Posted by BigC:

Say what you want, but Herb Williams as a head coach got about the same amount of wins as Mike D'Antoni and Isiah. Also you have to have defensive players to play defense. Defense is not just effort, it is a skill.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by BigC:

Say what you want, but Herb Williams as a head coach got about the same amount of wins as Mike D'Antoni and Isiah. Also you have to have defensive players to play defense. Defense is not just effort, it is a skill.

Good points. Except, remember when Herb took over for Don Chaney. It tanked. Herb's not head coaching material and as an assistant coach he appears to be pretty useless. You see Dan D'Antoni and Phil Weber getting right up in players and coaching them after a timeout or a foul or a turnover. Herb? Kinda sits there with that look on his face like he's just going to let things play out. He's not active, that's not his style, and you need your coaches to be VERY active, otherwise what good are they?

Something is just odd with Herb's constant relationship with the Knicks. It seems to have nothing to do with coaching ability, something he's not good at to begin with, but more of a loyalty thing with Dolan. Who knows why he's still here but he is. I don't HATE Herb Williams I just don't understand why he's been forced upon every new coaching staff. He's not that slick to be here through all the turmoil. Something else is the root of it.

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by BigC:

Say what you want, but Herb Williams as a head coach got about the same amount of wins as Mike D'Antoni and Isiah. Also you have to have defensive players to play defense. Defense is not just effort, it is a skill.

Its a combination of both, and in many ways the effort and desire aspect is more important, IMO.

A player with defensive "skills" who puts no effort and pride into his defensive game has the same impact on the court as a guy who puts in no effort and has NO defensive skills, BUT

a player who lacks those same defensive "skills" but puts a lot of effort into his defensive play can sometimes make a difference.

Look at the great defensive players- especially the great one/one defenders. They took it personally when an opponent scored on them. That is the attitude you want on this team- that is the attitude we don't have on this team now.

Let Herb work on the offensive aspects of the game with our big men- let Oakley handle the defensive end.

Posted by BigC:

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by BigC:

Say what you want, but Herb Williams as a head coach got about the same amount of wins as Mike D'Antoni and Isiah. Also you have to have defensive players to play defense. Defense is not just effort, it is a skill.

Its a combination of both, and in many ways the effort and desire aspect is more important, IMO.

A player with defensive "skills" who puts no effort and pride into his defensive game has the same impact on the court as a guy who puts in no effort and has NO defensive skills, BUT

a player who lacks those same defensive "skills" but puts a lot of effort into his defensive play can sometimes make a difference.

Look at the great defensive players- especially the great one/one defenders. They took it personally when an opponent scored on them. That is the attitude you want on this team- that is the attitude we don't have on this team now.

Let Herb work on the offensive aspects of the game with our big men- let Oakley handle the defensive end.

If a guy has no skill he can not play defense. You take anyone on the court right now and if they have no defensive skill they will not be able to play defense. I don't care how much effort they put in they will not be able to check anyone.

The point is that you name any player that is successful at play good defense or a top defender and I will bet you they didn't start playing good defense when they joined the NBA or probably even college. Those players will tell you that they learned the art of playing defense at an early age. Yes, people can learn new techniques with drawing charges but real hard nose defense can not just be picked up in the off-season like working on your jumpshot. On an NBA team there is not enough time to work to help players on defense. Most of the time during the NBA season is spent on playing games,traveling and having team practices. There is little time spent on individual defense. Not to mention you need another player to work on your defense. Whereas offense you do not need to have another person around to work on your offensive game.

Do you think that Lee lacks the "skill" to play D?

Do you think that Harrington lacks the "skill" to play D?

Do you think that Balkman, especially in his first year, had some special "skills" to play D that certain others did not?

There are some basics that you have to learn and some of the tricks of the trade, and lets face it, some players don't have the lateral quickness to be good defenders, but if you put in the right effort when you actually play in a game, and remember some of the basics, you should be able to hold your own on the defensive end of the court.


Most of these guys have a basic understanding of D, even if they don't play it. As Red Holtzman said to Phil Jackson, when they were both on the Knicks- BB is not rocket science... On offense you hit the open man...on D you have to see the ball.

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by BigC:

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by BigC:

Say what you want, but Herb Williams as a head coach got about the same amount of wins as Mike D'Antoni and Isiah. Also you have to have defensive players to play defense. Defense is not just effort, it is a skill.

Its a combination of both, and in many ways the effort and desire aspect is more important, IMO.

A player with defensive "skills" who puts no effort and pride into his defensive game has the same impact on the court as a guy who puts in no effort and has NO defensive skills, BUT

a player who lacks those same defensive "skills" but puts a lot of effort into his defensive play can sometimes make a difference.

Look at the great defensive players- especially the great one/one defenders. They took it personally when an opponent scored on them. That is the attitude you want on this team- that is the attitude we don't have on this team now.

Let Herb work on the offensive aspects of the game with our big men- let Oakley handle the defensive end.

If a guy has no skill he can not play defense. You take anyone on the court right now and if they have no defensive skill they will not be able to play defense. I don't care how much effort they put in they will not be able to check anyone.

The point is that you name any player that is successful at play good defense or a top defender and I will bet you they didn't start playing good defense when they joined the NBA or probably even college. Those players will tell you that they learned the art of playing defense at an early age. Yes, people can learn new techniques with drawing charges but real hard nose defense can not just be picked up in the off-season like working on your jumpshot. On an NBA team there is not enough time to work to help players on defense. Most of the time during the NBA season is spent on playing games,traveling and having team practices. There is little time spent on individual defense. Not to mention you need another player to work on your defense. Whereas offense you do not need to have another person around to work on your offensive game.

Do you think that Lee lacks the "skill" to play D?

Do you think that Harrington lacks the "skill" to play D?

Do you think that Balkman, especially in his first year, had some special "skills" to play D that certain others did not?

There are some basics that you have to learn and some of the tricks of the trade, and lets face it, some players don't have the lateral quickness to be good defenders, but if you put in the right effort when you actually play in a game, and remember some of the basics, you should be able to hold your own on the defensive end of the court.


Most of these guys have a basic understanding of D, even if they don't play it. As Red Holtzman said to Phil Jackson, when they were both on the Knicks- BB is not rocket science... On offense you hit the open man...on D you have to see the ball.

Yes, I do think Lee lacks the skill to play defense. Just because you jump high does not mean you can play defense or just be taught in the NBA to play defense. The NBA is filled with athletic players, if that was the case then anyone can learn to play defense. Let me ask you this, do you think Lee is not putting in effort to play defense? Because he gives 100% to play defense on the court. It is just that he does not have the defensive skill to guard his man.

Also Al Harrington is known to be a defender. Which goes to my point that he already knew how to play defense before he got to the NBA. He just didn't aquire the skill. All the years that Harrington has played in the NBA he was known as a good defender. Ask anyone.

Why do you think guys like Larry Brown always wants to get,"Their guy?" rather than just teach someone to play defense? The reason is he knows it is a hard task.

Balkman was known as a defender. Check him out in college. He was a big time defender in college. You are just proving my point.

Anyone that has played ball on the court or even kids that I have coached will tell I know a lot about playing defense. The NBA is a time that it is hard for someone to catch up and learn or acquire learning how to play defense.

You think guys like Artest just learned to play defense? Offense is the skill that players improve on because you don't need another person to work on your game with. Traps and learning how to draw charges is complete different from guarding your man. People are not going to be spending major time like in H.S. or go to the park everyday to teach players how to play defense.




[Edited by - BigC on 07-26-2009 11:17 AM]

Posted by GKFv2:

He does not give 100% on the court on defense. False. So many times when a man beats him so bad for a wide open dunk, that's just not trying. He's more worried about getting the rebound than playing D. There's no way if he was trying 100% he'd be so bad. Ridiculously bad. If that's the case then either way he has to go because his defense is atrocious and can't be fixed.

Posted by GKFv2:

Yes, I do. I think he is too lazy to keep track of his own man and a guy gets wide open under the basket for an easy hoop while Lee sits and watches.

Posted by BigC:


Yes, I do think Lee lacks the skill to play defense. Just because you jump high does not mean you can play defense or just be taught in the NBA to play defense. The NBA is filled with athletic players, if that was the case then anyone can learn to play defense. Let me ask you this, do you think Lee is not putting in effort to play defense? Because he gives 100% to play defense on the court. It is just that he does not have the defensive skill to guard his man.

Also Al Harrington is known to be a defender. Which goes to my point that he already knew how to play defense before he got to the NBA. He just didn't aquire the skill. All the years that Harrington has played in the NBA he was known as a good defender. Ask anyone.

Why do you think guys like Larry Brown always wants to get,"Their guy?" rather than just teach someone to play defense? The reason is he knows it is a hard task.

Balkman was known as a defender. Check him out in college. He was a big time defender in college. You are just proving my point.

Anyone that has played ball on the court or even kids that I have coached will tell I know a lot about playing defense. The NBA is a time that it is hard for someone to catch up and learn or acquire learning how to play defense.

You think guys like Artest just learned to play defense? Offense is the skill that players improve on because you don't need another person to work on your game with. Traps and learning how to draw charges is complete different from guarding your man. People are not going to be spending major time like in H.S. or go to the park everyday to teach players how to play defense.

[Edited by - BigC on 07-26-2009 11:17 AM]