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if no lebron, would you have supported 2010 plan?


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djsunyc
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let's say lebron is not in town come 2010, would you have supported this plan otherwise?
yes
no
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Bippity10
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7/1/2009  11:52 AM
Posted by fishmike:

I say yes. First of all there are a few other gems to be had in that market. Amare, Dirk and several others. If we swing and miss on a FA we would still have the cap space to take back a player with a big contract. Also I see DW building a winning roster. Its not just 2010 cap space or bust. He drafting and adding players that fit into MDAs system. Two way athletic guys that can run and put up points. Chandler, Douglas, Gallo and Hill is a nice nucleus for an uptempo team. Harrington, Darko, Hughes and Duhon are short term veterans that also fit. We are rebuilding with a plan.

I thought we got good value in this draft and at the worst a pair of core rotation players that fit in the scheme of what we are trying to do.

Knicks will sign someone next summer. Maybe not Lebron or Wade but a good player for sure. Once they have done that they can also add $$$ later in the year or at the deadline as we are still the MSG Knicks backed by Dolan's money. I just hope DW and MDA are here to build for a title and not just another fun team that never breaks round 2.

Agreed, Fish. The plan is sound and like Earl says it carries on beyond 2010. The only question is if DW and MDA can make it work.
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bitty41
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7/1/2009  1:28 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Too many people make solely "outcome-based" evaluations of GMs. All I ask of a GM in any sport is to pick a sensible strategy and to consistently stick to it. Unforeseeable things happen, though. That's life.

i agree with you, but sports is a results based business and 95% of fans think that way also.

Yes, results is what we're after. We'd never get results the way this team was managed previously. You get results by having players that are worth their salaries.


I don't think anyone would advocate for overpaying but when are the "results" going to become a part of the equation. As it stands right now Walsh has been given 2 year free pass where he doesn't have put a winning squad on the floor and I just question how much leeway should he get.
Marv
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7/1/2009  1:30 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Too many people make solely "outcome-based" evaluations of GMs. All I ask of a GM in any sport is to pick a sensible strategy and to consistently stick to it. Unforeseeable things happen, though. That's life.

i agree with you, but sports is a results based business and 95% of fans think that way also.

Yes, results is what we're after. We'd never get results the way this team was managed previously. You get results by having players that are worth their salaries.


I don't think anyone would advocate for overpaying but when are the "results" going to become a part of the equation. As it stands right now Walsh has been given 2 year free pass where he doesn't have put a winning squad on the floor and I just question how much leeway should he get.

i think the leeway should be based on the amount of cap he clears and the performance of the players he's drafted.
Uptown
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7/1/2009  2:25 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

The media has made it about Lebron or bust and some fans have bought into it. It's not Lebron or bust. It's about getting back in the game. Be a player in the free agent market, having short reasonable contracts and adding talent via the draft. In 2010 for the first time in decades we will have a chance to be involved in all 3 ways to build a team. No guarantees that Walsh can pull it off, but I'm not sure there's anything wrong with what he's doing.


Totally agree. The media and some posters here have made it into Lebron or bust. Thats totally not the case. Being under the cap opens up so many options in terms of signing FA's, being able to absorb big contracts and just always being a player in the game if somehting comes up.
BasketballJones
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7/1/2009  2:42 PM
I have faith in Cap'n Zeke (Who is still pulling the strings down in Florida) and his 2029 plan.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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7/1/2009  3:47 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Too many people make solely "outcome-based" evaluations of GMs. All I ask of a GM in any sport is to pick a sensible strategy and to consistently stick to it. Unforeseeable things happen, though. That's life.

i agree with you, but sports is a results based business and 95% of fans think that way also.

Yes, results is what we're after. We'd never get results the way this team was managed previously. You get results by having players that are worth their salaries.


I don't think anyone would advocate for overpaying but when are the "results" going to become a part of the equation. As it stands right now Walsh has been given 2 year free pass where he doesn't have put a winning squad on the floor and I just question how much leeway should he get.

I'm with you Bitty. I think eventually Walsh needs to show results but it's only been one season. I just don't think there was any way it was coming last year or this year. We have to start showing progress but it's going to come slower than we want. We were just too low in the dumps and his young guys haven't had a chance to play yet. Here's the way I see it:

Draft picks
How can we judge his draft picks at this point? Gallinari was injured last year and we have no idea what he will be. If he shows no progress next year then we can judge. If he shows great progress...........The other two draft picks haven't played yet

Free-Agency
Can't judge him here because we weren't a player. Had no money so there was little he could do. He is however making progress towards getting cap space for his stated goal of 2010. I will wait for 2010 to judge him on that. If he fails............

Trades
His current trades were made with a long-range plan in mind. He clearly went after short term contracts that would not eat into his 2010 plan. He was explicit with his plans. He has not lied. He told us what he was going to do and so far is doing it. We all know that the building starts in 2010 and for now it's about positioning(unless a great deal falls in our lap). Until he deviates from the plan, or bombs in 2010 and beyond what am I judging him for? The record? What did we expect our record to be in year one? We can throw out speculation about who he should have gotten but that's all speculation at this point.

Overall
I personally thought it would take at least 2-3 years to clean out the mess and then at that point we would start making real progress. I was under no preconceived notions that we were going to be able to turn Steph, Jamal, Zach and crew into top draft picks or a star that made us better. We are doing what rebuilding teams do adn positioning ourselves to get players that will help us to compete. So far Walsh is on target with what he said he was going to do. It's up to him to make it successful.

Now about winning next year. Like I said personally I didn't see it happening before this year and still don't see it. But let's play make beleive for a second. Let's pretend that Gallinari comes in and shows great potential, Wilson takes another leap forward and Hill finds himself in the upper echelon of rookies(all this could happen) it probably will change the way we view the team and Donnie. They can all bomb as well. But you have to give them time to develop before you can judge.
I just hope that people will like me
toodarkmark
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7/2/2009  1:19 AM
And what. Keep Z Randolph + Jamal Crawford? It could be called a 2014 deal and I still would have traded those two non talents.

MSG and Cap Space is a good combo, but giving up those two is worth it. The only problem seems to be resigning David Lee. Which, for whatever reason, I think will work out.
I don't care what people think. People are stupid. - Charles Barkley
if no lebron, would you have supported 2010 plan?

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