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I am really curious to know what Nate should do differently to change the perception of him around here
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Cosmic
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7/15/2009  12:09 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Pure Acid

"He needs to stop being an immature prick"

Just curious why it is necessary to invoke a demeaning body reference?

"He needs to stop ignoring certain teammates just because he wants to jack a prayer."

Nate is a cancer.


Oh please...if you don't understand the usage of the word to illustrate someone's attitude I don't know what to tell you. Nate indeed is an immature prick, jackass, moron, idiot, retard...whatever. Just the way he is when things don't go as planned for him.


So you agree? Good. In terms of meshing with teammates on the court over the course of the game he's far more Marbury than he is Steve Nash. He needs to become the latter if his skills are going to be meaningful. Otherwise he's simply another skilled player who just doesn't get it or doesn't care to get it. See Marbury, Hughes, Francis, etc. All that skill, all those stats, and all that failing. It isn't a coincidence.

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SupremeCommander
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7/15/2009  12:10 PM
He still doesn't "play the right way" and he certainly doesn't win
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franco12
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7/15/2009  12:38 PM
fish - its the same mentality that said good riddance to Kurt Thomas, that things would improve in the addition by subtraction method of improving team talent.
Bippity10
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7/15/2009  12:38 PM
I'm with you Fish: He's not an ideal player. But there is definitely a place for this guy in the rotation of a good team. He just has the misfortune of being immature and being lead by guys that were more immature.

In our current situation I think we would be better off with a lesser talented ball mover that can be more of a leader from that spot, but that doesn't diminish Nate's skills. We just do that in NY. We have good role players and because they aren't superstars we ignore the talents they bring. Nate has shortcomings but it doesn't diminish the fact that the brings it EVERY NIGHT, he can score with the best of them and has led so many come backs for this team on nights when the rest of the guys obviously did not want to play, that it doesn't make sense taht we would want to run him out of town.

Then again, we said good riddance to Patrick too.
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Cosmic
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7/15/2009  12:44 PM
Posted by franco12:

fish - its the same mentality that said good riddance to Kurt Thomas, that things would improve in the addition by subtraction method of improving team talent.

Things didn't improve with Kurt Thomas leaving because Isiah was in the process of tossing our franchise off a cliff.

We traded Kurt at JUST the right time. He declined drastically and not for nothing when Q was healthy he was a beast even for us - the problem was - he wasn't healthy - but you just don't know about those things. Nate was a good pickup talent wise in that swap as well.

That was an awesome trade. Kurt Thomas wore out his welcome because he was slowing down, he wasn't half the defender people made him out to be, and when his 14 footer was bricking he was USELESS out there for us which was 6 out of 10 games.

So, come'on, let's not pump up Kurt Thomas and think the franchise tanked because we traded that guy.


...as to Nate. Yeah, nice stats, crappy attitude. It's simple as that. I'd love Nate as a 20mpg player off the bench for a GOOD TO GREAT TEAM. We're a crap team and we're relying on guys like Nate Robinson to carry us. When a guy like Nate is carrying your team you're going to stink. Simple as that.

If we can keep Nate cheaply then you do it knowing one day he will indeed be just a 20mpg player off the bench. Any more than that his negatives well outweigh his positives.

I don't see why it's so hard to understand that players like Nate Robinson will hurt your team if he's any more than a 20mpg role player!
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Bippity10
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7/15/2009  12:49 PM
There is a reason why many of the guys that leave here look better when they go somewhere else. It's not that they are better. It's because they are in a role that suits them. Nate on a better team in a role where he is allowed to shoot, his attitude can be marginalized, and can be led by true leaders, will ultimately be a very good player.

If he goes to teams like the Knicks where there are no leaders to show him the way, and the talent level is low, he will continue to be who he is.
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Rookie
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7/15/2009  12:56 PM
Posted by Bippity10:


If he goes to teams like the Knicks where there are no leaders to show him the way, and the talent level is low, he will continue to be who he is.


That's a real stretch. Nate is immature and self absorbed. In his mind he is a superstar equal to the Bryant's, Wade's, James's and Howard's of the NBA. If he's so great, how come no NBA team is showing him the love? The kids a blockhead and NOONE will EVER get through to him. He is gonzo
crzymdups
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7/15/2009  1:22 PM
i'm having a course reversal on this one - we're idiots if we let nate go.

he's the only remotely special player on this roster, we can sign him for cheap and we want him gone.

i agree he's had no leadership here. i would've loved to see what a guy like grant hill would do as far as tutoring nate.
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orangeblobman
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7/15/2009  1:23 PM
What can he do?

How about grow up?
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Cosmic
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7/15/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

i'm having a course reversal on this one - we're idiots if we let nate go.

he's the only remotely special player on this roster, we can sign him for cheap and we want him gone.

i agree he's had no leadership here. i would've loved to see what a guy like grant hill would do as far as tutoring nate.

Nate ignores any semblance of leadership. When he would get hot under the collar or screw up badly you always saw Q or Malik trying to talk to him. What would Nate do? Argue with them and eventually walk away from them - sometimes flat out ignoring them, pushing them away, even throwing his hands down at them in disgust to what they had to say. He argues with all coaches and all refs.

There isn't a player or mentor in the world who can get through to Nate and guide him because simply put: NATE DOES NOT WANT TO HEAR IT.


And again, outside of all this, I really love the kid and love watching him light it up, we just have to be realistic about his attitude and how he plays and how that could translate to winning. He shouldn't be any more than a 20mpg role player on a very good team. He hasn't been able to be that here and it's likely due to that he has some pretty nice stats and could command more money than anyone would want to invest in a bench player.

If he got his head together he's worth the MLE as of today....again, as a bench player filling a 6th-8th man role.

Problem is - he doesn't have his head together - and doesn't seem interested in ever getting it together. I grew tired of watching him pass up open teammates to try to pull off a tough play. I got tired of watching him bicker with everyone and never being wrong in his eyes.

You just can't have that personality and expect to win.
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fishmike
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7/15/2009  1:35 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

i'm having a course reversal on this one - we're idiots if we let nate go.

he's the only remotely special player on this roster, we can sign him for cheap and we want him gone.

i agree he's had no leadership here. i would've loved to see what a guy like grant hill would do as far as tutoring nate.
this is my point, which DJ eluded to. He's prob the only one that really impacts a game by himself and dictates a tempo just by being on the floor. He has traits that special player have.

Which brings me to JayNYC, blobman and Cosmic's comments about maturity and efficiency etc

good points and I agree. But hasnt he shown improvement EVERY YEAR in all of those categories? No.. he's not there yet but he's gotten better which was the point of this thread. This isnt a Marbury who is what he is. He played in the summer league to improve his PG skills. His FG% has gotten better in spite of shooting more 3s every year. He fight with opposing PFs for rebounds and attacks lose balls.

And rookie.. if he thinks he's Kobe or Wade why hasnt his agent demanded the $10-$12mm a year Lee is asking for? Has he even asked for anything? All the guy has said is we wants to play basketball for the Knicks.

Our key guys his rookie year: Marbury, crawford, Curry, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis, Qyntel Woods, Mo Taylor, Jerome JAmes and a bunch of other kids. And people are shocked he's immature and his game hasnt evolved around winning? Really guys?

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
McK1
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7/15/2009  1:37 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

we just have to be realistic about his attitude and how he plays and how that could translate to winning

highly enthusiastic, never giving up, leave it all out on the floor...yep sounds like a big loser!

can him!
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orangeblobman
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7/15/2009  1:39 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Cosmic:

we just have to be realistic about his attitude and how he plays and how that could translate to winning

highly enthusiastic, never giving up, leave it all out on the floor...yep sounds like a big loser!

can him!

enthusiasm, never giving up, and every other 'good' quality can be WORTHLESS if it is misguided.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
crzymdups
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7/15/2009  1:44 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

i'm having a course reversal on this one - we're idiots if we let nate go.

he's the only remotely special player on this roster, we can sign him for cheap and we want him gone.

i agree he's had no leadership here. i would've loved to see what a guy like grant hill would do as far as tutoring nate.
this is my point, which DJ eluded to. He's prob the only one that really impacts a game by himself and dictates a tempo just by being on the floor. He has traits that special player have.

Which brings me to JayNYC, blobman and Cosmic's comments about maturity and efficiency etc

good points and I agree. But hasnt he shown improvement EVERY YEAR in all of those categories? No.. he's not there yet but he's gotten better which was the point of this thread. This isnt a Marbury who is what he is. He played in the summer league to improve his PG skills. His FG% has gotten better in spite of shooting more 3s every year. He fight with opposing PFs for rebounds and attacks lose balls.

And rookie.. if he thinks he's Kobe or Wade why hasnt his agent demanded the $10-$12mm a year Lee is asking for? Has he even asked for anything? All the guy has said is we wants to play basketball for the Knicks.

Our key guys his rookie year: Marbury, crawford, Curry, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis, Qyntel Woods, Mo Taylor, Jerome JAmes and a bunch of other kids. And people are shocked he's immature and his game hasnt evolved around winning? Really guys?

yeah, i completely agree. they should sign him to a decent deal and if you need to package him to get rid of Jefferies during the year, so be it.

the problem isn't that he thinks he's the best player on the team - the problem is that he is the best player on the team. losing is going to breed bickering and complaining. does anyone really think he'd complain one iota if he were coming off the bench for bron or kobe's team? i don't. he'd be a playoff sparkplug.

why a team like denver doesn't chase him like crazy is beyond me. oh, i guess maybe because he embarassed carmelo. but other than that.
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fishmike
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7/15/2009  1:46 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Cosmic:

we just have to be realistic about his attitude and how he plays and how that could translate to winning

highly enthusiastic, never giving up, leave it all out on the floor...yep sounds like a big loser!

can him!

enthusiasm, never giving up, and every other 'good' quality can be WORTHLESS if it is misguided.
GREAT point. It can be guided.

You cant teach hard work and intensity. If you could Derrick Coleman would have been the best player in NBA history and Eddie Curry would be the next Shaq.

You can guide intensity and its as valuable a trait as raw talent itself. If it wasnt Ron Artest would be out of the league.

3 years of being surrounded by chaos and retardation at every level in the organization.

I hope he's here long enough to see it turn around
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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7/15/2009  1:49 PM
4 years. poor nate. nate and lee are both high character, quality guys. the problem is that they are best players on our team instead of the great supporting players they should be.
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McK1
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7/15/2009  1:54 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Cosmic:

we just have to be realistic about his attitude and how he plays and how that could translate to winning

highly enthusiastic, never giving up, leave it all out on the floor...yep sounds like a big loser!

can him!

enthusiasm, never giving up, and every other 'good' quality can be WORTHLESS if it is misguided.

Knicks just need to hire somebody with a "winning brain"to help Nate reach his full potential

I suggest bringing in Karrine "Superhead" Steffans as a motivational coach
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Rookie
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7/15/2009  2:04 PM
Posted by fishmike:
And rookie.. if he thinks he's Kobe or Wade why hasnt his agent demanded the $10-$12mm a year Lee is asking for? Has he even asked for anything? All the guy has said is we wants to play basketball for the Knicks.

I think we can agree that he has a better agent than D. Lee
Martice
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7/15/2009  2:05 PM

enthusiasm, never giving up, and every other 'good' quality can be WORTHLESS if it is misguided.

And misguided potential star players reflects leadership.
Cosmic
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7/15/2009  2:05 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by Cosmic:

we just have to be realistic about his attitude and how he plays and how that could translate to winning

highly enthusiastic, never giving up, leave it all out on the floor...yep sounds like a big loser!

can him!



Relax....and actually absorb the entire post before going nuts on me.

Posted by orangeblobman:

enthusiasm, never giving up, and every other 'good' quality can be WORTHLESS if it is misguided.

Exactly my point.

Again, I like Nate...but I just can't stand the attitude problems and the far too many selfish on the court situations and you can see how it just ruins everything he does well.

I like to retain him if he comes cheaply enough and would love for him to be one of our bench guys for a long time as we build a winning team.

I'm not so sure that's what he wants however - both monetarily and in terms of role.

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I am really curious to know what Nate should do differently to change the perception of him around here
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