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djsunyc
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6/23/2009  9:56 AM
any way you slice it, drafting rubio is a big time gamble (b/c this draft stinks). but the knicks will at least make some money out of it.
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Andrew
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6/23/2009  9:59 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

Also to mention Rubio's 6.6M buyout, something we can only give 500K towards. He doesn't have that money. So then what, we torch two lotto picks (5 and 8) into the #2, and end up with no player this year? And ZERO guarantee that he would ever come over here? Please....please no. We cannot afford to do this.

There was a sac bee article on the reduced buyout agreement.

http://www.sacbee.com/kings/story/1965394.html
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BRIGGS
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6/23/2009  10:05 AM
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

Yes stuff like this is stupid. The honest to goodness question marks are

:Body Can his frail body hold up and compete in a meaningful way for roughly 100 games against men--and we are throwing in the knowledge that he had to successive injuries playing against a higher comp in europe--wrist adn hip

:Lack of jumpshot--his shot is flat and he does not shoot a good % from 3

:Average athletic ability and lack of strength

:Culture Shock both in moving to a new country at 18 and playing a much faster game than Europe

:Expectation level--can you imagine if he is actually acquired for two lottery picks or pick 2? He will have to perform at a Steve Nash-like level right away or the pressure New York is going to eat him up

:Lack of a body of work at a high level--we have 10 minutes from the Olympics and 13 porous games from Euro--what else? Did not workout directly with another peer of his group--also from his own comments today he had an awful 1 on 0 workout in Sacramento.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-23-2009 10:09 AM]
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nyk4ever
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6/23/2009  10:09 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

Yes stuff like this is stupid. The honest to goodness question marks are

:Body Can his frail body hold up and compete in a meaningful way for roughly 100 games against men--and we are throwing in the knowledge that he had to successive injuries playing againsta higher comp in europe--wrista dn knee

:Lack of jumpshot--his shot is flat and he does not shoot a good % from 3

:Average athletic ability and lack of strength

:Culture Shock both in moving to a new country at 18 and playing a much faster game than Europe

:Expectation level--can you imagine if he is actually acquired for two lottery picks or pick 2? He will have to perform at a Steve Nash-like level right away or the pressure New York is going to eat him up

:Lack of a body of work at a high level--we have 10 minutes from the Olympics and 13 porous games from Euro--what else? Did not workout directly with another peer of his group--also from his own comments today he had an awful 1 on 0 workout in Sacremento.

Briggs, how come it's only with the prospects that you like that you say the frames will fill out and they will get bigger? Whenever there is a guy you don't like, you never adjust for frame filling out and just rag on how they are small and light. It seems kinda two-faced to me just so you can get your point across.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-23-2009 10:11 AM]
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Knicksfan
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6/23/2009  10:13 AM
If the Knicks grab the 5th spot without having to give up #8, they would be dumb to trade both picks for #2. Keep both and get two good prospects on the team, for crying out loud!


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Marv
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6/23/2009  10:16 AM
this is getting fun
joec32033
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6/23/2009  10:18 AM
No way I trade the 5 and 8 for the two. ESPECIALLY if the target is Rubio who can fall to 5:

-Griffin
-Harden
-Thabeet/Curry/Evans
-Curry/Holiday/Evans/Hill
5-Rubio.

In my scenario, there is actually a way for Thabeet to fall all the way to 5 if you see a top 4 of

Griffin
Harden
Curry
Sac doesn't need a big they need a point so Evans/Holiday would be ideal.
5-Thabeet.
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Andrew
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6/23/2009  10:20 AM
What was the knee injury Rubio suffered?
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BRIGGS
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6/23/2009  10:20 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

Yes stuff like this is stupid. The honest to goodness question marks are

:Body Can his frail body hold up and compete in a meaningful way for roughly 100 games against men--and we are throwing in the knowledge that he had to successive injuries playing againsta higher comp in europe--wrista dn knee

:Lack of jumpshot--his shot is flat and he does not shoot a good % from 3

:Average athletic ability and lack of strength

:Culture Shock both in moving to a new country at 18 and playing a much faster game than Europe

:Expectation level--can you imagine if he is actually acquired for two lottery picks or pick 2? He will have to perform at a Steve Nash-like level right away or the pressure New York is going to eat him up

:Lack of a body of work at a high level--we have 10 minutes from the Olympics and 13 porous games from Euro--what else? Did not workout directly with another peer of his group--also from his own comments today he had an awful 1 on 0 workout in Sacremento.

Briggs, how come it's only with the prospects that you like that you say the frames will fill out and they will get bigger? Whenever there is a guy you don't like, you never adjust for frame filling out and just rag on how they are small and light. It seems kinda two-faced to me just so you can get your point across.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-23-2009 10:11 AM]

I watch to much Fox News.
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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6/23/2009  10:21 AM
Posted by Andrew:

What was the knee injury Rubio suffered?

still legs. but i hear he has long arms.
Marv
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6/23/2009  10:23 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Andrew:

never gets to the free throw line

I'm not sure if this statement has merit. Looking at his 08-09 ACB stats he averages over 4 FTs a game which is respectable.

Yes stuff like this is stupid. The honest to goodness question marks are

:Body Can his frail body hold up and compete in a meaningful way for roughly 100 games against men--and we are throwing in the knowledge that he had to successive injuries playing againsta higher comp in europe--wrista dn knee

:Lack of jumpshot--his shot is flat and he does not shoot a good % from 3

:Average athletic ability and lack of strength

:Culture Shock both in moving to a new country at 18 and playing a much faster game than Europe

:Expectation level--can you imagine if he is actually acquired for two lottery picks or pick 2? He will have to perform at a Steve Nash-like level right away or the pressure New York is going to eat him up

:Lack of a body of work at a high level--we have 10 minutes from the Olympics and 13 porous games from Euro--what else? Did not workout directly with another peer of his group--also from his own comments today he had an awful 1 on 0 workout in Sacremento.

Briggs, how come it's only with the prospects that you like that you say the frames will fill out and they will get bigger? Whenever there is a guy you don't like, you never adjust for frame filling out and just rag on how they are small and light. It seems kinda two-faced to me just so you can get your point across.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 06-23-2009 10:11 AM]

I watch to much Fox News.
mjdotson
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6/23/2009  10:24 AM
I see no way possible we could come out of this with 2 lottery picks (i.e. 5 and 8). If and that's one HUUUUUUGE "if") we do, I have full faith in the franchise screwing it up somehow. The logical thing to do would be to grab Curry at #5 and then a guy like T-Will at #8. That would give tremendous depth at PG and one of the most pro-ready players in Williams.
fishmike
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6/23/2009  10:24 AM
PV has never seen the guy play. Never. He's literally making that up. No defense? Where does that come from? The best NBA players in the WORLD walked away amazed by a 17 year old spanish kids ability to make plays and defend NBA players.

The kid won defensive player of the year last year in the best league in the world that isnt the NBA.

Does anyone do any research??

Briggs.. if this was some HS kid from Los Angeles you would be starting 4 threads a day about how in 2 years we could have a two way star PG who by then will be 6'7 and 225lbs

Seriously.. this is assanine.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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6/23/2009  10:27 AM
here is a pretty good article if your looking for something objective:

http://blogs.hoopshype.com/blogs/narducci/2009/06/23/divided-opinion-on-rubios-impact/

Divided opinion on Rubio’s impactJune 23, 2009 @ 5:24 am by Marc Narducci · Filed under Draft, Ricky Rubio

Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio should be one of the most intriguing players to enter the NBA in quite some time. Rubio plays with a flair that has had him compared to one of the all-time great showmen, Pete Maravich.

Of course Maravich was also a great player, a five-time NBA all-star who was inducted into the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1987.

Whether Rubio lives up to that type of comparison remains to be seen. One reason that Rubio’s entrance to the NBA is so anticipated is because opinion is so divided on the 6-foot-4, 180-pound dynamo who won’t turn 19 until Oct. 21.

Many fans received their first look at Rubio as a member of Spain’s silver medal team in the 2008 Olympics. Rubio, who was 17 at the time, started in place of injured point guard Jose Calderon during Spain’s 118-107 loss to the U.S. in the gold medal game. In that game, Rubio showed great composure, despite suffering an injured right wrist that would later need surgery. During the Olympics he averaged 4.8 points, 4.0 rebounds and 3.0 assists in 18.3 minutes.

We recently talked to front office personnel people from two different NBA teams who have seen Rubio several times. One had an optimistic outlook for Rubio and the other displayed a healthy dose of skepticism.

Each asked not to be identified so they will be referred to as Evaluator No. 1 and Evaluator No. 2.

“I’m a fan and think that people always look for the negative, saying he can’t shoot and is scrawny,” said Evaluator No. 1. “Remember, at 17 he played in the Olympics against the greatest players in the world and when asked who impressed them, the Olympians said Rudy Fernandez and Ricky Rubio.”

Rubio competed in the ACB, which Evaluator No. 1 says is the No. 1 league in the world next to the NBA. This past season, Rubio averaged 10 points, 6.1 assists and 2.2 steals in 22.2 minutes over his first 22 ACB appearances with DKV Joventut Badalona of Spain. He was named the ACB Defensive Player of the Year.

“His basketball IQ is off the chart and he is one of the best greatest passers I have ever seen,” Evaluator No. 1 said. “He has a chance to be special.”

Even Evaluator No. 1, admitted that there are legitimate concerns about Rubio’s athleticism.

“If he only remains a good athlete and he is now a good athlete, not elite, then maybe he won’t be a superstar,” he said. “But I believe you have a starting point guard which in our league has become an elite position.”

Evaluator No. 1 also preached caution in handling Rubio.

“Is he physically there, no, of course not,” he said. “Mentally he is there. But everybody wants instant gratification. There has to be some patience shown.”

Evaluator No. 2 acknowledged that Rubio has talent, but he thinks he has been over-hyped.

“I never saw a guy who has drawn as much varied opinion,” Evaluator No. 2 said. “He is a brain-first, clever and tricky player, but I don’t know if his physical package is built to stand the test of time.”

Evaluator No. 2 says he feels that Rubio is worthy of a first round choice, just not as high as others are suggesting.

“I don’t see him being picked near No. 2 or 3,” he said. “I see him as one of those point guards who has a chance to be OK like a bunch of other players, but I don’t see him as a savior.”

Evaluator No. 2 says he doesn’t feel that Rubio will be able to withstand the constant pounding in the NBA.

“Sometimes you take the bag of tricks away from slight of hand artists and then physicality takes over and that is where I would have a concern,” he said.

Evaluator No. 1 says that Rubio will indeed reward a team for selecting him high in the draft.

“Those deficiencies of not being a great shooter and not being strong, he will fix because he is a gymrat,” Evaluator No. 1 said. “The kid won’t stop working.”

And the speculation won’t stop either. There will be many storylines in the NBA draft, but none more fascinating than whether Rubio becomes an elite point guard, or fails to keep up with the physical nature of the NBA.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Allanfan20
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6/23/2009  10:27 AM
6'6" is a stretch. A lot of guys stop growing at about 17, 18 (He's turning 18 in just a couple of months btw). However, if he ended up being 6'4", 6'5", that's still a very big poing guard and that can be used to our advantage.

With that said, if we somehow end up with the number 2 pick, I think we have to go with Thabeet.
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fishmike
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6/23/2009  10:29 AM
just to sum up... you can read Brigg's posts all day about Rubio's stiff legs and poor shot or you can listen to guys like Lebron, Kobe and Wade who had to play their best ball because some 17 year kid was playing them straight up.

I like ya Briggs but I gotta go with Bron, Kobe and Wade on this one. But thats just me
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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6/23/2009  10:35 AM
Posted by mjdotson:

I see no way possible we could come out of this with 2 lottery picks (i.e. 5 and 8). If and that's one HUUUUUUGE "if") we do, I have full faith in the franchise screwing it up somehow. The logical thing to do would be to grab Curry at #5 and then a guy like T-Will at #8. That would give tremendous depth at PG and one of the most pro-ready players in Williams.

You sure you are from Alabama? Your insight screams New Yorker.
BRIGGS
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6/23/2009  10:40 AM
Ricky upset at himself and already making excuses My man if you cant do it one on none--well I think we can easily get this kid at pick 8. Stay calm Knicks--stop hyperventilating Menudo will make it to 8 so you dont have to trade the farm for him.



Rubio, who had planned on working out for the Kings last week before he became sick on the trip, took part in an individual workout that included Petrie and coach Paul Westphal and lasted approximately an hour. While the session remained secret at the request of his representatives, he told The Bee it was a necessary exercise that hardly showcased his game.

"It's difficult to show them what I have to do on the court, because there are no teammates and nobody there," Rubio said at the Sacramento airport just before leaving town. "I can't show them what I do on the court. This workout is not my style. I need my teammates around me to play basketball. I was alone."

Rubio, who visited with Oklahoma City (which has the No. 3 pick) in Los Angeles on Saturday, and previously visited with Memphis (No. 2 pick) in Spain, said he was attempting to please the Kings by getting on the floor.

"When I came here, I was sick, so I had to come back to L.A. and then they wanted to watch me on the court, so I come back here to (do) some workouts with them and talk with them again," Rubio said. "But I had like a month with nothing (no playing) on the court, but I'm feeling good. I worked out with the coach in the workout. It was good."

How Rubio's session will impact the Kings' decision, however, remains to be seen. Just one day before, point guards Tyreke Evans (Memphis), Stephen Curry (Davidson) and Jonny Flynn (Syracuse) were the headliners in a mega workout in which they competed for the right to be picked fourth. Evans is believed to have left the best impression, showcasing his length and strength while getting to the rim as he pleased.

The scene was much different a day later, with his one-man workout unannounced and the curtain inside the facility closed. The approach to winning the Kings' favor is clearly different with Rubio, whose four pro seasons in Europe made him a known commodity overseas, and whose Olympic showing with the Spanish team last summer turned so many American heads.
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sebstar
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6/23/2009  10:40 AM
Posted by fishmike:

just to sum up... you can read Brigg's posts all day about Rubio's stiff legs and poor shot or you can listen to guys like Lebron, Kobe and Wade who had to play their best ball because some 17 year kid was playing them straight up.

You have to be really careful about falling in love with small game samples, especially with NBA prospects. Rubio, was no doubt flying on adrenaline playing against Bean, Lebron..ext. A lot of marginally talented players could replicate such a performance in a similar scenario.

If the NBA season was comprised of a 10 game tournament, great...but we're talking about a grueling ass 82 game year with playoffs on top, competing with ridiculously physical and athletic players. Is Rubio built for this?

There are a lot of red flags that I am hearing about him. I'm not anti-Rubio, its just I dont know enough about him to say that I am comfortable investing so much into him, via trades and a high pick

I have heightened reservations because of our questionable Gallo pick. We couldnt get our '08 pick wrong, and we DAMN SURE cant mess up this time.




My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
mjdotson
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6/23/2009  10:43 AM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by mjdotson:

I see no way possible we could come out of this with 2 lottery picks (i.e. 5 and 8). If and that's one HUUUUUUGE "if") we do, I have full faith in the franchise screwing it up somehow. The logical thing to do would be to grab Curry at #5 and then a guy like T-Will at #8. That would give tremendous depth at PG and one of the most pro-ready players in Williams.

You sure you are from Alabama? Your insight screams New Yorker.

Yeah, I've suffered right there with you guys through the last 10 yrs of front office blunders. I'm fully expecting a BREAKING NEWS report across the ESPN ticker on Wednesday or early Thursday, announcing the re-hiring of Isaiah in the front office...just hours before the draft.

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