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orangeblobman
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Nauru
6/15/2009  2:05 PM
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
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MS
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6/15/2009  2:13 PM
More than half of the league is experiencing financial trouble and will not break the bank this summer. The teams that need Nate can only offer a 5ish and Lee is not going to get a huge deal, he just isn't unless Seattle thinks he can be a huge piece to their puzzle.

Gortat for part or all of the mid-level for a season is a good idea. He is a nice defender and that is a huge frontcourt need.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
6/15/2009  2:14 PM
Seattle doesn't exist anymore, so Lee would have to be a pretty HUGE PIECE to that puzzle.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Cosmic
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6/15/2009  2:33 PM
Gortat for MLE? My god what happened to this board and how did Scott Layden take over everyone's accounts!? 4pts 3bds? Full MLE?

JJ Redick!?!? Dude hits 3 uncontested jumpers in garbage time in a blowout Laker closeout game and now we want him? After he was a huge reason they blew two close games!? After he's sucked ass his entire NBA career?

Come'on fellas, THINK!!!!

I am also not a fan of going after Odom, Hedo, or Boozer. Neither are superstars and neither are being had cheaply and you sign them and then go down the wish list of Gortat, retaining Lee and Nate, and the assumption that Gallo and Chandler are future stars and you have once again cap strapped us, prevented us from signing any top tier FA's and condemned us to continue winning 30 games a season.

I hope Walsh stays the course unless there is a bonafide Celtics instant recovery plan out there to be had with our expirings. Even then, where's our Paul Pierce to add them to? Please don't mention anyone that's already here we couldn't mash our entire roster into one player and have a Paul Pierce.

Stay the course, Donnie, stay the course.

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purple012870
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6/15/2009  2:52 PM
Cosmic - comes down to:

a) resign Nate and or Lee for 4mm and or 8mm
b) use S&T for either both
c) do a) + use MLE for FAs mentioned - this would cost less than just the Lee signing
d) are you suggesting do NOTHING, let Nate & Lee walk & sign nobody? b/c that results in a bare cupboard for LBJ
purple012870
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6/15/2009  2:53 PM
c) don't do a) + use MLE for FAs mentioned - this would cost less than just the Lee signing
Cosmic
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6/15/2009  3:05 PM
We shart the bed considering Lee and Nate I'm afraid.

What I would never do is:

A) Use the MLE unless it's a one year rental.
B) Sign ANY FA that is not at least a very big star preventing any chance at a 2010 superstar. The mentioned players will all want big long-term contracts and are NOT worth scrapping our 2010 plan.
C) S&T any player that gives us back average players on long term deals.

I would seek to trade Lee and Nate at this point and attempt to dump Jeffries or Curry on a team in the process - and try my best to get back expirings, picks, or other intriguing youth from other teams.

If it came down to being forced to either sign Lee to 10M+ or trade him at that level for 2011 or 2012 mediocre players at that price?

Yeah, see ya David, for nothing.

NO MORE PANIC MOVES for this franchise. NO MORE AVERAGE PLAYERS at big money long term deals. It hasn't worked and won't work.

You don't add Boozer and then try to sign Joe Johnson and retain Lee and go with

LOL

Lee
Boozer
Gallo
JoeJohnson
Duhon

The hell kind of team is THAT!? Please god no. Yet, what's been mentioned in this thread so far, has the potential to send us right down that type of path.

I want a GREAT TEAM down the road and if it means sucking next season (which we will) and potentially losing Lee or Nate for nothing? So be it. This franchise cannot afford to be held hostage like this: Panicking to sign Lee. Panicking to S&T him for a long term contract so we can say "well, we got SOMETHING". Using our well deserved cap space on average to mid-tier star power. It leads NO WHERE. No thanks. Seen it before.
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SupremeCommander
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6/15/2009  3:30 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

this is what I think happens

Lee 8 million
Gortat MLE
Draft a PG

PG Duhon/Curry or Flynn or Jennings
SG Hughes
SF Chandler/Gallo
PF Lee/Gallo
C Gortat

That will put them at 33-35 million in cap space and still be enough to pursue one top level FA, like Joe Johnson and enough to for a sidekick too.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 06-15-2009 1:38 PM]

Yeah, that math is not correct.

Keep in mind, in rough terms, I have other posts where I break it down specifically:

Curry 11M
Jeffries 6M
Gallo 4.5m
Chandler 3M
#1 Draft Pick 3.5M
= 28M
Assuming cap is $64M, that leaves $36m in salary cap space (assuming we fill the roster with 2nd rd picks)

8M to Lee and 6M to Gortat means we have $22M for FAs in 2010. That's 1 FA. If you want Lee in 2010, you need to get rid of Curry or Jeffries. As far as I am concerned, there can be no consideration to re-signing Lee until you get rid of the other two. I want two 2010 FAs more than Lee. $36m is maybe two max FAs-- depending on their experience.

If I'm not mistaken the most the Knicks can offer is defined by the collective bargaining agreement and is about $15 million for the first year and escalates each year. That leaves about $7 million a year for that first year salary. So do I think the Knicks could sign Joe Johnson and a FA comparable to Mike Miller or Steve Nash for $22 million/year? Yes, yes I do.



[Edited by - supremecommander on 06-15-2009 3:33 PM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
MS
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6/15/2009  3:40 PM
Gortat isn't getting a big multi year offer, I am sure we can get him for half of the mid-level for a couple of years, you need a big to bang and defend.

I maybe dreaming but I really think that Eddy Curry knows his future is in trouble, not his basketball future but his overal future and when Eddy needs a contract Eddy gets in shape. This guy can be effective for 20 mins a night in mikes offense. We have to go pg in the draft Curry/Flynn is fine with me.
Vmart
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6/15/2009  3:54 PM
Gortat isn't that good people he is a backup. He is well protected by Howard and needs to come in for a few minutes at a time and give max effort. There is no way he can be a 35-40 minutes a game type of player. Don't waste money if you can't anything real good.
TMS
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6/15/2009  6:27 PM
seriously, what is this fascination w/Gortat? i just don't see it... he's like a Euro version of Chris Dudley if u ask me... i would never use up the MLE on that guy... LLE signing at best IMO.
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TMS
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6/15/2009  6:29 PM
as for the other choices in the original post, the only FA i would be considering seriously is Ramon Sessions, or maybe that Cabezas cat from Spain... that is if we're drafting something other than a PG in this draft... otherwise just keep the cap space... the rest of these guys are not worth using up the amount of cap it would take to sign them w/2010 being the main goal Donnie's focusing on.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EwingsGlass
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6/15/2009  8:28 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

this is what I think happens

Lee 8 million
Gortat MLE
Draft a PG

PG Duhon/Curry or Flynn or Jennings
SG Hughes
SF Chandler/Gallo
PF Lee/Gallo
C Gortat

That will put them at 33-35 million in cap space and still be enough to pursue one top level FA, like Joe Johnson and enough to for a sidekick too.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 06-15-2009 1:38 PM]

Yeah, that math is not correct.

Keep in mind, in rough terms, I have other posts where I break it down specifically:

Curry 11M
Jeffries 6M
Gallo 4.5m
Chandler 3M
#1 Draft Pick 3.5M
= 28M
Assuming cap is $64M, that leaves $36m in salary cap space (assuming we fill the roster with 2nd rd picks)

8M to Lee and 6M to Gortat means we have $22M for FAs in 2010. That's 1 FA. If you want Lee in 2010, you need to get rid of Curry or Jeffries. As far as I am concerned, there can be no consideration to re-signing Lee until you get rid of the other two. I want two 2010 FAs more than Lee. $36m is maybe two max FAs-- depending on their experience.

If I'm not mistaken the most the Knicks can offer is defined by the collective bargaining agreement and is about $15 million for the first year and escalates each year. That leaves about $7 million a year for that first year salary. So do I think the Knicks could sign Joe Johnson and a FA comparable to Mike Miller or Steve Nash for $22 million/year? Yes, yes I do.



[Edited by - supremecommander on 06-15-2009 3:33 PM]

Yeah, but you'd be wrong in that thinking. Vets with 7 or more years experience have a max salary of 30% of the cap. 30% x $64m = $19.2M for a max contract for any of the big FAs.

Even if your logic was right, if Nash and Joe Johnson couldn't win with Marion and Stoudemire in Phoenix, what makes you think those two, years later, could do it with David Lee and Wilson Chandler. Nah, I think the bet is for the big time. You need to try and make the move for two max players. Loyalty for Lee is one thing. Building a franchise is another.
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SupremeCommander
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6/15/2009  9:06 PM
man I got skewered
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Nalod
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6/16/2009  10:29 AM
Me thinks there are players that MDA can visualize being in his system and would elevate their game.

Likewise there are GM's that love Dlee but also recognize his numbers are great in the MDA system and might not translate on their teams.

Getting players at a good price is the key. I would think JJ redick would cost less than Nate and might be a better player for MDA than nate. Reddick is like "Thunder" Dan Marley type of player. Streak shooter, can take it to the whole and dish it on the way.

Gortat is a running shot blocker. If DLee is expensive, this guy might come at half the price as a ROLE player.

Assets and choices are what we have.

The big key is getting big eddy in game shape.
LivingLegend
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6/16/2009  11:40 AM
Posted by purple012870:

Hedu, Odom, Lee, Boozer, Milsap, Ariza, Gortat, Nate, Villanueva, Sessions....I'm sure I am missing some. And there are 3 teams w/ cap room. There will be some major FA discounts available via the MLE. I'd probably prefer to split the MLE on Gortat & Sessions than use $8mm on Lee.

Let's say the Knicks have the choice of:

-re-signing Lee to 8mm per AND Nate to 4mm per

OR

-re-signing Lee to 8mm per & letting Nate walk

OR

-targeting Villanuava or even Odom for the MLE & either letting Lee and/or Nate walk or keeping the radar up for S&T possibilities

OR

-targeting Gortat & Sessions for the (split) MLE & either letting Lee and/or Nate walk or keeping the radar up for S&T possibilities

I like the sound of the latter 2.

Leads to:

C: Gortat/Curry
PF: Chandler
SF: Gallo/Harrington
SG: Hughes (only until a draft pick can displace him), Derozan
PG: Sessions/Duhon

w/ the following trade assets:

-3mm to buy picks targeting guys like: Casspi, Mills, Heyfelt, Beaubois

-the insured Mobley contract

-Nate, Lee S&T potential

All things considered...age, talent & contract.

I think Charlie V is the most legitimate target mentioned and he's perfect in this system.

Charlie V is a guy with enough talent to be a big time playoff scorer.
nyk4ever
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6/16/2009  11:44 AM
I think we have to throw the TMac rumors in here.

If we trade for TMac and don't give up either Curry or Jeffries in the process it's a huge gigantic massive BLUNDER.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
martin
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6/16/2009  11:52 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

I think we have to throw the TMac rumors in here.

If we trade for TMac and don't give up either Curry or Jeffries in the process it's a huge gigantic massive BLUNDER.

yeah agreed. I don't see why the knicks would just match expiring salary for expiring salary. Don't make sense.
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sebstar
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6/16/2009  12:36 PM
Posted by TMS:

seriously, what is this fascination w/Gortat? i just don't see it... he's like a Euro version of Chris Dudley if u ask me... i would never use up the MLE on that guy... LLE signing at best IMO.

lol...Knick fans right now are the ugly ass broad at the bar during last call. just desperate as hell, especially for a big man. Gortat?? Get real, guys.
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