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Parity in the NBA
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Bippity10
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7/22/2009  10:32 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by kam77:

The NBA is just like the playground. If your team has the best player around, you're staying on the court all day.

It's not like that in other major sports. There's much more emphasis on a complete team. In the NBA if you have Batman and Robin, or a Big Three, you're a serious contender regardless of the rest of the roster.

If so few great players control the destiny of NBA franchises and player movement is rare... then you have the NBA.

I agree. That's why I think Walsh is right for securing the possibility of signing one of those great players. I mean, we're not just talking about cap space. We're talking about cap space during the hugest free agency period in recent memory.

nothing wrong with walsh's plan for all-in 2010. i just question if it was necessary b/c what if he doesn't get his guy in 2010, then what? is he going to sign his 4th choice like he's rumored to be doing with sessions?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:19 AM]

Then what? Then you are in the same position you should have been in anyway. Cap space, young players, vets with short contracts. We keep acting as if Lebron doesn't sign then we are doomed, yet at the same time we all seem to realize we had to clean out the roster anyway. Getting a shot at the Lebron types is just a bonus.

that's cool...but my whole premise is that the team could've been in the same position in 2011 but actually winning a bunch of games and advancing in the playoffs w/ d'antoni at coach.

How?
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martin
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7/22/2009  10:34 AM
a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?
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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  10:38 AM
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

that's basically what it comes down to. down 3 runs in the 9th, do you go for the grandslam to win the game or do you try to mount a rally to get some runs in?

with d'antoni in town, i would've went the rally route b/c i think d'antoni could get a bunch of scorers to win big time...no guarantee to win either way, but the rally is much more attainable...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:40 AM]
Bippity10
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7/22/2009  10:39 AM
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

How were you getting a group of these guys? Is that route different than Isiah's slap a bunch of guys on a roster and let the coach figure it out?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 22-07-2009 10:40 AM]
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martin
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7/22/2009  10:42 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

that's basically what it comes down to. down 3 runs in the 9th, do you go for the grandslam to win the game or do you try to mount a rally to get some runs in?

with d'antoni in town, i would've went the rally route b/c i think d'antoni could get a bunch of scorers to win big time...no guarantee to win either way, but the rally is much more attainable...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:40 AM]

Jefferies, Vince and JKidd in their primes with KMart in his prime couldn't win.

Who else was out there? Zbo?
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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  10:43 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

How were you getting a group of these guys? Is that route different than Isiah's slap a bunch of guys on a roster and let the coach figure it out?

your opinion of d'antoni is that low?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:43 AM]
djsunyc
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7/22/2009  10:46 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

that's basically what it comes down to. down 3 runs in the 9th, do you go for the grandslam to win the game or do you try to mount a rally to get some runs in?

with d'antoni in town, i would've went the rally route b/c i think d'antoni could get a bunch of scorers to win big time...no guarantee to win either way, but the rally is much more attainable...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:40 AM]

Jefferies, Vince and JKidd in their primes with KMart in his prime couldn't win.

Who else was out there? Zbo?

ludicrous. no championship = not winning. ludicrous.

there is ALOT of success minus a championship. it's a ridiculous expectation especially since winning one is based on ALOT of luck.

50 wins + advancing in playoffs >>>>>>>>> than what the knicks have achieved in 10 years...

i loved those 90's knicks...but the reality was that they made 1 finals when jordan retired and made another finals in a strike shortened season. otherwise, they too were a 50 win team advancing in the playoffs. that's MAJOR success.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:46 AM]
Bippity10
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7/22/2009  10:51 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

How were you getting a group of these guys? Is that route different than Isiah's slap a bunch of guys on a roster and let the coach figure it out?

your opinion of d'antoni is that low?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:43 AM]

What do you mean?

Again, how were you getting that fantasy line-up you listed?
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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  10:55 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

How were you getting a group of these guys? Is that route different than Isiah's slap a bunch of guys on a roster and let the coach figure it out?

your opinion of d'antoni is that low?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:43 AM]

What do you mean?

Again, how were you getting that fantasy line-up you listed?

fantasy gm'ing:

no need to get all of them. you trade for vince. if that means trading an expiring and lee - fine.

draft lopez.

gives you a starting lineup of duhon + vince + chandler + zach + lopez

you then move crawford for some spare parts.

and you still have expirings to make more moves. don't need to fill your team out with all stars BUT that lineup i typed above w/ d'antoni coaching wins ALOT of games. you have defense, you have scoring, you have rebounding, you have a prime time player and you have the coach. heck, that team with any coach wins alot of games.

vince + zach expire in 2011 so they can be moved then. you still have chandler + lopez as young players.

you still had a pick in this draft, you still had the option of re-signing nate, you still have MLE w/ guys chopping on the bit to join the team instead of using them to get better deals.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 11:02 AM]
bitty41
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7/22/2009  10:57 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bitty41:
bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.

Why take a job at a crappy organization if you have no immediate intentions of turning the team around? Then waste even more money on a coach if this just a deconstruction period.

Maybe because Walsh liked the coach? Had Walsh not hired D'Antoni when he did, he wasn't going to be around when it came time to "contend"


That's a waste of money because it only makes sense to hire a coach of D'Antoni's caliber if you are planning to start winning NOW. Not 3, 4 years down the line.
nyk4ever
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7/22/2009  11:02 AM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by bitty41:
bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.

Why take a job at a crappy organization if you have no immediate intentions of turning the team around? Then waste even more money on a coach if this just a deconstruction period.

Maybe because Walsh liked the coach? Had Walsh not hired D'Antoni when he did, he wasn't going to be around when it came time to "contend"


That's a waste of money because it only makes sense to hire a coach of D'Antoni's caliber if you are planning to start winning NOW. Not 3, 4 years down the line.

Who cares if its a waste of money. It doesn't count against the cap and Dolan has more money than god. Why would you concern yourself with something that an organization spends on that doesn't count against the cap?
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Bippity10
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7/22/2009  11:05 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

How were you getting a group of these guys? Is that route different than Isiah's slap a bunch of guys on a roster and let the coach figure it out?

your opinion of d'antoni is that low?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:43 AM]

What do you mean?

Again, how were you getting that fantasy line-up you listed?

fantasy gm'ing:

no need to get all of them. you trade for vince. if that means trading an expiring and lee - fine.

draft lopez.

gives you a starting lineup of duhon + vince + chandler + zach + lopez

you then move crawford for some spare parts.

and you still have expirings to make more moves. don't need to fill your team out with all stars BUT that lineup i typed above w/ d'antoni coaching wins ALOT of games. you have defense, you have scoring, you have rebounding, you have a prime time player and you have the coach.

vince + zach expire in 2011 so they can be moved then. you still have chandler + lopez as young players.

you still had a pick in this draft, you still had the option of re-signing nate, you still have MLE w/ guys chopping on the bit to join the team instead of using them to get better deals.

So you are assuming that the Nets would trade Carter to their rival in the division and would help out a team that is trying to also attract Lebron. And as long as we are playing fantasy, what if gallo turns out to be 3 times the player as Lopez? It's easy to make a GM look bad or good when we base our arguments on fantasy.
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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  11:06 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

So you are assuming that the Nets would trade Carter to their rival in the division and would help out a team that is trying to also attract Lebron. And as long as we are playing fantasy, what if gallo turns out to be 3 times the player as Lopez? It's easy to make a GM look bad or good when we base our arguments on fantasy.

impossible, gallo has stiff legs...
TMS
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7/22/2009  11:08 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
gives you a starting lineup of duhon + vince + chandler + zach + lopez

you then move crawford for some spare parts.

and you still have expirings to make more moves. don't need to fill your team out with all stars BUT that lineup i typed above w/ d'antoni coaching wins ALOT of games.

NJ had a starting lineup of Harris + Vince + Simmons + Yi + Lopez with a very good head coach in Frank and they won 34 games last year... sure, Chandler is better than Yi, but Harris is miles better than Duhon... is adding Zach to that team gonna make them into a guaranteed playoff contender? maybe a .500 or so team but is mediocrity what we're shooting after?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
bitty41
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7/22/2009  11:09 AM
I am not obsessed with the cap but when a GM hires hire a coach he should have the full intention of putting together the best possible roster he can within (his limitations).
martin
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7/22/2009  11:10 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:

a shot at LBJ, Wade, etc or trade for Baron, Tyson, Jefferies, Vince Carter?

How were you getting a group of these guys? Is that route different than Isiah's slap a bunch of guys on a roster and let the coach figure it out?

your opinion of d'antoni is that low?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:43 AM]

What do you mean?

Again, how were you getting that fantasy line-up you listed?

fantasy gm'ing:

no need to get all of them. you trade for vince. if that means trading an expiring and lee - fine.

draft lopez.

gives you a starting lineup of duhon + vince + chandler + zach + lopez

I think you just GM'ed a slightly better '08 Nets, who were like 34-48.

Harris + Vince + Simmons + Yi + Lopez


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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  11:11 AM
harris not a run a team type of pg, he is a scorer. harris + vince don't mesh well. duhon + vince far more effective combo.

and zach is better than simmons + yi by 57.2 miles...

and comparing frank to d'antoni? really...is that what y'all think about your coach?

come on folks...

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 11:12 AM]
TMS
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7/22/2009  11:14 AM
face it dude, that team of yours would only make us into a .500 type team, not a serious contender... repeat of the same ol' crap we've been doing since Ewing left... what's the point?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
djsunyc
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7/22/2009  11:14 AM
but back to the topic...there will never be parity in the NBA when the CBA is so restrictive.
djsunyc
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7/22/2009  11:15 AM
Posted by TMS:

face it dude, that team of yours would only make us into a .500 type team, not a serious contender... repeat of the same ol' crap we've been doing since Ewing left... what's the point?

did you think the magic could get to the finals with shard at the pf?
Parity in the NBA

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