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you think the knicks match a full MLE offer to nate?
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fishmike
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7/9/2009  12:06 PM
Why cant Douglas back up Nate? Why cant they play together?

Yes... Nate needs to change his style some to fit better with MDA.
Yes I believe that Douglas as partially brought in as an upgrade to Nate (arent they close in age anyway?).

Nate is small but plays very well around the basket.

He also attacks the rim and will create a lot of offensive putbacks for fat Eddie, Hill, Lee and anyone else who follows him to the rim.

Nate isnt perfect but there is plenty of good to focus on and he brings a lot of things to the table. Good if he stays. If he walks I hope we get something back.
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SupremeCommander
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7/9/2009  12:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:

By the way, whoever offers Nate the full MLE is doing so because they think he can run their team. All last year (especially when Duhon was ailing) I was pining for the Knicks to take a 10-15 game look at Nate running the PG. I seem to recall Nate having some monster games the couple of times Duhon was out.

All I hear is the same argument... "Nate is a SG."

So was Stephen Curry.

I know Nate is a mental case but the guy can play.

What is the downside? If you start Nate at PG next year and he's making MLE I can guarentee you he will be averaging 20/7/5/2 and be a very hot commodity for a lot of teams by Christmas.

Or god forbid we keep him cause he can play.

I know he can play but I'd prefer to not have to rely on Nate. He was one of the best players on a lotto team. He needs to go to a place where he can excel in a supporting role. I'd rather distribute his responsibilities around the roster, get Chandler more involved, and whoever between Gallo/Hill/Douglas earns the responsibility. I also think Hughes came on at the end of last season and will thrive in 's offense because Hughes thrived with Eddie Jordan
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crzymdups
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7/9/2009  12:07 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Why cant Douglas back up Nate? Why cant they play together?

Yes... Nate needs to change his style some to fit better with MDA.
Yes I believe that Douglas as partially brought in as an upgrade to Nate (arent they close in age anyway?).

Nate is small but plays very well around the basket.

He also attacks the rim and will create a lot of offensive putbacks for fat Eddie, Hill, Lee and anyone else who follows him to the rim.

Nate isnt perfect but there is plenty of good to focus on and he brings a lot of things to the table. Good if he stays. If he walks I hope we get something back.

nate is super skilled - but he's undersized, a ballhog, destroys the flow d'antoni wants in the offense, etc. i dunno.
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SupremeCommander
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7/9/2009  12:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BigC:
Posted by djsunyc:

if the knicks were so high on keeping nate, i don't think they shell out $4 mil to get toney douglas.
The thing is when the Knicks bought that pick was Toney Douglas the target? Or was it another player that got pickup earlier in the draft? Remember we knew about the Knicks buying that pick from the Lakers way before draft night.

[Edited by - BigC on 07-09-2009 12:05 PM]

Toney Douglas was the target

Walsh said as much and said he had a buyer for the pick Douglas wasn't available so

+1
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BigC
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7/9/2009  12:09 PM
Also I am one of the biggest Toney Douglas fans. However, until he steps on an NBA court in the regular season you can't say he is going to be Nate's replacement. Right now Toney Douglas is unproven talent in the NBA. It will not be that easy to replace Nate as people think. It's not like you are talking about Malik Rose or Charlie Ward.
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EnySpree
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7/9/2009  12:13 PM
Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.
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franco12
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7/9/2009  12:16 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Nate's late game play last year was the difference between us winning 20 games and the 30 whatever we won.

He's gotten better every year and is the pefect 6th man because his scoring is unstoppable and he's better than any other backup PG in the league. He also gets a ton of rebounds and gets TOUGH rebounds in the paint in the midst of opposing frontcourts.

He shoots a good %. He gets steals and creates things with his hustle.
He's improved his retardation every year.

If he just scored I would say no, but he sets up a lot of shots for other players and gets a lot of tough rebounds and steals.

I think he's a player that will be great on a good team

Best line!
crzymdups
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7/9/2009  12:16 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.

totally agree. i think jamal and marbury were very bad influences on nate.

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BigC
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7/9/2009  12:16 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by fishmike:

By the way, whoever offers Nate the full MLE is doing so because they think he can run their team. All last year (especially when Duhon was ailing) I was pining for the Knicks to take a 10-15 game look at Nate running the PG. I seem to recall Nate having some monster games the couple of times Duhon was out.

All I hear is the same argument... "Nate is a SG."

So was Stephen Curry.

I know Nate is a mental case but the guy can play.

What is the downside? If you start Nate at PG next year and he's making MLE I can guarentee you he will be averaging 20/7/5/2 and be a very hot commodity for a lot of teams by Christmas.

Or god forbid we keep him cause he can play.

I know he can play but I'd prefer to not have to rely on Nate. He was one of the best players on a lotto team. He needs to go to a place where he can excel in a supporting role. I'd rather distribute his responsibilities around the roster, get Chandler more involved, and whoever between Gallo/Hill/Douglas earns the responsibility. I also think Hughes came on at the end of last season and will thrive in 's offense because Hughes thrived with Eddie Jordan
I think Hughes and Nate would be a good combination. They both can get steals that lead to the fastbreak. Plus they both can handle the ball as well as pass.
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franco12
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7/9/2009  12:18 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by EnySpree:

Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.

totally agree. i think jamal and marbury were very bad influences on nate.

I'm not sure Nate was a pouty negative influence on the team.

I think Nate always wanted to win - is a bit selfish but tries - and brought the kind of energy that was/is contagious.

SupremeCommander
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7/9/2009  12:18 PM
Posted by BigC:

Also I am one of the biggest Toney Douglas fans. However, until he steps on an NBA court in the regular season you can't say he is going to be Nate's replacement. Right now Toney Douglas is unproven talent in the NBA. It will not be that easy to replace Nate as people think. It's not like you are talking about Malik Rose or Charlie Ward.

I agree. He was drafted to be Nate's eventual replacement. I think Nate will be on the team next year, but after signing the QO
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BigC
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7/9/2009  12:21 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.
Good point. However I do see Nate rallying his team when he is playing and on the bench. Whenever someone scores he is the first one up. When Chandler scores or was feeling down you see Nate talking to him. Look at any old Knicks game with Nate and you will see him trying to pump guys up. When a team loses it is tough. As a matter of fact I can't think of any other player that supports other players on this team more than Nate.
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franco12
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7/9/2009  12:22 PM
The way I always think of Nate is he is a luxury item on a 30 win team - short G with speed that changes pace of game, plays some D, has impact & can score.

With our present roster & situation, he is a bit like owning a porsche when your house has just been foreclosed on & the worse part was it wasn't in the best neighborhood.

yes, he has value, he's a good player. But, we have other, more pressing needs that maybe deserve more attention.

It does come down to a question of $.

However, I am not thinking we do not land a FA in 2010, and we need to start building the team with what we currently have, and pieces we might get either in the draft of in FA/MLE signings.
EnySpree
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7/9/2009  12:22 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by EnySpree:

Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.

totally agree. i think jamal and marbury were very bad influences on nate.

You can't stop there with Jamal and Marbs....Eddy Curry??? Jerome??? Francis??? I mean you can basically plug every player thats been on the roster since Nate and Lee were drafted. Even Malik Rose...cuz I swear that anonomous player that kept getting quoted was him. Cancerous organization lead by Isiah Thomas, smh....

Getting past that...the Donnie Era has been about cleaning it up and even though Nate's talent is off the chain...he will probably take a "L" in order to restore respect and accountability to thats been missing in the locker room for 10 years now.
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crzymdups
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7/9/2009  12:26 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by EnySpree:

Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.

totally agree. i think jamal and marbury were very bad influences on nate.

You can't stop there with Jamal and Marbs....Eddy Curry??? Jerome??? Francis??? I mean you can basically plug every player thats been on the roster since Nate and Lee were drafted. Even Malik Rose...cuz I swear that anonomous player that kept getting quoted was him. Cancerous organization lead by Isiah Thomas, smh....

Getting past that...the Donnie Era has been about cleaning it up and even though Nate's talent is off the chain...he will probably take a "L" in order to restore respect and accountability to thats been missing in the locker room for 10 years now.

agree again. all that and you still don't like duhon?
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EnySpree
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7/9/2009  12:27 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by EnySpree:

Nate isn't a team guy....he doesn't help to rally the troops when the pressure is tight...he aides in sucking the energy out of the team with negativity...but the thing with Nate is he can play no matter if the team is flat or not. He's single handedly brought the Knicks out of holes since he's been a Knick...

I hate to bring Marbs up, but if the Knicks had a better verteran ahead of Nate from the jump, maybe some good team habits would have rubbed off.

Thats why I applaud Donnie for trying to get Kidd and Grant Hill....Knicks need the leadership on the court and in the locker room.

totally agree. i think jamal and marbury were very bad influences on nate.

I'm not sure Nate was a pouty negative influence on the team.

I think Nate always wanted to win - is a bit selfish but tries - and brought the kind of energy that was/is contagious.

He doesn't have the personality to uplift guys when they are playing bad...if his teamates suck he will shout out, "what are you doing!!?!?!?!?" and other things that add to the frustration. Veteran guys won't do that....but thats nates personality. Like I said he needs someone other than the coach to get in his face about it. Someone who isn't a total bum like Q-rich and Malik rose, smh...
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BigC
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7/9/2009  12:29 PM
Here is the thing, if it is about getting just character guys why did Walsh sign Duhon who had record in Duke and on the Bulls of having a drinking problem? If it is about just getting character guys why was the target Jason Kidd who beat his wife? Nate has yet to have any off the court problems. Nate has not done anything more than want Mason and Starks did on the court.
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crzymdups
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7/9/2009  12:32 PM
Posted by BigC:

Here is the thing, if it is about getting just character guys why did Walsh sign Duhon who had record in Duke and on the Bulls of having a drinking problem? If it is about just getting character guys why was the target Jason Kidd who beat his wife? Nate has yet to have any off the court problems. Nate has not done anything more than want Mason and Starks did on the court.

maybe it's not as much "character" as a way of playing on the court. jkidd had whatever personal problems, but he makes players around him better and he defends and he plays hard. duhon makes others better.

nate is a good kid, but he is selfish with the ball and doesnt make any teammates better. that's why he'll never be a PG. he's a tiny tiny SG. this isn't about his character - it's about how he fits the team and he really doesnt. he fits wth some team that needs a gunner off the bench. lakers or denver would be perfect
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Pharzeone
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7/9/2009  12:37 PM
If Nate is such a bad influence, then how can you add Al Harrington to your team and think that it is an improvement. Dude did major damage in Atlanta to the team's psyche and was one of the biggest negative influences on Josh Smith. I myself rather have Nate on a team than Harrington who directly cost you games like hanging on a rim for his personal gratifications not once but twice in a season. I don't trust Harrington hanging around Chandler and Gallinari to be honest.
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daddynel
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7/9/2009  12:41 PM
At the end of the season it was said that nate was worth 6/7mil. Why all of a sudden is he not worth mle money? Silly me, actually thinking my wife is the only one who changes her mind like underwear.
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you think the knicks match a full MLE offer to nate?
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