Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by EwingsGlass:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Briggs. You preach patience for every player, yet Rubio has to be there right away? Which one is it?

This player will take 3-4 years to develop--thats a lot for a top 5 pick--you are asking a lot from the fans.

How's his English? Maybe they won't listen, but when he is dropping dimes by the dozen, they will be happy to take the feed.

The NBA is not a boy's league.

are you basing that on age? physique? you do know there are dozens are exceptions on both counts.

Can you tell me one from the PG position? If the Knicks pass On Tyreke Evans for this kid they will regret it.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 8:04 PM]

how about this one?

Posted by Marv:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by EwingsGlass:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Briggs. You preach patience for every player, yet Rubio has to be there right away? Which one is it?

This player will take 3-4 years to develop--thats a lot for a top 5 pick--you are asking a lot from the fans.

How's his English? Maybe they won't listen, but when he is dropping dimes by the dozen, they will be happy to take the feed.

The NBA is not a boy's league.

are you basing that on age? physique? you do know there are dozens are exceptions on both counts.

Can you tell me one from the PG position? If the Knicks pass On Tyreke Evans for this kid they will regret it.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 8:04 PM]

how about this one?

Im guessing this is a a Marv joke. If not we can remember that IT won a NC?

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by EwingsGlass:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Briggs. You preach patience for every player, yet Rubio has to be there right away? Which one is it?

This player will take 3-4 years to develop--thats a lot for a top 5 pick--you are asking a lot from the fans.

How's his English? Maybe they won't listen, but when he is dropping dimes by the dozen, they will be happy to take the feed.

The NBA is not a boy's league.

are you basing that on age? physique? you do know there are dozens are exceptions on both counts.

Can you tell me one from the PG position? If the Knicks pass On Tyreke Evans for this kid they will regret it.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 8:04 PM]

how about this one?

Im guessing this is a a Marv joke. If not we can remember that IT won a NC?

that's why i asked if you were basing it on physique or age.

yes, isiah had it all over rubio in terms of college achievements. but he also had it all over nowitzki, ginobili, parker and yao. should we have totally discounted all of their prospects coining into the draft as well because they hadn’t played college ball?

and i'm not jocking rubio in particular, either. i have big question marks about his game at the nba level. but i'm just questioning how broad of a stroke you’re using when dismissing non-american prospects at high draft positions.

Hard to believe that anyone has to actually defend Rubio. I never believe hype, but the hype does not come from the kid, rather from scouts, other players, fans, and the press. Beneath the Maravich comparisons you have a fundamentally sound player, with a high BB IQ who has played against better competition than ANY other PG in this draft. I would probably take Curry over him as a PG because of the jump shot factor, but if you are talking about how guys will develop as PGs, I would say that Evans will never be the floor leader and distributor that Rubio is, and if you are looking for a real PG, you take Rubio over Evans at this point. Maybe he should have waited a year or two, but he is in the draft, and if the Knicks had a chance to get him it would be a shame if they let him pass.

Some quotes about Rubio that I googled:

"I was nothing compared to him when I was 17. His maturity and confidence level is extremely high for his age and for what he's doing." —

Los Angeles Lakers forward and Spanish National Team teammate Pau Gasol

"He has the great ability to distribute the ball. He's pretty crafty. He has the ability to run a team and know situations, knows how to pass the ball to everybody on the court."

— Former roommate and teammate Coby Karl.

I'm here with Ricky, who's only 17 years old, and I know I've been through a lot to be where I am today. He already took part in the Olympics and I had to be 2 years in college and 3 in the NBA before making it. It's insane what he did until now.

I had already seen him on TV and I knew he had long arms with which he's very dangerous. I was leader in steals in the NBA last year and I knew I couldn't make fool of him, because he would steal the ball. Besides, the way he passes the ball is impressive, he penetrates to the basket and he doesn't think about him, he's unselfish, he always thinks about the team.

- Chris Paul on Ricky (after being in Barcelona for a street basket session with the Spaniard):

Rubio played quite well, especially in the final period during which he had his way when and where he wanted...There was a point when he was trapped in the corner and, after the play, he looked to be getting on two of his teammates for not making cuts towards the ball. You gotta love it if your point guard is a leader, and that sequence demonstrated that he has the potential to not only lead by example, but vocally as well. That kind of leadership may be hard to show on a consistent basis as the youngest guy on the court, but he knew when the time was right. Rubio finished the night with 16 points, 7 assists, and 6 steals.

-Observation from a fan who saw him in Europe.

Kings Concerned with Rubio's Leadership?
Posted: 6/22/2009 7:01:00 AM
Source: Jonathan Givony of DraftExpress.com


As messy as the rest of the top five sounds, Sacramento’s situation might be the most confusing. It’s looking more and more clear that the Kings are not nearly as enamored with Ricky Rubio as they once were, for a number of reasons. The official party line is that Sacramento is concerned that Rubio will struggle to assert his leadership ability on the group of players they currently have in place, due to the fact that he’s only 18 years old and not a native English speaker. One of the biggest issues Sacramento had last year was with the culture of their team lockerroom. On top of that, the Kings are worried that will Rubio will have a huge target on his chest coming into the NBA, and that other players will “try to go at him every single night.”

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Paladin55:

Hard to believe that anyone has to actually defend Rubio. I never believe hype, but the hype does not come from the kid, rather from scouts, other players, fans, and the press. Beneath the Maravich comparisons you have a fundamentally sound player, with a high BB IQ who has played against better competition than ANY other PG in this draft. I would probably take Curry over him as a PG because of the jump shot factor, but if you are talking about how guys will develop as PGs, I would say that Evans will never be the floor leader and distributor that Rubio is, and if you are looking for a real PG, you take Rubio over Evans at this point. Maybe he should have waited a year or two, but he is in the draft, and if the Knicks had a chance to get him it would be a shame if they let him pass.

Some quotes about Rubio that I googled:

"I was nothing compared to him when I was 17. His maturity and confidence level is extremely high for his age and for what he's doing." �

Los Angeles Lakers forward and Spanish National Team teammate Pau Gasol

"He has the great ability to distribute the ball. He's pretty crafty. He has the ability to run a team and know situations, knows how to pass the ball to everybody on the court."

� Former roommate and teammate Coby Karl.

I'm here with Ricky, who's only 17 years old, and I know I've been through a lot to be where I am today. He already took part in the Olympics and I had to be 2 years in college and 3 in the NBA before making it. It's insane what he did until now.

I had already seen him on TV and I knew he had long arms with which he's very dangerous. I was leader in steals in the NBA last year and I knew I couldn't make fool of him, because he would steal the ball. Besides, the way he passes the ball is impressive, he penetrates to the basket and he doesn't think about him, he's unselfish, he always thinks about the team.

- Chris Paul on Ricky (after being in Barcelona for a street basket session with the Spaniard):

Rubio played quite well, especially in the final period during which he had his way when and where he wanted...There was a point when he was trapped in the corner and, after the play, he looked to be getting on two of his teammates for not making cuts towards the ball. You gotta love it if your point guard is a leader, and that sequence demonstrated that he has the potential to not only lead by example, but vocally as well. That kind of leadership may be hard to show on a consistent basis as the youngest guy on the court, but he knew when the time was right. Rubio finished the night with 16 points, 7 assists, and 6 steals.

-Observation from a fan who saw him in Europe.

Im sorry can you tell me his stats in the Euro league--maybe I am missing them. Also Koby Karl might be exaggerating himself just a bit--he was not in the NBA for 3 years and certainly didnt lead the NBA league in steals--maybe he was talking video games?

stats in this situation don't mean crap and you know it. His stats are about on par with Dirks.

Posted by martin:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by Paladin55:

Hard to believe that anyone has to actually defend Rubio. I never believe hype, but the hype does not come from the kid, rather from scouts, other players, fans, and the press. Beneath the Maravich comparisons you have a fundamentally sound player, with a high BB IQ who has played against better competition than ANY other PG in this draft. I would probably take Curry over him as a PG because of the jump shot factor, but if you are talking about how guys will develop as PGs, I would say that Evans will never be the floor leader and distributor that Rubio is, and if you are looking for a real PG, you take Rubio over Evans at this point. Maybe he should have waited a year or two, but he is in the draft, and if the Knicks had a chance to get him it would be a shame if they let him pass.

Some quotes about Rubio that I googled:

"I was nothing compared to him when I was 17. His maturity and confidence level is extremely high for his age and for what he's doing." �

Los Angeles Lakers forward and Spanish National Team teammate Pau Gasol

"He has the great ability to distribute the ball. He's pretty crafty. He has the ability to run a team and know situations, knows how to pass the ball to everybody on the court."

� Former roommate and teammate Coby Karl.

I'm here with Ricky, who's only 17 years old, and I know I've been through a lot to be where I am today. He already took part in the Olympics and I had to be 2 years in college and 3 in the NBA before making it. It's insane what he did until now.

I had already seen him on TV and I knew he had long arms with which he's very dangerous. I was leader in steals in the NBA last year and I knew I couldn't make fool of him, because he would steal the ball. Besides, the way he passes the ball is impressive, he penetrates to the basket and he doesn't think about him, he's unselfish, he always thinks about the team.

- Chris Paul on Ricky (after being in Barcelona for a street basket session with the Spaniard):

Rubio played quite well, especially in the final period during which he had his way when and where he wanted...There was a point when he was trapped in the corner and, after the play, he looked to be getting on two of his teammates for not making cuts towards the ball. You gotta love it if your point guard is a leader, and that sequence demonstrated that he has the potential to not only lead by example, but vocally as well. That kind of leadership may be hard to show on a consistent basis as the youngest guy on the court, but he knew when the time was right. Rubio finished the night with 16 points, 7 assists, and 6 steals.

-Observation from a fan who saw him in Europe.

Im sorry can you tell me his stats in the Euro league--maybe I am missing them. Also Koby Karl might be exaggerating himself just a bit--he was not in the NBA for 3 years and certainly didnt lead the NBA league in steals--maybe he was talking video games?

stats in this situation don't mean crap and you know it. His stats are about on par with Dirks.

Stats mean crp? then we don't consider production? Let me see on a 40 minute per game basis Tyreke Evans averaged 23 points 7.3 rebounds a 5.3 assists 2.8 steals and when he was shifted to starting PG he Memphis won 25 games in a row. His main deficiency 3 point shooting obviously has had tremendous improvement over a very short period of time. I dont ever have to worry about his body or his strength because at 19 hes already 6-5 220+

If Ricky Rubio was put on the Memphis team he would not have been anywhere near as close as good as Tyreke --who also finished up with 33-5-4 in the elite 8--production size results

On that Hollinger scale Tyreke was 3 but the caveat was he was a freshmen and had the highest freshmen average on that list since the guy started it. Basically Tyreke is off the charts. He was Mcds MVP--he has a freak NBA body and hes da m good already--no waiting and can easily play PG.

I will add after game 1 in SL --everyone will know just how good Tyreke Evans is--and anyone who bypasses him--will be shaking their heads.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 10:31 PM]

Posted by martin:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by martin:

stats in this situation don't mean crap and you know it. His stats are about on par with Dirks.

Stats mean crp? then we don't consider production? Let me see on a 40 minute per game basis Tyreke Evans averaged 23 points 7.3 rebounds a 5.3 assists 2.8 steals and when he was shifted to starting PG he Memphis won 25 games in a row. His main deficiency 3 point shooting obviously has had tremendous improvement over a very short period of time. I dont ever have to worry about his body or his strength because at 19 hes already 6-5 220+

If Ricky Rubio was put on the Memphis team he would not have been anywhere near as close as good as Tyreke --who also finished up with 33-5-4 in the elite 8--production size results

On that Hollinger scale Tyreke was 3 but the caveat was he was a freshmen and had the highest freshmen average on that list since the guy started it. Basically Tyreke is off the charts. He was Mcds MVP--he has a freak NBA body and hes da m good already--no waiting and can easily play PG.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 10:28 PM]

hey man, it's cool if you want to compare apples to oranges, cause I can image what Tyreke would do 2 years ago if he was given the ball and asked to come off the bench of an established Olympic team while being hounded by CP3, Williams and the like. he would freak out and then they wouldn't play him any more.

The european bias is ridiculous. I'm not trying to say I like all euro players but I don't try and pass my word off as gospel when I know I haven't seen the dudes play before. If Rubio did what he did in the NCAA he'd be getting his jock rode here, but since he hasn't he's just a "overmatched boy"

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by martin:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by martin:

stats in this situation don't mean crap and you know it. His stats are about on par with Dirks.

Stats mean crp? then we don't consider production? Let me see on a 40 minute per game basis Tyreke Evans averaged 23 points 7.3 rebounds a 5.3 assists 2.8 steals and when he was shifted to starting PG he Memphis won 25 games in a row. His main deficiency 3 point shooting obviously has had tremendous improvement over a very short period of time. I dont ever have to worry about his body or his strength because at 19 hes already 6-5 220+

If Ricky Rubio was put on the Memphis team he would not have been anywhere near as close as good as Tyreke --who also finished up with 33-5-4 in the elite 8--production size results

On that Hollinger scale Tyreke was 3 but the caveat was he was a freshmen and had the highest freshmen average on that list since the guy started it. Basically Tyreke is off the charts. He was Mcds MVP--he has a freak NBA body and hes da m good already--no waiting and can easily play PG.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 10:28 PM]

hey man, it's cool if you want to compare apples to oranges, cause I can image what Tyreke would do 2 years ago if he was given the ball and asked to come off the bench of an established Olympic team while being hounded by CP3, Williams and the like. he would freak out and then they wouldn't play him any more.

Yeah I think youre right martin--that why he was Mcd's MVP like Lebron James--because he was scared to play with top talent. And Derrick Rose wouldve been scared etc...

Remember this is a 6-5 221 pound kid compared to a svelt 6-3 player. There is a huge physical difference.
Rubio is so tough that he wouldnt workout against anyone

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 10:56 PM]

Rubio about as tough as Thabeet.

Rubio, Curry and Evan as of right now are out of the Knicks reach. Why bother with what Rubio or Evans will be because they aren't going to be anything for the Knicks but a thorn in their sides.

If the Knicks want to be serious players then they need to take a page out of the NY Giants and NY Jets play book and get the player they want with a trade. As we have seen the Giants move paid off with a championship. Yes different sport but the Giants knew what they wanted and went after it. The Jets went after what they wanted the result is yet to be seen. Another team that made a move on draft day or shortly after was Lakers for Kobe, West knew what he wanted and went after it. Walsh has to do the same and help the Knicks get out of the rut they are in and become serious players.

Posted by Paladin55:

Posted by BRIGGS:


On that Hollinger scale Tyreke was 3 but the caveat was he was a freshmen and had the highest freshmen average on that list since the guy started it. Basically Tyreke is off the charts. He was Mcds MVP--he has a freak NBA body and hes da m good already--no waiting and can easily play PG.

I will add after game 1 in SL --everyone will know just how good Tyreke Evans is--and anyone who bypasses him--will be shaking their heads.
[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-22-2009 10:31 PM]

Just like everyone knew after a few SL games that Bayless was going to be better than Rose, right?

Bayless is a good example to use when considereing Evans- a guy with some nice offensive ability who could not do what Portland needed him to do- play PG.

I think that you may be the only person who believes that Evans "can easily play PG." At the very least I think he will be a very good SG, both offensively and defensively, but from what I have read and seen, there is nothing he has done so far which guarantees that he will be an effective PG in the NBA. He might end up being able to run a team, and if we get him, I hope he can, but he is not the floor leader that Rubio, Flynn, and Lawson have been for their teams, and nothing he has done in college- all of about 40 games in a so-so conference, indicates that he has the floor leadership skills, not just the offensive talent, to quarterback a team and make everyone better.

I would have no problem with the Knicks taking Curry, Evans, or Rubio, and could accept Flynn and Holiday at this point, but I believe the Knicks should only take Evans if they believe he can be a PG on a regular basis. If the reports we hear are true, it would seem that the Knicks like Evans and think he can be a PG, and I have to go with Walsh and MDA's assessment of Evans, if that is really what they think.

To dimiss what Rubio has done, though, is somewhat myopic on your part. You have obviously taken the Rubio situation a bit too seriously and perhaps you have lost some focus.

Bayless and Evans are way two different players--that shouldnt even be explored. When we get down to fundamentals Rubio does not shoot the ball very well and isnt the best athlete--in the NBA those deficiencies are going to be exploited by opposing team's coaches and players. Also I would have to imagine its going to be VERY difficult for Rubio with the combination of expectations/pressure of being such a high pick-- his age moving to a new country to play against US players in a much different much faster game than he is used too. This is no slam dunk pick--there is very reasonably seen risk . Also I still have not seen any documentation on what Rubio has done in an adult league other than 4 points and 4 assists in his 13 Euro league games.

And in addition with his physical appearance---frail--he has already been injured twice in succession playing with the big boys--his wrist and hip. This is also--atleast to me a red flag. He is not PHYSICALLY ready to play NBA basketball . He is not matured into his body and I don't see him as physically able to play 82 professional NBA basketball games in any type of meaningful role anytime soon. After the Gallinari episode I am wary of players who injure so easily.
I think what I say is legit--Im not dismissing what I described as his innate PG skills or his length but anyone who fairly looks at the kid--has to be wary of the red flags and look beyond the flair of video--we are talking very high lottery pick--not pick 29-40

Tyreke Evans is a guy who couldve been prep to pro and played year 1--I do think going to school--gaining the experience proving he can run a team and win a lot of games with some very impressive numbers--culminating in his 33 point 5 rebound 4 assist performance in an uptempo game against Mizz in the elite 8. He IS physically ready for NBA basketball and looks like he worked hard to improve a glitch in his shooting mechanics that was there and holding him to 27% shooting from 3. I think we will see this player continue at the 45-46% rate in the NBA and will see improvement on that 27% number immediately. He is very strong in the lane with a great handle and can go coast to coast with the ball as fast as the majority of NBA PG's--like Stephon Curry I like Evans and Curry as guards who are READY to play NOW--I cannot say the same for Rubio. Rubio needed to stay in Europe and play for atleast two more years while his body matures and to work on his weakness's --that wont be afforded at the NBA level as a high lottery pick--expectations will put him on the floor and he is NOT ready for it.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-23-2009 06:05 AM]