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FA PGs... slim pickings?
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martin
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6/30/2009  3:00 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

If NY offered Felton the full mid I doubt Cha would match. Felton can push the tempo to MDA's preferred pace and he is a good defender.

jumper is still shaky but so is Duhon's Kidds and Rubios. I'm sure he is in the gym right now working on that shot.

Don't think the Knicks will offer anyone but Nash/Kidd the MLE. Felton doesn't justify taking cap room away in 2010.

IMO all the eggs in the Lebron basket isn't sound judgement

I hope someone on Walsh's staff realizes the Cavs can sign a mid level FA this summer and still sign Bosh to a max deal next summer as well. If Lebron opts out they too can sign two max FA's then re-up Lebron.

no one, including Walsh, has said that it's LeBron or nothing. That's a very bad assumption.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that you don't sign a so-so PG and risk not being able to sign 2 max free agents. That's just not sound management.

Felts not Deron or Paul but he is still a good talent at the pg pos. I just hope the FO is doing their due diligence when weighing what superstars will be available vs what talent may also be availiable to build a team

is Felton worth risking over any of the top 15 FA in 2010? doubt it.
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EwingsGlass
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6/30/2009  3:01 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

If NY offered Felton the full mid I doubt Cha would match. Felton can push the tempo to MDA's preferred pace and he is a good defender.

jumper is still shaky but so is Duhon's Kidds and Rubios. I'm sure he is in the gym right now working on that shot.

Don't think the Knicks will offer anyone but Nash/Kidd the MLE. Felton doesn't justify taking cap room away in 2010.

IMO all the eggs in the Lebron basket isn't sound judgement

I hope someone on Walsh's staff realizes the Cavs can sign a mid level FA this summer and still sign Bosh to a max deal next summer as well. If Lebron opts out they too can sign two max FA's then re-up Lebron.

No, if Lebron opts out he will still have a cap hold which will mean they cannot sign two max FAs and then re-sign Lebron. They can get Lebron and another max FA.

But the point is correct, that we really need to dump salary in order to make room for 2 max FAs. That said, I think Kidd at the MLE would make it 2.5 superstars in 2010 (assuming we can make space under the cap).
You know I gonna spin wit it
McK1
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6/30/2009  3:01 PM

31. Why do free agents continue to count against a team's cap?
It closes another loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exceptions. This rule restricts their ability to do that. It doesn't close this loophole completely -- for example, in 2005 Michael Redd's free agent amount was $6 million, even though the Bucks intended to re-sign him for the maximum salary. By waiting to sign Redd last, the Bucks were able to take advantage of the difference by signing Bobby Simmons. Had they signed Redd first, they would have had no cap room to sign Simmons.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q32



[Edited by - McK1 on 06-30-2009 3:06 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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6/30/2009  3:02 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

If NY offered Felton the full mid I doubt Cha would match. Felton can push the tempo to MDA's preferred pace and he is a good defender.

jumper is still shaky but so is Duhon's Kidds and Rubios. I'm sure he is in the gym right now working on that shot.

Don't think the Knicks will offer anyone but Nash/Kidd the MLE. Felton doesn't justify taking cap room away in 2010.

IMO all the eggs in the Lebron basket isn't sound judgement

I hope someone on Walsh's staff realizes the Cavs can sign a mid level FA this summer and still sign Bosh to a max deal next summer as well. If Lebron opts out they too can sign two max FA's then re-up Lebron.

no one, including Walsh, has said that it's LeBron or nothing. That's a very bad assumption.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that you don't sign a so-so PG and risk not being able to sign 2 max free agents. That's just not sound management.

Felts not Deron or Paul but he is still a good talent at the pg pos. I just hope the FO is doing their due diligence when weighing what superstars will be available vs what talent may also be availiable to build a team

is Felton worth risking over any of the top 15 FA in 2010? doubt it.

if that's the line of thinking then wouldn't it have made sense to trade Lee & Nate at the trade deadline last year as well?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
McK1
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6/30/2009  3:03 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

If NY offered Felton the full mid I doubt Cha would match. Felton can push the tempo to MDA's preferred pace and he is a good defender.

jumper is still shaky but so is Duhon's Kidds and Rubios. I'm sure he is in the gym right now working on that shot.

Don't think the Knicks will offer anyone but Nash/Kidd the MLE. Felton doesn't justify taking cap room away in 2010.

IMO all the eggs in the Lebron basket isn't sound judgement

I hope someone on Walsh's staff realizes the Cavs can sign a mid level FA this summer and still sign Bosh to a max deal next summer as well. If Lebron opts out they too can sign two max FA's then re-up Lebron.

no one, including Walsh, has said that it's LeBron or nothing. That's a very bad assumption.

It still doesn't take away from the fact that you don't sign a so-so PG and risk not being able to sign 2 max free agents. That's just not sound management.

Felts not Deron or Paul but he is still a good talent at the pg pos. I just hope the FO is doing their due diligence when weighing what superstars will be available vs what talent may also be availiable to build a team

is Felton worth risking over any of the top 15 FA in 2010? doubt it.

who are the top 15 FA's of 2010?

Kobe is staying in LA.

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-30-2009 3:06 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
earthmansurfer
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6/30/2009  3:21 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

After 4 straight years of missing the playoffs and 20-30 win teams, who wants to sign with us after this season if we still suck AND have no lottery pick...
Available PGs:

Raymond Felton (restricted) PG with a shaky jump shot for D'antoni. No thanks.

Ramon Sessions - gets assists but doesn't really seem like a floor leader to me. more of a scorer who can pass..

Jarret Jack

Jason Kidd - I like him as a rental. Lebron likes him but does he have anything in the tank to play beyond this season?

Mike Bibby - definitely on the downslope of his career

Flip Murray - cheaper Nate?

The pickings seem slim.

What exactly does Walsh do? Stand pat and go into next season with Duhon, Rook + ______ ? to play the point and win 30 games again and give Utah a nice pick???

He shouldve thought about that when he decided Chandler was worth more than the 5 pick

Strongly agree with you here. I like Walsh but my one BIG complaint is that his conservativism costs him. You don't pass on the #5 pick like that. Even knowing Rubio wouldn't be there. If Lebron is even maybe coming and Chandler plays his position and we need shooters and a floor leader, you just don't pass on the pick. Chandler is a very good player with upside but I see him limited in the passing and IQ area. I still can't believe Walsh could have had the 5 pick...
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McK1
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6/30/2009  3:21 PM
the 2010 list

stars whose contracts expire following this season:

Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton

stars in option years:

Yao Ming (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Amare Stoudamire (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
LeBron James (owed 17.2 million in 10/11)
Dwayne Wade (owed 17.0 million in 10/11)
Chris Bosh (owed 17.1 million in 10/11)
Dirk Nowitzki (owed $21.5 million in 10/11)
Josh Howard (owed $11.8 million in 10/11) team option
Mike Redd (owed $18.3 million in 10/11)
Tyson Chandler (owed $12.8 million in 10/11)

If Felton takes a mid you can still sign Wade or Bron if thats available and a side kick. backload the side kicks contract.

however without Wade or James, none of those other guys are worth maxing out.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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6/30/2009  3:39 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

After 4 straight years of missing the playoffs and 20-30 win teams, who wants to sign with us after this season if we still suck AND have no lottery pick...
Available PGs:

Raymond Felton (restricted) PG with a shaky jump shot for D'antoni. No thanks.

Ramon Sessions - gets assists but doesn't really seem like a floor leader to me. more of a scorer who can pass..

Jarret Jack

Jason Kidd - I like him as a rental. Lebron likes him but does he have anything in the tank to play beyond this season?

Mike Bibby - definitely on the downslope of his career

Flip Murray - cheaper Nate?

The pickings seem slim.

What exactly does Walsh do? Stand pat and go into next season with Duhon, Rook + ______ ? to play the point and win 30 games again and give Utah a nice pick???

He shouldve thought about that when he decided Chandler was worth more than the 5 pick

Strongly agree with you here. I like Walsh but my one BIG complaint is that his conservativism costs him. You don't pass on the #5 pick like that. Even knowing Rubio wouldn't be there. If Lebron is even maybe coming and Chandler plays his position and we need shooters and a floor leader, you just don't pass on the pick. Chandler is a very good player with upside but I see him limited in the passing and IQ area. I still can't believe Walsh could have had the 5 pick...

Chandler + the #8 pick for the #5 is a good trade to you?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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6/30/2009  3:47 PM
Posted by McK1:

the 2010 list

stars whose contracts expire following this season:

Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton

stars in option years:

Yao Ming (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Amare Stoudamire (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
LeBron James (owed 17.2 million in 10/11)
Dwayne Wade (owed 17.0 million in 10/11)
Chris Bosh (owed 17.1 million in 10/11)
Dirk Nowitzki (owed $21.5 million in 10/11)
Josh Howard (owed $11.8 million in 10/11) team option
Mike Redd (owed $18.3 million in 10/11)
Tyson Chandler (owed $12.8 million in 10/11)

If Felton takes a mid you can still sign Wade or Bron if thats available and a side kick. backload the side kicks contract.

however without Wade or James, none of those other guys are worth maxing out.
I disagree. I would not complain if we had Joe Johnson and Amare. Then you take advantage of NY's financial resources. There are always going to be overpaid but very good players teams can't afford to keep that we can get easily: There will be 2011 versions of players in the situation Camby, Artest, and Redd were in in recent years. It likely won't be those specific players but rather other very good, 2 way players we can cheaply get.
GodSaveTheKnicks
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6/30/2009  3:57 PM
i don't mind JJ or Amare but for the max?

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
Vmart
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6/30/2009  4:04 PM
Question, do you make Kidd the offer or wait and see what comes of the Suns situation with Nash? To be honest I want Nash over Kidd. Should the Knicks wait and see.
EnySpree
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6/30/2009  4:07 PM
Knicks still have promising youth of their own....what if Jordan Hill becomes an above average talent??? What if Gallo breaks out and puts up Peja/Turk stats??? What if Wilson becomes a Granger/caron Butler??? What do the Knicks do then?
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Vmart
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6/30/2009  4:08 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Knicks still have promising youth of their own....what if Jordan Hill becomes an above average talent??? What if Gallo breaks out and puts up Peja/Turk stats??? What if Wilson becomes a Granger/caron Butler??? What do the Knicks do then?

I think the next thing you look at is the team making progress in terms of wins and losses.
martin
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6/30/2009  4:18 PM
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

i don't mind JJ or Amare but for the max?

no one is suggestion them for the max, but they could be good pickups.
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McK1
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6/30/2009  4:28 PM
I don't see the logic in paying Amare a near max to max deal at this point when you just drafted Jordan Hill
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
GodSaveTheKnicks
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6/30/2009  4:40 PM
Agreed. Compared to the the best players we've had on our roster in any given season Post Ewing, JJ and Amare would be fantastic pickups.

After setting our sights on Wade and Bron any player would fall short but I have no problem with either of those guys.
It would be nice if Amare took as much pride in his defense as he does in making buckets but he's still young and I'll take his game in it's entirety. Ewing/Zo/Hakeem/Duncan. Big guys who get it done on both ends of the floor are on the top centers/PF list for a reason. They just don't come around very often.

So I'd be ecstatic with Amare.

One of the main things I look for in players I really root wholeheartedly for is a burning desire to get better. Amare has done that by adding a nice jump shot. If he can not fall victim to the many temptation our great city has to offer he could jump to another level.
Posted by martin:
Posted by GodSaveTheKnicks:

i don't mind JJ or Amare but for the max?

no one is suggestion them for the max, but they could be good pickups.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
McK1
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7/1/2009  10:12 AM
Ray Felton isn't worth slicing into the 2010 plan for but Knicks brass feel Seesions is?
If Walsh can’t land Kidd, the Knicks would pursue Milwaukee restricted free agent guard Ramon Sessions, who once played summer ball in South Carolina for Knicks assistant coach Dan D’Antoni.

I can't understand it.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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7/1/2009  10:23 AM
Posted by McK1:

Ray Felton isn't worth slicing into the 2010 plan for but Knicks brass feel Seesions is?
If Walsh can’t land Kidd, the Knicks would pursue Milwaukee restricted free agent guard Ramon Sessions, who once played summer ball in South Carolina for Knicks assistant coach Dan D’Antoni.

I can't understand it.

how about this... how about you compare the 2 players for us and find out why. And also note that this is just speculation from a beat writer.

Height, passing mentality, shooting %, overall game.
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McK1
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7/1/2009  10:57 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

Ray Felton isn't worth slicing into the 2010 plan for but Knicks brass feel Seesions is?
If Walsh can’t land Kidd, the Knicks would pursue Milwaukee restricted free agent guard Ramon Sessions, who once played summer ball in South Carolina for Knicks assistant coach Dan D’Antoni.

I can't understand it.

how about this... how about you compare the 2 players for us and find out why. And also note that this is just speculation from a beat writer.

Height, passing mentality, shooting %, overall game.

Felt is a 6'1 200 Sessions is a 6'3 190.

Sessions takes less contested shots but Felton can hit the 3 and Ramon can't.

Court vision is equal. Sessions takes less risks handling the ball.

Defensively Felt is better.

Felton is faster with the ball end to end and in the halfcourt and is the better athlete.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-01-2009 10:58 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
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7/1/2009  10:59 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by martin:
Posted by McK1:

Ray Felton isn't worth slicing into the 2010 plan for but Knicks brass feel Seesions is?
If Walsh can’t land Kidd, the Knicks would pursue Milwaukee restricted free agent guard Ramon Sessions, who once played summer ball in South Carolina for Knicks assistant coach Dan D’Antoni.

I can't understand it.

how about this... how about you compare the 2 players for us and find out why. And also note that this is just speculation from a beat writer.

Height, passing mentality, shooting %, overall game.

Felt is a 6'1 200 Sessions is a 6'3 190.

Sessions takes less contested shots but Felton can hit the 3 and Ramon can't.

Court vision is equal. Sessions takes less risks handling the ball.

Defensively Felt is better.

Felton is faster with the ball end to end and in the halfcourt and is the better athlete.

[Edited by - McK1 on 07-01-2009 10:58 AM]

which one is better in the MDA offense?

and what the heck does "Sessions takes less contested shots" mean?
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