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BigSm00th
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8/2/2009  12:16 AM
briggs look i love the post i hear what you're saying but don't sour of the genius of the gentleman thief and the godfather just yet


nothing has been signed yet you are ranting and raving about their interest in tinsley or j williams from the old sacramento teams. they haven't signed anybody they still may offer an MLE to sessions which you say will be a good move (and i agree with a pure pure point w good size at 6'3" who will listen to the coaches and try hard every night will be an improvement over both duhon and nate and he's only 23 whats not to like?). they also may have played their hand perfectly with lee and may sign him at a discount price (odom gets 4 yr 34 mil lee asking for $10/mil a yr is laughable). nate i'd love a 1 yr QO put up or shut up time for that guy.

also the raptors and spurs both have won the lotto in their turnarounds, the knicks haven't had the fortune of even cracking the top what 5 in the last decade of lottery appearances? ty thomas at 4 to the bulls was the knicks pick so was jo noah at 9 or 11, i think gallo at 6 was probably the highest. chandler in the 20s should turn out to be a steal he's gotta start and put up #'s from the get-go like he was at the end of last year after not getting dealt by walsh on draft night to trade up.

the knicks have just been cursed man. it doesn't mean its hopeless though.
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LivingLegend
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8/2/2009  10:14 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]

Bad post Briggs.

We are in good hands with Walsh regardless of who he brings in over the next few weeks.

If he ends up getting Sessions you'll be the 1st one going off and saying we are on track with a young core.

Bottom line - none of these decisions are simple black and white because of the salary cap implications. Thinking you have more insight and basketball knowledge than the combined brain power and experience of guys like Walsh, D'Antoni, Grunwald, etc. is a bit silly.

Walsh is the one making decisions - just because he values and asks for input from his team doesn't mean he's any less in charge. That's the way good corporations are run or else you have a guy like Zeke running wild in his own personal fantasy land & twisted perspective of what is best for the club. Walsh takes input from various sources and uses that to either confirm or question his own opinion.
nixluva
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8/2/2009  11:33 AM
Walsh is a true poker player. The guy has called the bluff of so many of these RFA's, including our own and I think it will payoff. You can't really fault the approach cuz we haven't been burned yet by his patient style. To me even if it doesn't result in any big sexy move it was still the right way to play this.

I think we're going to have a much better team this year. Maybe just good enough to show a stud FA that NY is up and coming and just needs to add a stud like them to contend. I mean how good are the Cavs, Raps or Heat without their studs?
Caseloads
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8/2/2009  1:09 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Walsh is a true poker player. The guy has called the bluff of so many of these RFA's, including our own and I think it will payoff. You can't really fault the approach cuz we haven't been burned yet by his patient style. To me even if it doesn't result in any big sexy move it was still the right way to play this.

I think we're going to have a much better team this year. Maybe just good enough to show a stud FA that NY is up and coming and just needs to add a stud like them to contend. I mean how good are the Cavs, Raps or Heat without their studs?

excuse me - how good are the raps WITH their "stud"?
VDesai
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8/2/2009  2:18 PM
I think its something called leverage. Ramon Sessions doesn't have many places to go right now other than the Knicks. So to give the Knicks leverage in negotiations we bring up names like Tinsley, JWill, AI to get Sessions contract to come closer to our demands...and if he decides to spurn them we have a fallback.

And by claiming a guy like JWill that is using the waiver wire to get an asset- gives you a chance to see which teams in the rest of the league have an interest in that player...possibly work a trade for the guy.
bitty41
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8/2/2009  5:37 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]


Briggs,

I think you've pretty much summed it up this the same story just on a different cycle. Every GM goes through a grace period with Knick fans and he cannot be criticized nor are his decisions really questioned because afterall he has a plan. Then the inevitable happens the losing continues and slowly but surely more and more people start questioning his decisions, and then it culminates with the calls for his firing.
BRIGGS
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8/2/2009  6:15 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]


Briggs,

I think you've pretty much summed it up this the same story just on a different cycle. Every GM goes through a grace period with Knick fans and he cannot be criticized nor are his decisions really questioned because afterall he has a plan. Then the inevitable happens the losing continues and slowly but surely more and more people start questioning his decisions, and then it culminates with the calls for his firing.
It's like people saying we made the right choice with Gallinari over Randolph or Lopez.
Hearing the names Jason Williams and Jamal Tinsley and offering MLE money to Grant Hill and Jason Kidd[who only used them anyway]--to me thats not a plan and on top of it they couldnt pull off a sell job. I have reasonable concern and I want to see us to the right thing here with Sessions and Lee and still have max cap room for both 2010 and 2011. I would trade Lee in the right deal but I happen to be in the absolute minority that thinks he's a really really good ballplayer. I don't like the way the Knicks have handled this going back two years. I think we should already have david lee under a 6 year 40mm$ contract. Now he wants more and for now that is that.

Im glad that we have used restraint to get to FA but we have the room to still maneuver--we dont need two max FA's next year. Will David Lee take a 6 year 45mm $ contract tomorrow? I think he might just do that. I think they could frontload it in year 1 and make it cap friendly in year 2. I think David would take 45mm$ We would still ahve more than enough room for two max contracts 2010 and 2011 WITHOUT losing Lee.

If the Bulls want to give us Tyrus Thomas and a pick--I would S+T Lee younger not older
RIP Crushalot😞
martin
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8/2/2009  6:52 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]


Briggs,

I think you've pretty much summed it up this the same story just on a different cycle. Every GM goes through a grace period with Knick fans and he cannot be criticized nor are his decisions really questioned because afterall he has a plan. Then the inevitable happens the losing continues and slowly but surely more and more people start questioning his decisions, and then it culminates with the calls for his firing.
It's like people saying we made the right choice with Gallinari over Randolph or Lopez.
Hearing the names Jason Williams and Jamal Tinsley and offering MLE money to Grant Hill and Jason Kidd[who only used them anyway]--to me thats not a plan and on top of it they couldnt pull off a sell job. I have reasonable concern and I want to see us to the right thing here with Sessions and Lee and still have max cap room for both 2010 and 2011. I would trade Lee in the right deal but I happen to be in the absolute minority that thinks he's a really really good ballplayer. I don't like the way the Knicks have handled this going back two years. I think we should already have david lee under a 6 year 40mm$ contract. Now he wants more and for now that is that.

Im glad that we have used restraint to get to FA but we have the room to still maneuver--we dont need two max FA's next year. Will David Lee take a 6 year 45mm $ contract tomorrow? I think he might just do that. I think they could frontload it in year 1 and make it cap friendly in year 2. I think David would take 45mm$ We would still ahve more than enough room for two max contracts 2010 and 2011 WITHOUT losing Lee.

If the Bulls want to give us Tyrus Thomas and a pick--I would S+T Lee younger not older

here's why I can't take your post seriously.

Either you think it's a bad idea for the Knicks to go after JKidd and Grant Hill or it is not... you can't say it's a bad idea and then also fault them for doing a bad sales job on it.

Also, you think the Knicks could have gotten Lee for 6 years $40M? That's a contract that starts at $4M and increases at $1M per.
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BRIGGS
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8/2/2009  7:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]


Briggs,

I think you've pretty much summed it up this the same story just on a different cycle. Every GM goes through a grace period with Knick fans and he cannot be criticized nor are his decisions really questioned because afterall he has a plan. Then the inevitable happens the losing continues and slowly but surely more and more people start questioning his decisions, and then it culminates with the calls for his firing.
It's like people saying we made the right choice with Gallinari over Randolph or Lopez.
Hearing the names Jason Williams and Jamal Tinsley and offering MLE money to Grant Hill and Jason Kidd[who only used them anyway]--to me thats not a plan and on top of it they couldnt pull off a sell job. I have reasonable concern and I want to see us to the right thing here with Sessions and Lee and still have max cap room for both 2010 and 2011. I would trade Lee in the right deal but I happen to be in the absolute minority that thinks he's a really really good ballplayer. I don't like the way the Knicks have handled this going back two years. I think we should already have david lee under a 6 year 40mm$ contract. Now he wants more and for now that is that.

Im glad that we have used restraint to get to FA but we have the room to still maneuver--we dont need two max FA's next year. Will David Lee take a 6 year 45mm $ contract tomorrow? I think he might just do that. I think they could frontload it in year 1 and make it cap friendly in year 2. I think David would take 45mm$ We would still ahve more than enough room for two max contracts 2010 and 2011 WITHOUT losing Lee.

If the Bulls want to give us Tyrus Thomas and a pick--I would S+T Lee younger not older

here's why I can't take your post seriously.

Either you think it's a bad idea for the Knicks to go after JKidd and Grant Hill or it is not... you can't say it's a bad idea and then also fault them for doing a bad sales job on it.--->Of course you can--their two separate entities--while I didnt agree with going after them---they did so and were also rebuffed.

Also, you think the Knicks could have gotten Lee for 6 years $40M? That's a contract that starts at $4M and increases at $1M per.
I do think last year before the season started we couldve had Lee for slightly more than an MLE 6 years 40mm==6.75mm per on avg

RIP Crushalot😞
Knicksfan
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8/2/2009  7:29 PM
People love living in the past
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orangeblobman
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8/2/2009  8:44 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

People love living in the past

It's a shame because the present is cooler than the past!
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
BasketballJones
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8/2/2009  8:46 PM
Posted by bitty41:


Briggs,

I think you've pretty much summed it up this the same story just on a different cycle. Every GM goes through a grace period with Knick fans and he cannot be criticized nor are his decisions really questioned because afterall he has a plan. Then the inevitable happens the losing continues and slowly but surely more and more people start questioning his decisions, and then it culminates with the calls for his firing.

And that's the best part. I can't wait.
https:// It's not so hard.
BRIGGS
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8/2/2009  9:22 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

People love living in the past

If they offer Sessions the full MLE and find a solid conclusion to the David Lee gig I won't say a word.

To be honest I think Ramon Sessions would average 17/18 points 10 assists and 5 rebounds at 38 a night here while hooting 45%. If that is not worth the MLE I dont know what is.
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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8/2/2009  10:23 PM
walsh, by his actions, basically said last season didn't mean too much and this upcoming season doesn't really matter either.

2010-ALL-IN...
martin
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8/2/2009  11:47 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

walsh, by his actions, basically said last season didn't mean too much and this upcoming season doesn't really matter either.

2010-ALL-IN...

what do you mean by "his actions"? Not have a starting 5 that included Baron, Chandler, Carter, Jeffries?
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BasketballJones
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8/3/2009  12:18 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:

walsh, by his actions, basically said last season didn't mean too much and this upcoming season doesn't really matter either.

2010-ALL-IN...

what do you mean by "his actions"? Not have a starting 5 that included Baron, Chandler, Carter, Jeffries?

He means "by his naps"
https:// It's not so hard.
Ira
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8/3/2009  6:16 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by BRIGGS:

Good club trades crp for young 22 SG with significant promise who fits well into their system Bellineli. Good team steals tier 1 FA from other good club


Bad team makes headlines looking for 32YO+ retreads with questionable character. Bad team get used by FA's. Bad teams looks indecisive because that's what they are. Bad teams treats their own good players like crp--other players in the league see this. Did this happen in the 90's No--Knicks rewarded good players and surround them with more good players.


Instead of F wasting time with these two older somewhat shot PGs with injury histories with ? character for a young team--go find me an Anthony Mason or a John Starks.


We have to many voices--what the Knicks needed was Bryan Colangelo--not 5 retread Gms who all have a view which seem to be different.

Dolan is such a F idiot--terrible manager of personnel.

I would fire ever F person associated with this team scouts our 9 GMs the idiot doctors who seem to make our players worse and give Gregg Popovich 10mm per year when his contract runs up this year and another 3-4mm to haev his GM come along and just say here is the job--get it done./
the Knicks needed to make a move for a Gregg Popovich or a Bryan Colangelo 5 years ago. There really are two moves that put us back on the map late 80 and into the 90s---Pat Riley and Pat Ewing--we have relied on retread LOSERS and has beens.

We never cleaned the house and we never got the one strong voice who knows what he is doing.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:55 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-01-2009 08:56 AM]


Briggs,

I think you've pretty much summed it up this the same story just on a different cycle. Every GM goes through a grace period with Knick fans and he cannot be criticized nor are his decisions really questioned because afterall he has a plan. Then the inevitable happens the losing continues and slowly but surely more and more people start questioning his decisions, and then it culminates with the calls for his firing.
It's like people saying we made the right choice with Gallinari over Randolph or Lopez.
Hearing the names Jason Williams and Jamal Tinsley and offering MLE money to Grant Hill and Jason Kidd[who only used them anyway]--to me thats not a plan and on top of it they couldnt pull off a sell job. I have reasonable concern and I want to see us to the right thing here with Sessions and Lee and still have max cap room for both 2010 and 2011. I would trade Lee in the right deal but I happen to be in the absolute minority that thinks he's a really really good ballplayer. I don't like the way the Knicks have handled this going back two years. I think we should already have david lee under a 6 year 40mm$ contract. Now he wants more and for now that is that.

Im glad that we have used restraint to get to FA but we have the room to still maneuver--we dont need two max FA's next year. Will David Lee take a 6 year 45mm $ contract tomorrow? I think he might just do that. I think they could frontload it in year 1 and make it cap friendly in year 2. I think David would take 45mm$ We would still ahve more than enough room for two max contracts 2010 and 2011 WITHOUT losing Lee.

If the Bulls want to give us Tyrus Thomas and a pick--I would S+T Lee younger not older

here's why I can't take your post seriously.

Either you think it's a bad idea for the Knicks to go after JKidd and Grant Hill or it is not... you can't say it's a bad idea and then also fault them for doing a bad sales job on it.--->Of course you can--their two separate entities--while I didnt agree with going after them---they did so and were also rebuffed.

Also, you think the Knicks could have gotten Lee for 6 years $40M? That's a contract that starts at $4M and increases at $1M per.
I do think last year before the season started we couldve had Lee for slightly more than an MLE 6 years 40mm==6.75mm per on avg

At that time, Walsh said that Lee wanted $10 million per year.
fishmike
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8/3/2009  8:16 AM
you have no, none, zero idea what kind of player Gallinari is going to be so lets relax there. Lets also relax on moves that havent been made yet.

I mean you were all happy crappy excited about our summer league team with a bunch of guys in the 20s who were former #1s and clearly had some talent. They played like crap. Does that now mean that it wasnt a good move? Take back what you said?

He's looked at just as many young guys who can be your Starks/Mason as he's looked at old guys.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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8/3/2009  9:07 AM
I love Sessions and I think he is exactly the type of play maker the team needs and it's a nice balance with him and duhon coming off the bench.

And....

2010 FREE AGENCY: Bosh won't join LeBron
Chris Bosh will be a member of the stellar 2010 free agent class next summer, but one team he won't be signing with is the Cleveland Cavaliers.
The News-Herald points out that the team won't have enough money under the cap next summer to bring in a high-dollar free agent after signing Anderson Varejao, Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon to multi-year contracts last month.

Lebron may or may not come here. But I don't really like the team Cleveland has long term. All were nice additions including Shaq, but I just don't see this team being able to sustain year after year with the collection of marginal talent.

Sessions, Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill, Douglas, Nate, Harrington (there is good talent there, and talent that can improve Cleveland really doesn't have a lot of that on it's roster)

If Lebron can make West look like a very good player and get Williams into the All-Star game? I think we can become a good club.

Nate/Hill need to be used this season to move Jefferies/Curry. Then I think this team really has the makings of a solid unit. Harrington resigned as a Sixth man in the offseason wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either.
Marv
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8/3/2009  9:13 AM
Posted by MS:

I love Sessions and I think he is exactly the type of play maker the team needs and it's a nice balance with him and duhon coming off the bench.

And....

2010 FREE AGENCY: Bosh won't join LeBron
Chris Bosh will be a member of the stellar 2010 free agent class next summer, but one team he won't be signing with is the Cleveland Cavaliers.
The News-Herald points out that the team won't have enough money under the cap next summer to bring in a high-dollar free agent after signing Anderson Varejao, Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon to multi-year contracts last month.

Lebron may or may not come here. But I don't really like the team Cleveland has long term. All were nice additions including Shaq, but I just don't see this team being able to sustain year after year with the collection of marginal talent.

Sessions, Chandler, Gallo, Lee, Hill, Douglas, Nate, Harrington (there is good talent there, and talent that can improve Cleveland really doesn't have a lot of that on it's roster)

If Lebron can make West look like a very good player and get Williams into the All-Star game? I think we can become a good club.

Nate/Hill need to be used this season to move Jefferies/Curry. Then I think this team really has the makings of a solid unit. Harrington resigned as a Sixth man in the offseason wouldn't be the worst thing in the world either.

what? why in the world would you be so quick to give away hill in order to shed a contract? he's got potential and we have no idea how well he might develop.
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