Posted by McK1:

Posted by fishmike:

I have been one of Lee's biggest fans and supporters over the years. I think his production is valuable. I think his passing is underrated and makes things easier on other players. I think he's got a great hands and runs the floor like a deer. I thought the Knicks should have looked to move him and Nate last Jan when their value was at its highest, or commit to keeping them.

I did sour on Lee some as the season went on. Losing takes its toll, I have played on losing teams and it changes your approach at times, thats just human nature. Many times we have seen career "losers" really change when they were in better siutations. Chris Webber comes to mind.

But Lee totally quit in the 2nd half last year, and I know the coaching staff took notice. Cant count the number of times I saw Dantoni throw his hands up in disgust because Lee just gave up on defense or didnt try.

Its one thing to be a poor defender. Allan Houston was a poor defender, but his effort was always there. Lee doesnt give that and thats a warning flag. I could see that changing as the team becomes better but if you asking for big money you need to put out big effort.

I think the 4 year $32mm number is perfect. Thats 6.5, 7.5, 8.5 and 9.5

If he wants to hold out for that 5 year $55mm deal get it somewhere else.

how can you criticize anyone's defense when Mike D's philosophy on defending the ball - don't do anything that will decrease the amount of game possessions - is totally absurd

defensive playbook in a nutshell: don't foul
make the opponent shoot jumpshots
if they get in the paint let them score

again we can't take fouls and we want the pace high so no
pressing
trapping
doubling as a strategy

opponents gotta shoot quick so we can get the ball back

in all likelihood going for the block is probably forbade as well cause you can still get whistled for body contact.

he totally castrates his team on the defensive end and then folks wonder why lee defends the paint with "jazz hands"

Lee's defense has been the same and he's only been with MDA for one year.

You couldnt be more wrong about MDA's defense. The only part you got right was to force jumpers. The idea being to ignite the running game. Part of the reason MDA soured on Lee late (and Nate early) was their total disregard or inability to get his defensive scheme.

Force jumpers, push the ball, take more higher % shots than your opponent. If you do that with enough volume the %s say you should score more points. Not picking up your man or your arms doesnt fit into that scheme. Sorry... nice try

Posted by King1:

Then why did MDA play him the whole game? Where did MDA say he was unhappy with Lee. You want someone to show you where Amare was a malcontent and they didnt get along then show me where MDA didnt like Lee

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by King1:

I agree his is a bad defender but go back and list all the frontcourt players that scored 20 a game vs the perimeter and it is a joke what perimeter men killed us. Not many bad frontcourt player dropped 28 like Daniels or Mike James back to back 20 per game, Jarrett Jack looked lke Curly Neal against us. Yes you won 32 games 9 more than the previous year and if Lee is there next year you will make the playoffs

where do I say our team defense is Lee's fault? He's part of the problem, not the cause. Agree about the perimeter. Why do you think we spent $4mm on a 24 year old college SG who is 6'2? Cause he was defensive player of the year in his conference thats why. Just for the record I have ALWAYS been in favor of Lee being here and on of his biggest defender agains the stupid arguements that his points and rebounds are just a product of MDAs system.

I think Lee is a good player and should be paid like a good player. Knicks need to be responsible with contracts they give out because Lee isnt in the class that Amare, Dirk, Wade and Lebron are in. Losing Lee for nothing would be a setback, but if that happens its only because he priced himself out, and that money can be spent somewhere else.

Nobody on this team is so great they cant be replaced. This is NOT a group on the cusp of breaking out. We have holes the size of DJ's mom's love canal. Gotta tighten a whole lotta things up

LOL!!!

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by King1:

I agree his is a bad defender but go back and list all the frontcourt players that scored 20 a game vs the perimeter and it is a joke what perimeter men killed us. Not many bad frontcourt player dropped 28 like Daniels or Mike James back to back 20 per game, Jarrett Jack looked lke Curly Neal against us. Yes you won 32 games 9 more than the previous year and if Lee is there next year you will make the playoffs

where do I say our team defense is Lee's fault? He's part of the problem, not the cause. Agree about the perimeter. Why do you think we spent $4mm on a 24 year old college SG who is 6'2? Cause he was defensive player of the year in his conference thats why. Just for the record I have ALWAYS been in favor of Lee being here and on of his biggest defender agains the stupid arguements that his points and rebounds are just a product of MDAs system.

I think Lee is a good player and should be paid like a good player. Knicks need to be responsible with contracts they give out because Lee isnt in the class that Amare, Dirk, Wade and Lebron are in. Losing Lee for nothing would be a setback, but if that happens its only because he priced himself out, and that money can be spent somewhere else.

Nobody on this team is so great they cant be replaced. This is NOT a group on the cusp of breaking out. We have holes the size of DJ's mom's love canal. Gotta tighten a whole lotta things up

LOL!!!

hey.. remove that sig, only I can pick on Mrs DJ.

You know.. we got history and all

Posted by fishmike:

^^ TMS and I'm looking to give anyone else on this squad a 5 year $50mm extension while letting Lee walk.

I love Nate's scoring and still wish we would look at him at PG for some sample of games but oh well. Either way his D sucked too and I'm not giving any of these guys big money till the effort matches

Posted by EnySpree:

bump

Posted by martin:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by fishmike:

Posted by King1:

I agree his is a bad defender but go back and list all the frontcourt players that scored 20 a game vs the perimeter and it is a joke what perimeter men killed us. Not many bad frontcourt player dropped 28 like Daniels or Mike James back to back 20 per game, Jarrett Jack looked lke Curly Neal against us. Yes you won 32 games 9 more than the previous year and if Lee is there next year you will make the playoffs

where do I say our team defense is Lee's fault? He's part of the problem, not the cause. Agree about the perimeter. Why do you think we spent $4mm on a 24 year old college SG who is 6'2? Cause he was defensive player of the year in his conference thats why. Just for the record I have ALWAYS been in favor of Lee being here and on of his biggest defender agains the stupid arguements that his points and rebounds are just a product of MDAs system.

I think Lee is a good player and should be paid like a good player. Knicks need to be responsible with contracts they give out because Lee isnt in the class that Amare, Dirk, Wade and Lebron are in. Losing Lee for nothing would be a setback, but if that happens its only because he priced himself out, and that money can be spent somewhere else.

Nobody on this team is so great they cant be replaced. This is NOT a group on the cusp of breaking out. We have holes the size of DJ's mom's love canal. Gotta tighten a whole lotta things up

LOL!!!

hey.. remove that sig, only I can pick on Mrs DJ.

You know.. we got history and all

you got a history with DJ's mom's love canal?

damn dj reaches 20k posts and fish reveals this to the world?!?!?!? a simple congrats would've sufficed