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Knicks prefer Rubio over Griffin and 7-foot 3 Thabeet - Per the New York Post
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joec32033
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5/17/2009  8:57 PM
If we take Griffin, are we trading Lee for a C or a PG?
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fishmike
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5/17/2009  9:02 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Rubio got bumped and had an MRI on his hip that came back somewhat positive. Wait until he gets bumped in the NBA--calling Tractor Traylor for summer league action by the Celtics Nets multi squad team who face the Knicks and their new ace Ricky Rubio aka la proxima cosa grande
and Thabeet gets embarrassed everytime he's got to a guard a 6'6 post player from Pit.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
PresIke
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5/17/2009  9:19 PM
wow, some of us could benefit from some meditation perhaps? keep playing chicken little as you wish, but the there are so many negative vibes about this completely hypothetical prospect that it feels like dick cheney is influencing this forum.

briggs, your anti-foriegn player stance is about as closed minded as it gets, and disappoints me based on the respect i have for your analysis of many other things b-ball.

rubio is pretty much a consensus top 2 pick, and folks are gonna go crazy if we take him at 2?

so, if jackie robinson got hurt in his rookie season, by your logic, therefore all black players would be frail.

am i the only one who sees this?

i think some folks here could replace berman just fine with the silliness that is being spewed as rational analysis, which is even more disappointing given the amount of thought and well articulated arguments that seems to go into other areas of the game and other things that some of the posters i am referring to.

sorry, if this is insulting. i'm not trying to attack you personally, just saying, c'mon you all should know better.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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5/17/2009  9:22 PM
why would we believe what gets reported as in the tabloid papers on these sorts of completely wishy washy, potential counter-intelligence stories from the Knicks for all we know?

c'mon.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BRIGGS
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5/17/2009  9:25 PM
Posted by PresIke:

wow, some of us could benefit from some meditation perhaps? keep playing chicken little as you wish, but the there are so many negative vibes about this completely hypothetical prospect that it feels like dick cheney is influencing this forum.

briggs, your anti-foriegn player stance is about as closed minded as it gets, and disappoints me based on the respect i have for your analysis of many other things b-ball.

rubio is pretty much a consensus top 2 pick, and folks are gonna go crazy if we take him at 2?

so, if jackie robinson got hurt in his rookie season, by your logic, therefore all black players would be frail.

am i the only one who sees this?

i think some folks here could replace berman just fine with the silliness that is being spewed as rational analysis, which is even more disappointing given the amount of thought and well articulated arguments that seems to go into other areas of the game and other things that some of the posters i am referring to.

sorry, if this is insulting. i'm not trying to attack you personally, just saying, c'mon you all should know better.

I like Curry way better than Rubio. If the Knicks get pick 2 they should trade it for 2-3 number 1 picks to a team that is high in the draft and loves Rubio. Id trade it to Minnesota for 5 and 17 and one of Minnesota's 2010 picks. Rubio is NOT Magic Johnson.
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PresIke
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5/17/2009  9:37 PM
i have no problem with one liking curry over rubio, although i don't agree. it's more about the arguments that are being made as to what's "wrong" or will happen with him when he comes to the nba, which seem based on a very strong negative bias against foreign players, that perhaps worsened for some knick fans after:

A) we never had any foreign players contribute much to the team, and one of the most infamous was weiss over local hero artest, and then the gallo injury.

B) complete myths about foreign players being "soft," or whatever else, which is one of those fan labels that is very subjective/arbitrary and often based on perception rather than reality.

i could go on, but rubio can play, and i am almost baffled at someone with the keen level of observation of other players i read from you, that you hold such a negative view of him.

also...

just based on the problem with any real basis for this story (i.e. counterintelligence)

think about why the knicks might WANT OTHER TEAMS OR THEIR OWN FREE AGENTS (hint, hint) to think they will take rubio over anyone else, especially griffen, and given what position he plays.



[Edited by - PresIke on 05-17-2009 9:37 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-17-2009 9:39 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Pharzeone
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5/17/2009  9:41 PM
Posted by PresIke:

wow, some of us could benefit from some meditation perhaps? keep playing chicken little as you wish, but the there are so many negative vibes about this completely hypothetical prospect that it feels like dick cheney is influencing this forum.

briggs, your anti-foriegn player stance is about as closed minded as it gets, and disappoints me based on the respect i have for your analysis of many other things b-ball.

rubio is pretty much a consensus top 2 pick, and folks are gonna go crazy if we take him at 2?

so, if jackie robinson got hurt in his rookie season, by your logic, therefore all black players would be frail.

am i the only one who sees this?

i think some folks here could replace berman just fine with the silliness that is being spewed as rational analysis, which is even more disappointing given the amount of thought and well articulated arguments that seems to go into other areas of the game and other things that some of the posters i am referring to.

sorry, if this is insulting. i'm not trying to attack you personally, just saying, c'mon you all should know better.

So let me get this straight. It's ok to have an adverse opinion about an American player like people have with Griffin but if they question a foreign born player then that is discrimination of some kind. So what was the problem with foreign born player Anthony Randolph? Let's keep it basketball related. Thanks.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
PresIke
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5/17/2009  10:09 PM
telling one to keep it about basketball doesn't help further the discussion, which IS more about just basketball. sports have always been that way. jackie robinson was a real person and athlete that faced bias against him based on his racial identity. are you really suggesting that foreign players are viewed with the same lens from many american sports fans the same as u.s. bred/ncaa hoops players? whether one wishes to think about why labeling an entire group one way or another is actually the total opposite of being basketball related is up to the individual, but it also does not mean i can't call folks out for arguably unfair and discriminatory ways of labeling people.

i did not say one can't have a reason for being against a non-american player, but if anyone is not keeping it about basketball it most certainly is not me who started things, in this case.

i am asking folks to try and look at rubio a little bit more free from stereotypes (or at least admit on some level that because either you haven't seen much of him, not in the ncaa/american b-ball system, etc. that this MIGHT be a bias...i've asked folks multiple times to answer such questions without getting a direct answer) because i think it seems pretty odd that in today's nba, with many foreign players being successful and the scouting MUCH better on them now, that some of these arguments against such players are clearly not very strongly supported, where people pick and choose individual examples that suit such stereotypes, while ignoring others that contradict this view.

i'm guess i'm not getting where anyone was having an "dverse opinion" on griffen or being biased against him because he is american? i pick griffen #1, but i can understand why someone might take rubio #1 too, even if it is not so likely, i think.

where is the negative bias against griffen coming based on his being american?

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-17-2009 10:19 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
oohah
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5/17/2009  10:13 PM
Posted by Paladin55:

Might want to lay off the PEDs too.

What's a PED?

***

Okay, snap poll: Who will be better as a pro: Blake Griffin or Brian Bosworth?

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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5/17/2009  10:16 PM
Someone please tell me what makes Rubio so hot?

Unacceptable answer: "Poise"

Can he shoot or score really well like Tony Parker?
Is he great at running a team and an unbelievable passer like Jose Calderon?
Is he a gifted defensive player and outstanding athlete like Rondo?

What makes him so good? Somebody tell me.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 17-05-2009 10:16 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nixluva
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5/17/2009  10:22 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by nixluva:

If the knicks get the #1 and they prefer Rubio over Griffin I'd assume that Walsh would have his reasons. Is Griffin really a game changer for this team? I think Griffin's an impressive player but still I wonder about his real impact on a team at the next level.

Someone like a CP3, Rose or Deron has a huge impact on the entire team. Perhaps that should have a higher value to a team unless you're talkin a Duncan, which I don't feel Griffin is.

But you somehow feel that Rubio is on CP3's level though after watching him for how many games?

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about Rubio being on CP3's level. I was making the point that If Walsh feels that Rubio is a CP3 or Nash type of player then he should choose him over a player like Griffin.

Unless you have a DOMINANT big like Duncan, Shaq etc. I'm not convinced that Griffin is that kind of big. He may be really good, but just how good is unclear. is Griffin the anchor to future NBA championship teams? I don't really think so from what i've seen. I think we know that more than we know what Rubio is, but if Walsh is looking at the upside of what Rubio could become, maybe he feels he could be a Championship anchor PG.

Just cuz WE don't get to see all of Rubio's games doesn't mean that the Knicks are as unclear about what he is. So don't be so quick to judge the Knicks would be making a mistake, when clearly even you don't know anything about Rubio either. In this matter I trust Walsh and his scouts more than anyone on this board.
PresIke
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5/17/2009  10:25 PM
oohah, rubio's ability has been discussed ad nauseum here over the past weeks, so i'm personally not up for the task of explaining too much, but sites like draft express do a good job of showing why, for the most part.

basically, he is the best passer in the draft, with amazing vision/creativity with the ball, high b-ball iq, maturity, and a personality that shows a super-starish quality while having success/demonstrated ability (including in the clutch) to do well at high levels of pro international ball, including against the u.s. olympic team last summer. and the dude is 18 years old (he did much of this while 17...his age when he played in the olympics).

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-17-2009 10:27 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
GKFv2
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5/17/2009  10:25 PM
Posted by oohah:

Someone please tell me what makes Rubio so hot?

Unacceptable answer: "Poise"

Can he shoot or score really well like Tony Parker?
Is he great at running a team and an unbelievable passer like Jose Calderon?
Is he a gifted defensive player and outstanding athlete like Rondo?

What makes him so good? Somebody tell me.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 17-05-2009 10:16 PM]

I didn't know Tony Parker was that good coming into the league. Same goes for Calderon and Rondo. I guess Rubio should come in ready to be a star point guard or else he sucks. That's too bad.
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oohah
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5/17/2009  10:28 PM
Posted by PresIke:

oohah, rubio's ability has been discussed ad nauseum here over the past weeks, so i'm personally not up for the task of explaining, but sites like draft express do a good job of showing why, for the most part.

basically, he is the best passer in the draft, with amazing vision/creativity with the ball, high b-ball iq, maturity, and a personality that shows a super-starish quality while having success/demonstrated ability (including in the clutch) to do well at high levels of pro international ball, including against the u.s. olympic team last summer. and the dude is 18 years old.

How many of those discussions were conducted by people who have actually watched this guy play enough time to evaluate him for real?

I'll bet that the extent that most of us watched him the exact same amount: In the Olympics where he looked like a nice player but was not even as impressive s the other Spaniard who played for Memphis (Can't remember his name.)

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Pharzeone
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5/17/2009  10:28 PM
Posted by oohah:

Someone please tell me what makes Rubio so hot?

Unacceptable answer: "Poise"

Can he shoot or score really well like Tony Parker?
Is he great at running a team and an unbelievable passer like Jose Calderon?
Is he a gifted defensive player and outstanding athlete like Rondo?

What makes him so good? Somebody tell me.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 17-05-2009 10:16 PM]

Because some people said he is similar to Clyde Frazier. Don't ask me how they come to that conclusion but it seems they have. But mainly because he had a couple of good games against the Redeem team in the Olympics. Although Carlos Delfino had better games, I doubt you will hear many fans screaming for him to come to the Knicks.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nyk4ever
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5/17/2009  10:32 PM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by oohah:

Someone please tell me what makes Rubio so hot?

Unacceptable answer: "Poise"

Can he shoot or score really well like Tony Parker?
Is he great at running a team and an unbelievable passer like Jose Calderon?
Is he a gifted defensive player and outstanding athlete like Rondo?

What makes him so good? Somebody tell me.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 17-05-2009 10:16 PM]

I didn't know Tony Parker was that good coming into the league. Same goes for Calderon and Rondo. I guess Rubio should come in ready to be a star point guard or else he sucks. That's too bad.

Totally agree dude. We got people also saying he's NO Magic Johnson.

What expectations.
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Pharzeone
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5/17/2009  10:39 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by nixluva:

If the knicks get the #1 and they prefer Rubio over Griffin I'd assume that Walsh would have his reasons. Is Griffin really a game changer for this team? I think Griffin's an impressive player but still I wonder about his real impact on a team at the next level.

Someone like a CP3, Rose or Deron has a huge impact on the entire team. Perhaps that should have a higher value to a team unless you're talkin a Duncan, which I don't feel Griffin is.

But you somehow feel that Rubio is on CP3's level though after watching him for how many games?

Nowhere in my post did I say anything about Rubio being on CP3's level. I was making the point that If Walsh feels that Rubio is a CP3 or Nash type of player then he should choose him over a player like Griffin.

Unless you have a DOMINANT big like Duncan, Shaq etc. I'm not convinced that Griffin is that kind of big. He may be really good, but just how good is unclear. is Griffin the anchor to future NBA championship teams? I don't really think so from what i've seen. I think we know that more than we know what Rubio is, but if Walsh is looking at the upside of what Rubio could become, maybe he feels he could be a Championship anchor PG.

Just cuz WE don't get to see all of Rubio's games doesn't mean that the Knicks are as unclear about what he is. So don't be so quick to judge the Knicks would be making a mistake, when clearly even you don't know anything about Rubio either. In this matter I trust Walsh and his scouts more than anyone on this board.

Yeah trust Walsh. The same guy who made bonehead draft pick after the next with the Pacers. Who was talked out of risking his team chemistry so he could move up to draft Skita on D'Antoni's recommendation. The same guy who gave up a lottery pick to trade for a guy that he previously traded away to only trade him away again. Allowed Isiah to talk him into taking Fred Jones over Tayshaun Prince. I won't even bother to mention Bender because that will give him more writeup than he received him entire brief career. Walsh still throwing out those Larry Bird comparisons. Everyone talks about his Gallinari comparisons but no one reflects back to the ones he used in describing Adam Morrison back in 06. No one is above reproach.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
oohah
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5/17/2009  10:40 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

[quote]Posted by oohah:

I didn't know Tony Parker was that good coming into the league. Same goes for Calderon and Rondo. I guess Rubio should come in ready to be a star point guard or else he sucks. That's too bad.

Perhaps it was a little before your time but Parker was a pretty damn good player as a rookie, was incredible in Europe, and won an NBA championship in I believe his second year. And he wasn't a bystander in that run, he took over games. Rondo and Calderon were both known quantities in what their capabilities were.Rondo went in the bottom third and I beleive calderon went undrafted.

And I fail to see your point. I asked what it is that everybody is so excited about, specifically in this forum. I ask that because I am pretty sure we all have just about the same amount of experience watching him which was in the Olympics and some youtube highlights, maybe.

So can you tell me why everyone is so excited about him? Because your reply had nothing to do with my question? OKay, I'll give you someone who was really really good in college: Kirk Hinrich. What makes him better than Kirk Hinrich.

You really haven't seen Rubio play much have you?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nixluva
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5/17/2009  10:41 PM
You have to imagine that scouts who have seen all the games Rubio has played and who's job it is to project how a players talents should progress in the future have some idea of what they're talking about. We know one thing about MDA and that is he requires a PG who has a HIGH BB IQ, is fearless, can shoot and make his teammates better. The better the PG, the better his system works, so why not have an eye out for PG's who have the right skills to be a success in his system?

Now if they feel that Griffin is a lock superstar big, it would make things a bit tougher, but I get the idea that MDA's system is less reliant on a big post presence, so there would naturally be less of a premium put on that. it could also be that the Knicks feel they can get a good big who is proven somewhere else. So going after the PG in this draft would make sense.
oohah
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5/17/2009  10:44 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by oohah:

Someone please tell me what makes Rubio so hot?

Unacceptable answer: "Poise"

Can he shoot or score really well like Tony Parker?
Is he great at running a team and an unbelievable passer like Jose Calderon?
Is he a gifted defensive player and outstanding athlete like Rondo?

What makes him so good? Somebody tell me.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 17-05-2009 10:16 PM]

I didn't know Tony Parker was that good coming into the league. Same goes for Calderon and Rondo. I guess Rubio should come in ready to be a star point guard or else he sucks. That's too bad.

Totally agree dude. We got people also saying he's NO Magic Johnson.

What expectations.

You get picked #2 as a 19 year old you better be ready to step in and make some noise especially in this city. This kid is so hyped. All I have seen from him qualifies him a nice prospect. Hardly the next "..." or whatever.

If the Knicks have a top 5 pick they should pick star talent. I'm just wondering what Rubio's star talent is because in the limited time I have seen him play I have not witnessed it. I'm tired of hearing about "Poise".

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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