subzero0:

Posted by JohnWallace44:

Roy is also working on an extension

Hmmm... So you mean to tell me Roy also will be unavailable? Interesting, interesting...

Who didn't see Portland locking him up? Aside from the Oden debacle they have a good thing going. No reason for Roy to be looking to bolt is there?

The other guys we know about...there is.

Yet, Joe Johnson again, is in a good situation in Atlanta, so it doesn't surprise me much either.

This is how things work. Just because we will have cap space in 2010 doesn't mean there will be any heavy hitters there for the taking. It also doesn't mean we were foolish to drop Isiah's disaster of a roster either. I think people put a little too much emphasis on 2010. It's just a good thing our cap savings line up with a coveted FA crop. Nothing more.

How do you trade Jeffries now without taking on salary?

There were clear ways to do it prior to the deadline with Nate, with Lee, with expirings.

Nate and Lee are difficult to trade now, and the 09 expirings are obviously gone.

It looks to me like you would have to trade a serious asset to get Jeffries off the team at this point. This is what I've been saying since February.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

How do you trade Jeffries now without taking on salary?

There were clear ways to do it prior to the deadline with Nate, with Lee, with expirings.

Nate and Lee are difficult to trade now, and the 09 expirings are obviously gone.

It looks to me like you would have to trade a serious asset to get Jeffries off the team at this point. This is what I've been saying since February.

not saying i disagree w/any of that cuz i've been right with you all along about the idea of trading Lee or Nate last year when we had the chance, but Donnie does still have the slim option of signing Lee or Nate to contracts & packaging them w/expirings like Hughes, Harrington to get a player he covets, or he can try & dump Fishlips or Curry's contracts this year using some of the expirings too... albeit those options are slim cuz not many teams are looking to dump salary for 2011... like we've both said from the beginning, it didn't need to get to this point, but we're at this point now & we gotta try & think of some ways to make the best of it.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by JohnWallace44:

How do you trade Jeffries now without taking on salary?

There were clear ways to do it prior to the deadline with Nate, with Lee, with expirings.

Nate and Lee are difficult to trade now, and the 09 expirings are obviously gone.

It looks to me like you would have to trade a serious asset to get Jeffries off the team at this point. This is what I've been saying since February.

not saying i disagree w/any of that cuz i've been right with you all along about the idea of trading Lee or Nate last year when we had the chance, but Donnie does still have the slim option of signing Lee or Nate to contracts & packaging them w/expirings like Hughes, Harrington to get a player he covets, or he can try & dump Fishlips or Curry's contracts this year using some of the expirings too... albeit those options are slim cuz not many teams are looking to dump salary for 2011... like we've both said from the beginning, it didn't need to get to this point, but we're at this point now & we gotta try & think of some ways to make the best of it.

Exactly, if the Nate/Jeffries trade went down you would have Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, and... well you'd have Evans, Rubio, or Curry because we wouldn't have won so many games. That would be the core. And... You would have room to sign two MaxFA's.

If you have room for two and that core, then you have the LeBron and Wade's of the world thinking that it would be relatively easy for them to jump to one team and dominate the league.

Now we're asking one of these guys to move, basically out of faith in the Dolans, out of charity for a broken franchise, and for a possible bump in sponsorship deals.

That's a big difference, and either way, Nate doesn't play into the future, so why wasn't he sent out at the deadline?

Doesn't make any sense any way you slice it.

The only way to move Jeffries now is with Mobley if we take back a big salaried, big problem player and I'm not sure who that player is. It would have to come out that KMart eats children and Denver became desperate to get rid of him. Something along those lines.

Maybe there's a deal out there. I would offer Washington Jeffries and Mobley for Stevenson, James and Haywood.

I don't know. I just don't get the Walsh plan so far.

Posted by JohnWallace44:

How do you trade Jeffries now without taking on salary?

There were clear ways to do it prior to the deadline with Nate, with Lee, with expirings.

Nate and Lee are difficult to trade now, and the 09 expirings are obviously gone.

It looks to me like you would have to trade a serious asset to get Jeffries off the team at this point. This is what I've been saying since February.

To be honest I think the Knicks will probably trade Chandler with a Jeffries to clear up room if they can. The problem might be who will be available if the Knicks do have cap room? Many teams are going to be locking up their players. Let's say Amare, Lebron, Dirk, Joe Johnson, Bosh, Dirk and Wade are all locked up? Who would you go after?