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Chris Sheridan: Walsh could have had pick 5 for Hughes and Chandler
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TMS
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6/26/2009  5:36 PM
Posted by Markji:
Posted by crzymdups:

the really frustrating thing to me about the rubio situation is that rubio was pretty CLEARLY trying to orchestrate himself to the knicks through the whole draft process. he got "sick" in sacramento. he didn't meet with memphis. he met oklahoma in LA. i don't believe he worked out for anyone but sacramento privately.

why weren't the knicks more clued in to the possibility he could drop to 5? it seemed very very likely once the kings cooled on him.

i just really think donnie didn't handle this well. and even if their target was curry - how do you turn down a curry for chandler swap? you don't. i'm sorry but you don't. and that's what was on the table from washington. okay, time to take a walk outside. pah.
In all of the mock drafts I saw, Rubio was picked before #5, so it would be hard for Walsh to know that he would be available at #5.

The option of trading Lee (or Nate +) for either Rubio or Curry makes even more sense if we can keep Chandler.

i don't think for 1 second that Walsh thought Rubio was gonna fall to #5... & he probably didn't think it was worth Chandler to get Curry when there really was no guarantee he wouldn't be available at #8 if he just stood pat anyway... as it was even if he pulled the trigger on a deal w/WAS for their #5 pick, how could he have known OKL wouldn't have struck up another deal w/some team, like say MIN who was already poised to trade up to get Rubio anyway at #3 even if we had made the deal for the #5?

bottomline i guess it all depends if this rumor is true & WAS was willing to give us their #5 w/filler for Chandler & Hughes... if that's the case then i guess u can argue that Curry would have been worth the price, but on the other hand u can argue that he wasn't also... Chandler is a very good looking young player in his own right... if OKL & MIN weren't such boneheads by messing up the draft order we wouldn't even be having these discussions right now & likely be very happy w/who we ended up with.
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TMS
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6/26/2009  5:38 PM
Posted by Markji:
Posted by Bippity10:

Is it possible that Walsh thinks Chandler would have a bigger impact than Rubio and just didn't want to trade him?
I think he didn't want to gamble on trading Chandler without a guarantee of getting Rubio.

Also, since we have 2 RFA who he wants to trade due to salary cap, this may be the best way to go. Sign and trade Lee or Nate. Chandler is a good piece to have to help entice a superstar to sign with us. Remember, they may want to come to NY but they also will come if they feel they can win. We don't have many pieces (or didn't before this draft)to put a winning team together. Chandler is a known quantity. A very good young player who is expected to get even better.

i agree Mark... like i just posted i think even if Donnie made the deal to get the #5, MIN was still in a great position to move up to #3 to get Rubio... so Donnie probably just decided to stand pat & see if he gets lucky by having Curry fall to him at #8... almost worked too... i'm not even unhappy it didn't to be honest, i'm fine w/Jordan Hill over Stephen Curry... the guy we shoulda taken was Derozan IMO, but whatever.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-26-2009 2:39 PM]
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SupremeCommander
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6/26/2009  5:44 PM
I said that then... I said that deal would be worth it... and most disagreed and said "the Knicks were giving up too much"

please
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TMS
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6/26/2009  5:44 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by TMS:

i'm gonna give Donnie a benefit of the doubt to see if he can work out a deal for Rubio or Curry this offseason somehow... unless he's got some bigger plan in place for Lee & Nate in S&T's... obviously if all we end up with is Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas out of this offseason while we watch Lee & Nate walk for nothing, then he will be deserving of plenty of criticism... at least he'll be getting it from me.

Maybe they are part of a 3 way with Minny and another team? Which teams have been rumored to have an interest in Lee or Nate, and which of them has a SG who Minny would like? What other players, from us, might we have to give up (Hill? Chandler?), and what other assets do we have which another team might want (Mobley?)

Did Portland show an interest in Nate? Lee? What about Cleveland?

Its summertime for teachers and hopefully the Knicks will make my vacation a little more enjoyable with some deals.

we've heard many POR rumors surrounding D Lee, so they might be a potential destination (tho i don't know why they'd want Lee when they already have Aldridge)... i can also see a team like CHA being interested in D Lee, where he can go play w/Larry Brown... D Lee & Okafor would make for a nice frontcourt tandem... maybe in a S&T for Ray Felton?... still, i'd rather not trade for someone like Felton & just get expirings & a pick in 2010 personally.

of course throwing Mobley's contract & Chandler into the mix ups the ante significantly, so we'll see what Donnie can do w/these assets... if he can't do anything & Lee ends up walking for nothing then he's gonna get lambasted by yours truly, i'll tell u that much right now.
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mjdotson
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6/26/2009  5:53 PM
I don't care if both Curry AND Rubio were projected to be gone in the first 4 picks, if you can jump up to the #5 spot and still keep the #8 pick, all for freakin' Hughes and Chandler, you do that in a heartbeat. The idea that we could have had Curry/Rubio and still taken Hill or anyone else we wanted who was still available REALLY makes me , but I don't know what else I expect during or after a NYK draft. CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT YEAR IN A LOADED DRAFT WHEN WE HAVE NO 1ST ROUND SELECTION!!!!!!!!!
Finestrg
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6/26/2009  5:58 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

Couple of quick questions - just looking over the Warriors' roster - (1) how long until Speedy Claxton can be traded again? 30 days I think right? (2) How much is Curry set to make this coming year being drafted #7?


[Edited by - finestrg on 06-26-2009 5:58 PM]

Anyone know?
raven
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6/26/2009  6:01 PM
rubio was not supposed to be on the board at 5, so what's the point?
SupremeCommander
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6/26/2009  6:10 PM
Posted by raven:

rubio was not supposed to be on the board at 5, so what's the point?

I think everyone on this board would have been happy with anyone that got drafted in the top 7. But I agree, there's no point
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6/26/2009  6:55 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Markji:
Posted by Bippity10:

Is it possible that Walsh thinks Chandler would have a bigger impact than Rubio and just didn't want to trade him?
I think he didn't want to gamble on trading Chandler without a guarantee of getting Rubio.

Also, since we have 2 RFA who he wants to trade due to salary cap, this may be the best way to go. Sign and trade Lee or Nate. Chandler is a good piece to have to help entice a superstar to sign with us. Remember, they may want to come to NY but they also will come if they feel they can win. We don't have many pieces (or didn't before this draft)to put a winning team together. Chandler is a known quantity. A very good young player who is expected to get even better.

i agree Mark... like i just posted i think even if Donnie made the deal to get the #5, MIN was still in a great position to move up to #3 to get Rubio... so Donnie probably just decided to stand pat & see if he gets lucky by having Curry fall to him at #8... almost worked too... i'm not even unhappy it didn't to be honest, i'm fine w/Jordan Hill over Stephen Curry... the guy we shoulda taken was Derozan IMO, but whatever.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-26-2009 2:39 PM]

What may even be more amazing, and to me, more upsetting, is that GS did not really want Curry, if you believe some, but not all, of the rumors about a trade with Phoenix that would involve Curry and others for Amare.
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TMS
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6/26/2009  6:57 PM
why would that be upsetting tho? what assets would u have wanted to give up to move up 1 slot to take Curry that u think GS would have agreed on?
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Paladin55
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6/26/2009  7:11 PM
Posted by TMS:

why would that be upsetting tho? what assets would u have wanted to give up to move up 1 slot to take Curry that u think GS would have agreed on?

He should have been there for us- at least based on GS's needs as a team. If the Phoenix deal does not go down, you wonder if we might do a Hill for Curry swap, or a S&T with Lee for Curry, since it sounded like they were going to take Hill until Phoenix stepped in with their Amare offer.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 06-26-2009 7:13 PM]
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TMS
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6/26/2009  7:16 PM
i would rather hold onto Hill & look into possible trade options using Lee or Nate, or even Chandler for Curry... i think Hill is exactly what this team & this system needs to be successful... unless we're assured of getting Amare or Bosh, i don't think trading Hill for Curry at this point serves our needs.
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6/26/2009  7:22 PM
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6/26/2009  7:39 PM
A few things: I don't think the Knicks expected Hill to fall to 8th- he was supposed to go somewhere between 4 and 6. They certainly didn't expect Rubio to be there at 5. In retrospect, it all could have worked out in the described perfect fashion. However, this easily could have resulted in us picking up some combination of Evans & Holiday.


Is it terrible going after Rubio now, post-draft? Now we know his specific value. And now Rubio's agent can apply pressure to make sure he gets where he needs to go. You never ever know what's going to happen on draft night. Players get drafted by teams that they never worked out for.



Go back in time to the John Wallace draft. The Knicks had it all worked out. All indications had the Knicks picking McCarty, Ilgauskas, then Jones. Wallace dropped down, causing the Knicks to lose out on Big Z.
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kam77
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6/26/2009  7:53 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

and i will say that donnie making a very public stance of saying he will ask about rubio is a clear message from donnie to the rubio camp - "we want you ricky." that is a good move by donnie. that helps. let's see what happens.

is this tampering?
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6/26/2009  7:55 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by crzymdups:

and i will say that donnie making a very public stance of saying he will ask about rubio is a clear message from donnie to the rubio camp - "we want you ricky." that is a good move by donnie. that helps. let's see what happens.

is this tampering?

Well, depends if Rubio is considered a T-Wolve before he signs with them. If he's not considered a T-Wolve player, and they merely own his draft rights, then Donnie can say whatever he wants about them. I'm sure this is explained somewhere, but I ain't lookin it up.
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6/26/2009  7:56 PM
If you knew for certain before the draft that Rubio would be there at five, then you can make a case for feeling bad about not making this (still risky) trade.
But not only was it uncertain, it was widely considered unlikely he would be there at five, so that trade looks more like a missed opportunity only after you know the #5 = Rubio. At the time it was being discussed, I think the right move was made, given the best info available, and considering the dearth of top talent in this draft.
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6/26/2009  8:01 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by raven:

rubio was not supposed to be on the board at 5, so what's the point?

I think everyone on this board would have been happy with anyone that got drafted in the top 7. But I agree, there's no point

With Griffin and Thabeet going 1/2 and the Knicks loving Evans as well... You could've traded up to 5 with the thought that at least one of Evans, Curry, Rubio would be there.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
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6/26/2009  8:41 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by raven:

rubio was not supposed to be on the board at 5, so what's the point?

I think everyone on this board would have been happy with anyone that got drafted in the top 7. But I agree, there's no point

With Griffin and Thabeet going 1/2 and the Knicks loving Evans as well... You could've traded up to 5 with the thought that at least one of Evans, Curry, Rubio would be there.

Yup- would have given us a greater chance of getting who we wanted, but it would seem that either the Knicks value Chandler more than we think, or Washington valued him less than we do.

Hill would not have been available at 8, though, if we had taken Curry at 5- we would have ended up with Henderson and probably taken a PF type player at 29.
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6/26/2009  8:48 PM
I don't think we have anything GS wants for Curry, unless they like DG, which I doubt. Curry is a pipe dream right now but we can still get Rubio. If we offer Chandler, cash, and maybe a future pick, I would have to think that Minny would consider it. They need a SF bad. Brewer has been a bust and they just traded Mike Miller. Chandler is still young and would move right into their starting lineup. They would have Flynn, McCants, Chandler, Love, and Harrington. They would still suck, but they at least would have a competent SF.

Rubio, Hughes, Harrington, Lee, and Curry, with Hill and Nate and DG on the bench is a pretty solid team.
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Chris Sheridan: Walsh could have had pick 5 for Hughes and Chandler
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