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Why don't the Knicks give Marcus Williams a
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BRIGGS
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7/15/2009  2:33 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

I've always been a Marcus fan. I thought we should have drafted him during the Balkman year, blah, blah, blah. I think he went south in NJ when he/they tried to change who he is as a player. In college he was a pass first PG that ran the offense better than any PG in college basketball. Suddenly he gets to the pros and Jersey has him playing the 2 guard next to JKidd. Sorry but he isn't a 2 guard and there are more talented scorers in the D league. But if he can get back to being who he really is, I think he has the talent to not only be in the league but to one day earn a starting spot.

Unfortunately I also know a lot about him (you can see some of it in his career trajectory) and he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life. If he has success will he do it again? Hopefully he has grown up. If so, I think he has the talent to be a player in the league.

Should the Knicks sign him. I would not be opposed to it. Low money for a guy with potential would not be a bad idea but.........Unfortunately the Knicks are still in a precarious position. The reason it will take longer to build here is because we are in the middle of a cultural shift. Unfortunately we are in a position where we need to find veterans that can lead. Does that mean we can't bring in a guy like Marcus? No. But signing to a multi year contract based on summer league play is probably not a good idea.

My guess is I know inside of Uconn just a tad more than you and while Marcus did a couple of stupid things at school--no one there dislikes him and no one gives him a bad word--not even JC--and if he deserved one--he would get it. The one problem Marcus has had was training his body and eating right and from the looks of things he has that in good shape. Remember he was hurt the last part of his first year and it took a year to get over it.
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Bippity10
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7/15/2009  2:34 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bippity10:

I've always been a Marcus fan. I thought we should have drafted him during the Balkman year, blah, blah, blah. I think he went south in NJ when he/they tried to change who he is as a player. In college he was a pass first PG that ran the offense better than any PG in college basketball. Suddenly he gets to the pros and Jersey has him playing the 2 guard next to JKidd. Sorry but he isn't a 2 guard and there are more talented scorers in the D league. But if he can get back to being who he really is, I think he has the talent to not only be in the league but to one day earn a starting spot.

Unfortunately I also know a lot about him (you can see some of it in his career trajectory) and he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life. If he has success will he do it again? Hopefully he has grown up. If so, I think he has the talent to be a player in the league.

Should the Knicks sign him. I would not be opposed to it. Low money for a guy with potential would not be a bad idea but.........Unfortunately the Knicks are still in a precarious position. The reason it will take longer to build here is because we are in the middle of a cultural shift. Unfortunately we are in a position where we need to find veterans that can lead. Does that mean we can't bring in a guy like Marcus? No. But signing to a multi year contract based on summer league play is probably not a good idea.

I dont really consider a mutli year contract paying a player in the 1mm dollar range a mutli year contract. It's a fluid contract with very small NBA $ that can be moved at will. Why would I offer him two years with a third year option--because multiple teams are going to move in soon enough.
It's strategy of what you want on your bench--I dont want Sene's if I can get Marcus Williams's.
I really believe MW can help this team and be a rotation player--thats pretty good for a mm.

If we ended up spending 1mm per on Marcus/ Almond/ a Leo Lyons--you have 3 young players who can fill the back of the bench at a very minimal cost but can actually play NBA basketball. Thats a strategy to manage the cap. With the cap going down next year--you have to have 5 guys making 1mm or less but they cant be guys who cant play--they have to be quality depth with upside.

Briggs,Marcus fell out of favor in GS because he was a %#&^! He's worked hard this offseason, but has also been in at least 1 incident that I know of in the past 3 months. Now again, I like Marcus and would like to take a chance on him but.........We unfortunately are in a position where we need guys with proven character and some leadership. We can't afford to sign a guy for 3 years and then after a year of success he's in trouble again, and we have to buy him out etc. That's going to prevent a guy like Marcus from getting a contract with us. Someone will take a chance on him, and maybe he figures it out and does well, but NY is probably going to miss out on this one.

But who knows, maybe they take a shot, but I understand if they don't.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 15-07-2009 2:35 PM]
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BRIGGS
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7/15/2009  2:39 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Great point about the small contracts Briggs. With that in mind if he would sign for that amount it's a win win situation. Not sure about his outside shot, but he can distribute the ball and that is what is important. If his head is on straight he might be a very very good orchestrator for this offense. The guy can really pass the ball.

Thats what I would do 3-4 young guys at 1mm per and 2 vets at the minimum--but ballers like Matt Barnes etc.. guys who can play basketball and not scrubs. The young guys have to be able to play now if needed and you just look around opportunistically for two vets for the min.

that way you always have several fluid contracts and you dont get into paying #13 man on the bench 5.8mm a year.
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JayNYC
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7/15/2009  2:48 PM
Ummmm No!
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Bippity10
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7/15/2009  2:48 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Bippity10:

I've always been a Marcus fan. I thought we should have drafted him during the Balkman year, blah, blah, blah. I think he went south in NJ when he/they tried to change who he is as a player. In college he was a pass first PG that ran the offense better than any PG in college basketball. Suddenly he gets to the pros and Jersey has him playing the 2 guard next to JKidd. Sorry but he isn't a 2 guard and there are more talented scorers in the D league. But if he can get back to being who he really is, I think he has the talent to not only be in the league but to one day earn a starting spot.

Unfortunately I also know a lot about him (you can see some of it in his career trajectory) and he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life. If he has success will he do it again? Hopefully he has grown up. If so, I think he has the talent to be a player in the league.

Should the Knicks sign him. I would not be opposed to it. Low money for a guy with potential would not be a bad idea but.........Unfortunately the Knicks are still in a precarious position. The reason it will take longer to build here is because we are in the middle of a cultural shift. Unfortunately we are in a position where we need to find veterans that can lead. Does that mean we can't bring in a guy like Marcus? No. But signing to a multi year contract based on summer league play is probably not a good idea.

My guess is I know inside of Uconn just a tad more than you and while Marcus did a couple of stupid things at school--no one there dislikes him and no one gives him a bad word--not even JC--and if he deserved one--he would get it. The one problem Marcus has had was training his body and eating right and from the looks of things he has that in good shape. Remember he was hurt the last part of his first year and it took a year to get over it.

Okay, number one this isn't a competition regarding who knows more about what. I don't get into that, that is your game. I know what I know, and I say what I know and that is it, there are no competitions. I don't care if you are Jim Calhoun or freaking Marcus Williams himself, I say what I know. I never said people hated him, and I actually said that I LIKED HIM. Again, this isn't an argument about him being talented or dedicated to getting better, or being liked. He obviously put in work in the offseason and as I said before I think he has the talent to one day start in this league. This isn't about that. This is a conversation about the status of the Knicks as an organization. We unfortunately are in a position where we can't afford to take chances on guys that have had issues with motivation in the past. You and I may want them to, but the reality is the reality. I don't anticipate us signing a Marcus Williams to a 3 year contract because he had a good summer league game. Now, if he dominates for 6 games I can see him getting a camp invite or a 1 year deal to prove himself, but I don't see anything longer.
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kam77
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7/15/2009  2:53 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life.

self-handicapper
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
JayNYC
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7/15/2009  2:55 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Bippity10:

he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life.

self-handicapper

lmfao.. this post is hilarious! Please continue..
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kam77
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7/15/2009  3:01 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:

why not give him a laptop?

lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Marv
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7/15/2009  3:08 PM
Posted by JayNYC:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Bippity10:

he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life.

self-handicapper

lmfao.. this post is hilarious! Please continue..

self-saboteur
Cosmic
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7/15/2009  3:15 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Great point about the small contracts Briggs. With that in mind if he would sign for that amount it's a win win situation. Not sure about his outside shot, but he can distribute the ball and that is what is important. If his head is on straight he might be a very very good orchestrator for this offense. The guy can really pass the ball.

People have to remember we are barely able to sign a max FA in 2010 as we stand right now. These "small contract" additions... Almond, Sene, Crawford, Williams... takes us out of a MAX FA signing.\

Lee and Nate cap holds are at least 11.2M total - on top of our already committed 26-27M in salary for 2010-2011 puts us as just barely able to afford 1 max contract.

So if Lee and Nate (QOs) and Jeffries and Curry all stay - we actually DONT have room for even this minimum contract additions. Given that I found it curious we were looking at Kidd and Hill. Their signings would have taken us right out of the LeBron sweepstakes unless something was done THIS year with the aforementioned players.
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Bippity10
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7/15/2009  3:15 PM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by JayNYC:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Bippity10:

he tends to be a self sabotager(is that a word) in many areas of his life.

self-handicapper

lmfao.. this post is hilarious! Please continue..

self-saboteur

who asked you?
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Ira
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7/15/2009  3:39 PM
If we give out contracts to any of the players in summer league who are trying to make a team, they should be one year contracts.
NYKBocker
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7/15/2009  4:17 PM
wedgie?
knicks1248
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7/15/2009  4:28 PM
I agree with bip..no one should want to sign a SL stand out aka roberson. Training camp should be the real gage..6 games doest warrant a healthy pay day especially for player of his status
ES
Paladin55
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7/15/2009  7:52 PM
Didn't we have a chance (as did many teams) to sign him to one of those 10 day contracts at the end of last season? I would have taken a chance on him then, and we could have used that time to see his game and decide if we wanted to give him a shot with us this summer.

We probably should have taken him instead of Balkman, too, even though we can now see (hindsight is always 20/20) that it might have been a mistake at that time.

If he has changed his life and is in good enough shape to compete, I don't see why he can't be a rotation player in this league.
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Cosmic
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7/15/2009  8:19 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

I agree with bip..no one should want to sign a SL stand out aka roberson. Training camp should be the real gage..6 games doest warrant a healthy pay day especially for player of his status

Roberschit wasn't even a SL standout he was signed before he even played because he was lights out in a pre-SL practice!

This year, from what Walsh had to say today (check the forum for the interview link) it sounds like Almond has a real shot to be signed and probably WILL be signed. Walsh said he tried to trade for Almond last season but Utah's rash of injuries put that chance away.

Walsh won't touch a guy like Marcus Williams though. No worries there.
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BRIGGS
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7/17/2009  10:47 AM
Marcus Williams has been better than any of the drafted picks in this SL. He is good enough[and only 23] to be a rotational NBA player at a position of need for the Knicks for cheap. We don't have a barrier to entry to acquyire him--it will simply take a 2 year 2mm+ contract with a 3rd year option--and why not he's has played like a lotto pick--this is a discount. We can sit and beg Andre Miller to play for us for 1 year for 6mm and when he finally juices us--we are stuck at peg 1. I said for the Knick to pick up Anthony Morrow last summer--how did that turn out? Think we couldve used him?

Simply pick up the phone--offer the guy 2 years locked with a 3 year team option if he takes it now.
What exactly is my downside? The Knicks are slow because we have a 67 year old GM.
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martin
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7/17/2009  10:54 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Marcus Williams has been better than any of the drafted picks in this SL. He is good enough[and only 23] to be a rotational NBA player at a position of need for the Knicks for cheap. We don't have a barrier to entry to acquyire him--it will simply take a 2 year 2mm+ contract with a 3rd year option--and why not he's has played like a lotto pick--this is a discount. We can sit and beg Andre Miller to play for us for 1 year for 6mm and when he finally juices us--we are stuck at peg 1. I said for the Knick to pick up Anthony Morrow last summer--how did that turn out? Think we couldve used him?

Simply pick up the phone--offer the guy 2 years locked with a 3 year team option if he takes it now.
What exactly is my downside? The Knicks are slow because we have a 67 year old GM.

Knicks just acquired a guy who has a GREAT work ethic and has shown that he can run the team as a 3 guard. He also plays both ends of the court.

Remind me again why they should give someone else with a not-so-good history a guaranteed contract?

I think Walsh is trying to change the culture of the team, and without some strong vets on there right now, adding a guy like Marcus ain't gonna ever happen. Guys like Balkman were jettisoned for a reason.
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fishmike
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7/17/2009  11:01 AM
great. We just signed a 23 year old cast off with an attitude problem to come in and lead a team of young players (Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, Hill) a group of guys in possible transition (Curry, Lee, Nate) and veterans in walk years who will all certainly want to get paid next year (Hughes, Harrington, Duhon, Darko).

Briggs, I am assuming you have never held a management type of position, but perhaps you have heard the phrase "being set up for success."

That is the WORST, possible thing you could do to this group. What they need is a stablizing presence. There is a reason DW has focused on Grant Hill and Dre Miller.

what is Marcus Williams going to add to that group next year? He has not shown himself to be a good NBA player or a good teammate.

This is NOT the situation or the team for a guy with baggage to come in and prove himself.

Terrible choice.
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TheGame
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7/17/2009  11:04 AM
Marcus is a guy who has shown little commitment. He is often out of shape, plays no defense, and is too shot-happy. He has great court vision and when he puts his mind to it, he can run a team as well as anyone. But the only reason he is playing well is because he is trying to get the next contract. You give him a three year deal and he is going to coast for three years until his next contract year. Why bring another prima donna player to the Knicks. I would rather rely on Douglas, who is showing that he is committed to being a pg.
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