Posted by franco12:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by subzero0:

Posted by franco12:

I'm watching the playoffs here and the teams left - are we going to get to their level after 2010? Even if we get LeBron, what kind of supporting cast do we have?

These teams left playing have all stars and have been built over several years.

In my opinion, 2010 starts the rebuilding, and that at that point, you're looking at a five year plan.

Franco you are one of the few around here who is actually thinking.

The only way to build up this team is through the draft and trying to get a top pick. We are not going to get anyone in the 2010 free agent market that will get us to a championship.

[Edited by - subzero0 on 05-15-2009 1:01 PM]

Yes I have to agree with you guys. I recall when Walsh traded Randolph and Crawford all the threads around here were lit up with "We got LeBron now!" talk etc. As if we were guaranteed to land those stars.

If I recall correctly, subzero (Or swish) was one of the few guys to not take the approach that the Knicks were absolutely guaranteed a savior/superstar and got bashed mercilessly for it.

I agree subzero. I see no reason that LeBron or Wade will show up here when they will get more $$ from their own teams and they will have much better players already in place.

I also agree that the Knicks only real hope is to land a superstar through the draft. It does happen, after all! Then, with the tons of cash built up, the Knicks could land some complimentary players. I think that is a more realistic scenario than landing James or Wade, but it depends on getting really lucky in the draft.

oohah

the issue I have with Walsh - and I'm a broken record with this - is the Crawford trade. I don't understand how he couldn't have gotten back a future first round pick from a play off bound team & filler for Crawford.

Instead, Walsh wanted to have his cake and eat it too - just like Isiah- he wanted cap room, but he wanted to try to stay being good.

Revisit the Crawford trade & rather than Harrington, lets say we got back garbage that still ended before 2010 & a late/mid first round pick.

We'd have lost more games this year and probably been able to get a better pick ourselves this year.

Rather than take a step back to try to get unstuck and move forward, we continue to press forward blindly without really positioning ourselves for future success.

And this is why I am worrying that the Walsh era is going to end just better than the Isiah era, but still without setting a realistic foundation for future success.

let me ask you... why couldn't Detroit get a first rounder for Chauncy, who is a MUCH better player than Crawford?

Because that's the going rate. Which team is going to trade cap space and a first rounder for a low FG% shooting, non-defending SG? No one.

Posted by martin:

Posted by franco12:

Posted by oohah:

Posted by subzero0:

Posted by franco12:

I'm watching the playoffs here and the teams left - are we going to get to their level after 2010? Even if we get LeBron, what kind of supporting cast do we have?

These teams left playing have all stars and have been built over several years.

In my opinion, 2010 starts the rebuilding, and that at that point, you're looking at a five year plan.

Franco you are one of the few around here who is actually thinking.

The only way to build up this team is through the draft and trying to get a top pick. We are not going to get anyone in the 2010 free agent market that will get us to a championship.

[Edited by - subzero0 on 05-15-2009 1:01 PM]

Yes I have to agree with you guys. I recall when Walsh traded Randolph and Crawford all the threads around here were lit up with "We got LeBron now!" talk etc. As if we were guaranteed to land those stars.

If I recall correctly, subzero (Or swish) was one of the few guys to not take the approach that the Knicks were absolutely guaranteed a savior/superstar and got bashed mercilessly for it.

I agree subzero. I see no reason that LeBron or Wade will show up here when they will get more $$ from their own teams and they will have much better players already in place.

I also agree that the Knicks only real hope is to land a superstar through the draft. It does happen, after all! Then, with the tons of cash built up, the Knicks could land some complimentary players. I think that is a more realistic scenario than landing James or Wade, but it depends on getting really lucky in the draft.

oohah

the issue I have with Walsh - and I'm a broken record with this - is the Crawford trade. I don't understand how he couldn't have gotten back a future first round pick from a play off bound team & filler for Crawford.

Instead, Walsh wanted to have his cake and eat it too - just like Isiah- he wanted cap room, but he wanted to try to stay being good.

Revisit the Crawford trade & rather than Harrington, lets say we got back garbage that still ended before 2010 & a late/mid first round pick.

We'd have lost more games this year and probably been able to get a better pick ourselves this year.

Rather than take a step back to try to get unstuck and move forward, we continue to press forward blindly without really positioning ourselves for future success.

And this is why I am worrying that the Walsh era is going to end just better than the Isiah era, but still without setting a realistic foundation for future success.

let me ask you... why couldn't Detroit get a first rounder for Chauncy, who is a MUCH better player than Crawford?

Because that's the going rate. Which team is going to trade cap space and a first rounder for a low FG% shooting, non-defending SG? No one.

because they got back Allen Iverson, who is a MUCH better player than Al Harrington.

i don't think it's unreasonable to think we could've gotten back a late 1st round pick & an expiring for Jamal in the least... Walsh wanted to stay competitive & get his cap space at the same time just like franco pointed out... this is because we have an owner who is mandating that this team try & stay competitive regardless of the roster moves they make... look at all the hyped fans in NY & on this forum who thought this team was on its way to the playoffs after that trade was made? that kinda hype sells tickets & renews fans' enthusiasm in their team... not many fans are sensible enough with the long range vision it takes to know that a trade for cap space & draft picks today will likely help their fluttering franchise more in the long run than quick fix stop gap solutions.

this is why the Knicks never go all out on a tank by making roster moves to position themselves for an eventual chance at an elite talent in the NBA draft, & why we as fans are never able to talk about the Blake Griffin's or Ricky Rubio's every single year & instead have to settle for the Michael Sweetney's & Channing Frye's... unless this team gets extremely lucky in the draft this year, they're banking all their hopes on landing a topnotch FA or two in 2010, & at the same time they expect to compete for a playoff berth along the way, very hard to do in today's NBA... as we've seen over history, the bigger success stories involve being horrendously bad for a period of time, thereby landing top talent in the draft, & then making roster moves for bigtime talent to compete for a championship... the way the Knicks are going about it just goes to show a complete lack of sensible management at the highest level.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by martin:

let me ask you... why couldn't Detroit get a first rounder for Chauncy, who is a MUCH better player than Crawford?

Because that's the going rate. Which team is going to trade cap space and a first rounder for a low FG% shooting, non-defending SG? No one.

because they got back Allen Iverson, who is a MUCH better player than Al Harrington.

i don't think it's unreasonable to think we could've gotten back a late 1st round pick & an expiring for Jamal in the least...

Posted by nixluva:

Someone explain to me why we can't get a D Wade? What's so compelling about the Heat situation? I think we'd automatically be a better team than the Heat with just adding Wade! In the NBA you're always just a trade away from relevance. We add Wade and it becomes much easier to recruit the next star. That's the way Boston has changed the game. I think our chances are very good.

Posted by oohah:

Posted by subzero0:

Posted by franco12:

I'm watching the playoffs here and the teams left - are we going to get to their level after 2010? Even if we get LeBron, what kind of supporting cast do we have?

These teams left playing have all stars and have been built over several years.

In my opinion, 2010 starts the rebuilding, and that at that point, you're looking at a five year plan.

Franco you are one of the few around here who is actually thinking.

The only way to build up this team is through the draft and trying to get a top pick. We are not going to get anyone in the 2010 free agent market that will get us to a championship.

[Edited by - subzero0 on 05-15-2009 1:01 PM]

Yes I have to agree with you guys. I recall when Walsh traded Randolph and Crawford all the threads around here were lit up with "We got LeBron now!" talk etc. As if we were guaranteed to land those stars.

If I recall correctly, subzero (Or swish) was one of the few guys to not take the approach that the Knicks were absolutely guaranteed a savior/superstar and got bashed mercilessly for it.

I agree subzero. I see no reason that LeBron or Wade will show up here when they will get more $$ from their own teams and they will have much better players already in place.

I also agree that the Knicks only real hope is to land a superstar through the draft. It does happen, after all! Then, with the tons of cash built up, the Knicks could land some complimentary players. I think that is a more realistic scenario than landing James or Wade, but it depends on getting really lucky in the draft.

oohah

Yep, my only hope at this moment is the Knicks get a really good lottery pick. My full attention will be on this draft lottery.

I've constantly preached that LeBron and Wade are going nowhere.

Wade for reasons as stated above and LeBron b/c he's on a championship contending team with a group of guys he LOVES. Maybe the Knicks can provide a cast he can play with just as much, but he LOVES the guys he's with now and that speaks a lot.

To top it off, he plays in Cleveland which is just a half hour away from his hometown. The only thing he doesn't have is a big media market, which can be good and can be bad. However, he can get endorsements crawling all over him, even if he lives in Montana. And now, LeBron is slowly saying to the media that he might want to stay.

None of those guys will even sniff NY, especially if NY has another bad year this season, which is entirely possible.

Posted by TMS:

some of u guys consistently miss the point even tho it's been explained time & time again... even if Lebron or Wade don't end up signing here, the main plan for 2010 is to gain cap flexibility so that major roster moves can be made... there are other bignames out there that Donnie will definitely be targetting... names like Amare, Nash, Johnson are obvious ones that stand out... not to mention the fact that cap flexibility allows u to make trades from a position of strength instead of weakness, so we can take on a big contract from another team & no longer have to match the dollars w/crap contracts... who knows what players will become available to us in a trade in 2 years' time? no one... to say that our only chance at attaining a franchise player is through the draft is just plain wrong... there are different ways to give yourself OPTIONS... having options is what Donnie is going after... right now we don't have any but to try & shed some of these dead contracts off our payroll.

Posted by TMS:

some of u guys consistently miss the point even tho it's been explained time & time again... even if Lebron or Wade don't end up signing here, the main plan for 2010 is to gain cap flexibility so that major roster moves can be made... there are other bignames out there that Donnie will definitely be targetting... names like Amare, Nash, Johnson are obvious ones that stand out... not to mention the fact that cap flexibility allows u to make trades from a position of strength instead of weakness, so we can take on a big contract from another team & no longer have to match the dollars w/crap contracts... who knows what players will become available to us in a trade in 2 years' time? no one... to say that our only chance at attaining a franchise player is through the draft is just plain wrong... there are different ways to give yourself OPTIONS... having options is what Donnie is going after... right now we don't have any but to try & shed some of these dead contracts off our payroll.