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The market has been set
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martin
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7/10/2009  11:55 PM
POR has talked about Lee for a year and a half...... and then they offer Milsap a deal.

That is the market.
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King1
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7/11/2009  12:01 AM
I am saying deserves what those three players received.
kam77
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7/11/2009  12:05 AM
"Deserve ain't got nothing to do with it"


lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
martin
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7/11/2009  12:10 AM
Posted by King1:

I am saying deserves what those three players received.

Lee deserves what he has earned. Isiah is not in the House any more.

BTW, Varajevo didn't get $50. More like $36.
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Moonangie
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7/11/2009  12:16 AM
I think 4yr/$30mil is the absolute max we should offer. I would go even lower, say to 4yr/$26mil, with first 2 years guaranteed, player option for 4th year, front loaded something like:


  • Year one: $8mil

  • Year two: $4mil

  • Year three: $6mil

  • Year four: $8mil



Not sure if that's allowed, but I think so.

[Edited by - Moonangie on 07-11-2009 12:19 AM]
EnySpree
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7/11/2009  12:26 AM
Posted by King1:

I am saying deserves what those three players received.

Lee deserves what the market dictates...thats the genius of not being the dickhead that sets the market...but ignoring David Lee the Knicks have the upper hand....

Don't forget Charlie Villenueva and Bass....I could argue that even Bass is better than Lee!!! Especially in the sense that its better to pat Bass what he got to get close to or equal to what you would get from Lee.

Bringing me to the Knicks...the qualifying offer is even too much for David at this point...The Knicks are already gonna pay a rookie deal to a guy that is probably gonna be better than Lee before long...why pay Lee to be replaced...and then be impossible to trade with nobody needing his services????

David is ****ed...he needs to fire his agent after this. Utah, Portland and OKC may be the few spots left...

btw...I bet that Memphis trade looked mighty fine now huh?
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EnySpree
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7/11/2009  12:29 AM
Posted by King1:

You have Varajevo getting 6 years 50 million. Bargnani getting 5 yrs 50 million and Millsap 4 year 36 million. I would think now they have a starting point with Lee and what is fair market. Lee is better than all three of these players so saying he gets 6 or 7 million is way below market value

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BasketballJones
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7/11/2009  12:35 AM
Posted by martin:

i am allanfaned

Congratulations
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DrAlphaeus
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7/11/2009  12:44 AM
Times are hard all over the league, looks like the Princes of the Hardcourt aren't immune from a devaluation of their talents in an open market, regardless of the power of Player's Association. Maybe we'll get a strike-shortened season and Gallinari will use lucky number 8 to channel the slashing power of Latrell Spreewell! Jeffries will become the second coming of H20 and Darko will don No. 2 and give us an unlikely late game 4-point play. GO NEW YORK GO NEW YORK GO!

[Edited by - DrAlphaeus on 07-11-2009 12:45 AM]
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nyk4ever
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7/11/2009  1:47 AM
Posted by martin:

POR has talked about Lee for a year and a half...... and then they offer Milsap a deal.

That is the market.

LOL!!!!
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Bonn1997
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7/11/2009  6:49 AM
Oh and Chris Anderson: 5 years, $26 mil. I know you're gonna tell us Lee is trillion times better than Chris Anderson, though, but you could have at least included him for the sake of being fair. CA is better than Varejeau, who you included. Shawn Marion and Lamar Odom are unsigned too. Let's see what they get. Let's see who teams pursue 1st, 2nd, and 3rd among those three.
Ira
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7/11/2009  7:16 AM
Varejao's contract has undisclosed incentive's. Millsap's contract is listed at $32-36 million. We'll see what it really is when the details come out. And, by the way, Millsap's game is as good as Lee's. He does play defense.

Also, Villanueva's contract is about $7 million a year and he's also as good as Lee.
Bonn1997
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7/11/2009  7:37 AM
Bargnani: 5 yrs, 50 mil
Varejao: 5 yrs, 42 mil
Milsap: 4 yrs, 32-36 mil
Villanueva: 5 yrs, 35 mil
Lee's offer: 4 yrs, 32 mil
Anderson: 5 yrs, 26 mil

What I take from that list is that the market is in the 25 to 35 mil range for solid, role player PF/Cs, and Bargs' and Varejao's GMs simply made mistakes.
mattshaw78
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7/11/2009  8:07 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Bargnani: 5 yrs, 50 mil
Varejao: 5 yrs, 42 mil
Milsap: 4 yrs, 32-36 mil
Villanueva: 5 yrs, 35 mil
Lee's offer: 4 yrs, 32 mil
Anderson: 5 yrs, 26 mil

What I take from that list is that the market is in the 25 to 35 mil range for solid, role player PF/Cs, and Bargs' and Varejao's GMs simply made mistakes.

I would take Villanueva. Feel sorry for the kid to be traded left and right to other teams. He is a decent player, he just look like he has a tumor on his face.

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Paladin55
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7/11/2009  8:18 AM
From today's MY Times- The article was also about Hill and Kidd, but this is the part on Lee:
Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress on contract talks. He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee. But no team appears willing to meet that price, and Lee is a restricted free agent, which gives the Knicks leverage.

“We don’t really stand anywhere,” Walsh said of the talks, “because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn’t do that.”

Walsh said he had not made a formal offer to Lee, “because it wouldn’t do any good.”

“I’ll start over again,” he added, “and see if we can get to a reasonable number.”

At least at this point, it looks like Lee's agent is still operating as if Lee has multiple suitors, and that $12 M is a starting point, and he may be willing to drop to $10 M through negotiations.

Walsh is throwing out an $8 M offer based on what he told the times- will Lee take that?

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-11-2009 08:21 AM]
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Bonn1997
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7/11/2009  8:20 AM
Posted by Paladin55:

From today's MY Times- The article was also about Hill and Kidd, but this is the part on Lee:
Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress on contract talks. He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee. But no team appears willing to meet that price, and Lee is a restricted free agent, which gives the Knicks leverage.

“We don’t really stand anywhere,” Walsh said of the talks, “because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn’t do that.”

Walsh said he had not made a formal offer to Lee, “because it wouldn’t do any good.”

“I’ll start over again,” he added, “and see if we can get to a reasonable number.”

At least at this point, it looks like Lee's agent is still operating as if Lee has multiple suitors, and that $12 M is a starting point, and he may be willing to drop to $10 M through negotiations.
I guess Lee's agent disagrees with King1 on the market being set, since he's asking for more than all those other players got.
Caseloads
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7/11/2009  8:55 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Paladin55:

From today's MY Times- The article was also about Hill and Kidd, but this is the part on Lee:
Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress on contract talks. He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee. But no team appears willing to meet that price, and Lee is a restricted free agent, which gives the Knicks leverage.

“We don’t really stand anywhere,” Walsh said of the talks, “because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn’t do that.”

Walsh said he had not made a formal offer to Lee, “because it wouldn’t do any good.”

“I’ll start over again,” he added, “and see if we can get to a reasonable number.”

At least at this point, it looks like Lee's agent is still operating as if Lee has multiple suitors, and that $12 M is a starting point, and he may be willing to drop to $10 M through negotiations.
I guess Lee's agent disagrees with King1 on the market being set, since he's asking for more than all those other players got.

all he can do is ask
nyk4ever
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7/11/2009  9:22 AM
http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/60494/20090711/walsh_lee_wants_large_number/

Walsh: Lee Wants 'Large Number'
Jul 11, 2009 7:41 AM EST

Donnie Walsh said negotiations with David Lee's agent have not moved forward because his contract demands were too high.

"We don't really stand anywhere," Walsh said, "because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn't do that."

No formal has been made to Lee by the Knicks "because it wouldn't do any good," said Walsh. "I'll start over again and see if we can get to a reasonable number."

After losing out on Jason Kidd and Grant Hill, Walsh will explore the team's next options.

"Now we're going to sit down and discuss which way to go," Walsh said. "And I have some thoughts."
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Bonn1997
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7/11/2009  9:46 AM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Paladin55:

From today's MY Times- The article was also about Hill and Kidd, but this is the part on Lee:
Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress on contract talks. He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee. But no team appears willing to meet that price, and Lee is a restricted free agent, which gives the Knicks leverage.

“We don’t really stand anywhere,” Walsh said of the talks, “because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn’t do that.”

Walsh said he had not made a formal offer to Lee, “because it wouldn’t do any good.”

“I’ll start over again,” he added, “and see if we can get to a reasonable number.”

At least at this point, it looks like Lee's agent is still operating as if Lee has multiple suitors, and that $12 M is a starting point, and he may be willing to drop to $10 M through negotiations.
I guess Lee's agent disagrees with King1 on the market being set, since he's asking for more than all those other players got.

all he can do is ask
What he should do is ask for something reasonable. Pretty soon Lee is gonna end up playing for the QO, which from Lee's perspective is the worst possible scenario because it gives him the least guaranteed money.
Paladin55
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7/11/2009  9:58 AM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Paladin55:

From today's MY Times- The article was also about Hill and Kidd, but this is the part on Lee:
Lee’s agent, Mark Bartelstein, has expressed frustration at the lack of progress on contract talks. He is seeking a deal that averages $12 million a year, which is at least $4 million more than the Knicks are comfortable spending on Lee. But no team appears willing to meet that price, and Lee is a restricted free agent, which gives the Knicks leverage.

“We don’t really stand anywhere,” Walsh said of the talks, “because in the case of David, he wants a large number and I really couldn’t do that.”

Walsh said he had not made a formal offer to Lee, “because it wouldn’t do any good.”

“I’ll start over again,” he added, “and see if we can get to a reasonable number.”

At least at this point, it looks like Lee's agent is still operating as if Lee has multiple suitors, and that $12 M is a starting point, and he may be willing to drop to $10 M through negotiations.
I guess Lee's agent disagrees with King1 on the market being set, since he's asking for more than all those other players got.

all he can do is ask

For Lee's agent it is coming to the point where he (and Lee??) may be in a "face saving" mode, where they have to stick to the 12M number and perhaps only budge if they can make it seem that they are doing so for the good of the team- in essence, making it seem that Lee's acceptance of 8M is a selfless act on his part. Lee can actually do this himself if he fires his agent, hires a new guy, and Walsh agrees to $8.5M with some kind of team option figured in. Lee gets a legit contract for his ability/market value and seems to do it for the team, and Walsh has the option to look at things at the end of Lee's contract and decide if he wants him that final year, possibly saving him some big bucks.

It is pretty obvious that Walsh is in control here, and that his patience has worked to put Lee and his agent into a corner they never expected to be in. To me, Lee has already lost- now he and his agent should be concerned with damage control and trying to end this as painlessly as possible.

I would still not mind seeing some kind of S&T with Utah- the type that Briggs has suggested. Getting Koufos and our #1 and Boozer, for Lee and Mobley. Don't know how the numbers work out in terms of the league, and caps, and whatever, but something like that would work fine for me if Walsh decides that he does not want to go above 8M with Lee, and Utah is willing to go a little higher.

Might mean the end of Lee's relationship with his girlfriend, though. Not sure she would want to follow him to Utah.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-11-2009 10:00 AM]
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
The market has been set

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