[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Dwight Howard is maaaaaaad
Author Thread
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
5/13/2009  4:19 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

DHoward may very well be right about Van Gundy, I just have a problem with him saying all this stuff in the papers.

Yeah, I do too. I think it is out of character for him which is more alarming to what is going on in that organization.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
AUTOADVERT
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
5/13/2009  4:46 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:

“I have to get the ball,” Howard said. “I don’t think you are going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots. It’s tough to get yourself going and get a lot of shots without a lot of touches. We have to get better with that.”


What is this guy talking about? he averaged 12 (shots per game) on the season, and now 10 is no good? i don't understand where he is coming from. also, when you barely shoot 60% free throws and have a questionable post game, i don't know how you can be a franchise go-to guy.



[Edited by - orangeblobman on 05-13-2009 1:00 PM]
Statistically, 60% FT shooting doesn't really hurt your team. It corresponds to 1.2 points per possession, which is decent, and gets the opponent in foul trouble. (It just doesn't *help* the team as much as trips to the foul line by an ordinary shooter does.) 50% does hurt your team, though, as it would correspond to only about 1 point per possession.

12 shots per game is far too few IMO for someone as efficient as him to get in the regular season anyway. Big men are at the mercy of the cooperation of their guards on offense.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
5/13/2009  4:49 PM
good for Dwight... i think he's well w/in his rights to bitch about not getting the ball... he's their best player by a long shot.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
5/13/2009  4:58 PM
Posted by TMS:

good for Dwight... i think he's well w/in his rights to bitch about not getting the ball... he's their best player by a long shot.

I don't have a problem with him bitching about not getting the ball, but I do have a problem with him bitching about not getting the ball to the media. That just opens up a whole nother can of worms for not only himself but the whole team.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
martin
Posts: 79870
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
5/13/2009  6:00 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by orangeblobman:

“I have to get the ball,” Howard said. “I don’t think you are going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots. It’s tough to get yourself going and get a lot of shots without a lot of touches. We have to get better with that.”


What is this guy talking about? he averaged 12 (shots per game) on the season, and now 10 is no good? i don't understand where he is coming from. also, when you barely shoot 60% free throws and have a questionable post game, i don't know how you can be a franchise go-to guy.



[Edited by - orangeblobman on 05-13-2009 1:00 PM]
Statistically, 60% FT shooting doesn't really hurt your team. It corresponds to 1.2 points per possession, which is decent, and gets the opponent in foul trouble. (It just doesn't *help* the team as much as trips to the foul line by an ordinary shooter does.) 50% does hurt your team, though, as it would correspond to only about 1 point per possession.

It surely does. you have to compare it to what the AVERAGE FT% is for players. Isn't the Average somewhere near 75%, which corresponds to 1.5 points per possession.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Paladin55
Posts: 24321
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/6/2008
Member: #2098

5/13/2009  6:10 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

I dunno what happened to my post but I was agreeing with orange.....

Im annoyed with howard calling himself dominant....he's not dominant. Shaq, David Robinson, Ewing....those guys were dominant. Howard need a tall cup of stfu and a side order of balls because he doesn't have any. He needs to man up and take control if he's so dominant. That's why I can't stand the nba sometimes.

[Edited by - enyspree on 13-05-2009 3:26 PM]

He does not have that "auto-pilot" shot or shots that many of the great big men have, and he does not seem like a guy who can just bully himself to the basket.

Lets face it, though, you know that the big guys need the little guys to spoon feed them. Howard is not a great ball handler, and is not good at creating his own shot from more than 10 ft. from the basket. The best he can do is tough it out and get superior position and hope one of his feeders gets him the ball.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
Posts: 24321
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/6/2008
Member: #2098

5/13/2009  6:11 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

DHoward may very well be right about Van Gundy, I just have a problem with him saying all this stuff in the papers.

Very true. It does nothing positive for the team to complain to the papers while the series is going on.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 05-13-2009 6:18 PM]
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
EnySpree
Posts: 44919
Alba Posts: 138
Joined: 4/18/2003
Member: #397

5/13/2009  6:30 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by EnySpree:

I dunno what happened to my post but I was agreeing with orange.....

Im annoyed with howard calling himself dominant....he's not dominant. Shaq, David Robinson, Ewing....those guys were dominant. Howard need a tall cup of stfu and a side order of balls because he doesn't have any. He needs to man up and take control if he's so dominant. That's why I can't stand the nba sometimes.

[Edited by - enyspree on 13-05-2009 3:26 PM]

He does not have that "auto-pilot" shot or shots that many of the great big men have, and he does not seem like a guy who can just bully himself to the basket.

Lets face it, though, you know that the big guys need the little guys to spoon feed them. Howard is not a great ball handler, and is not good at creating his own shot from more than 10 ft. from the basket. The best he can do is tough it out and get superior position and hope one of his feeders gets him the ball.

The best he can do....that line sums up his game.

Eddy curry is better than him but the mofo hates the gym. That's what's so frustrating about Curry....if Curry loved the game more than his off the court life he would actually be what Dwight think he is.
Subscribe to my Podcast https://youtube.com/c/DiehardknicksPodcast https://twitter.com/DiehardknicksPC https://instagram.com/diehardknickspodcast
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
5/13/2009  6:49 PM
Van is as good as gone

Dwight needs a go to move or else he simply cant be relied on down the stretch
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
5/13/2009  6:54 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Van is as good as gone

Dwight needs a go to move or else he simply cant be relied on down the stretch

he needs to improve his foul shooting first & foremost, cuz teams are just gonna go to the hack a shaq strategy in crunchtime rather than let him get an easy layup or dunk.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
5/13/2009  7:58 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bippity10:

Van is as good as gone

Dwight needs a go to move or else he simply cant be relied on down the stretch

he needs to improve his foul shooting first & foremost, cuz teams are just gonna go to the hack a shaq strategy in crunchtime rather than let him get an easy layup or dunk.

That too
I just hope that people will like me
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
5/13/2009  9:20 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by orangeblobman:

“I have to get the ball,” Howard said. “I don’t think you are going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots. It’s tough to get yourself going and get a lot of shots without a lot of touches. We have to get better with that.”


What is this guy talking about? he averaged 12 (shots per game) on the season, and now 10 is no good? i don't understand where he is coming from. also, when you barely shoot 60% free throws and have a questionable post game, i don't know how you can be a franchise go-to guy.



[Edited by - orangeblobman on 05-13-2009 1:00 PM]
Statistically, 60% FT shooting doesn't really hurt your team. It corresponds to 1.2 points per possession, which is decent, and gets the opponent in foul trouble. (It just doesn't *help* the team as much as trips to the foul line by an ordinary shooter does.) 50% does hurt your team, though, as it would correspond to only about 1 point per possession.

It surely does. you have to compare it to what the AVERAGE FT% is for players. Isn't the Average somewhere near 75%, which corresponds to 1.5 points per possession.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
No, you have to compare it to what would be most likely to happen if you drew up a different play, which is probably getting a little over 1 point per possession. The fact that the average player is near 75% (yielding 1.5 points per possession on a 2 shot foul) just means that such a scenario is even *more* beneficial to your team. You would compare it to a 75% FT shooter only if the most likely alternative outcome were a 75% free throw shooter getting fouled if Dwight did not get the ball and get fouled. But that's NOT the most likely alternative scenario. The most likely alternative scenario would probably be a missed FG (as more than half of FGs are missed) and would probably be about 1.1 or 1.2 points in any given possession.

Look at it this way:

Making a 3 point shot = 3.0 points for the possession = outstanding possession
Making a 2 point shot = 2.0 points for possession = excellent good possession
75% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.5 points per possession + foul on opponent = very good possession
60% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.2 points per possession + foul on opponent = slightly good possession
Average NBA possession = about 1.2 points per possession (without a foul on opponent) = average possession
50% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.0 points per possession = slightly poor possession
Missed field goal (don't forget this happens more than half the time) = 0.0 points per possession = poor possession

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-13-2009 9:24 PM]
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
5/13/2009  9:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by orangeblobman:

“I have to get the ball,” Howard said. “I don’t think you are going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots. It’s tough to get yourself going and get a lot of shots without a lot of touches. We have to get better with that.”


What is this guy talking about? he averaged 12 (shots per game) on the season, and now 10 is no good? i don't understand where he is coming from. also, when you barely shoot 60% free throws and have a questionable post game, i don't know how you can be a franchise go-to guy.



[Edited by - orangeblobman on 05-13-2009 1:00 PM]
Statistically, 60% FT shooting doesn't really hurt your team. It corresponds to 1.2 points per possession, which is decent, and gets the opponent in foul trouble. (It just doesn't *help* the team as much as trips to the foul line by an ordinary shooter does.) 50% does hurt your team, though, as it would correspond to only about 1 point per possession.

It surely does. you have to compare it to what the AVERAGE FT% is for players. Isn't the Average somewhere near 75%, which corresponds to 1.5 points per possession.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
No, you have to compare it to what would be most likely to happen if you drew up a different play, which is probably getting a little over 1 point per possession. The fact that the average player is near 75% (yielding 1.5 points per possession on a 2 shot foul) just means that such a scenario is even *more* beneficial to your team. You would compare it to a 75% FT shooter only if the most likely alternative outcome were a 75% free throw shooter getting fouled if Dwight did not get the ball and get fouled. But that's NOT the most likely alternative scenario. The most likely alternative scenario would probably be a missed FG (as more than half of FGs are missed) and would probably be about 1.1 or 1.2 points in any given possession.

Look at it this way:

Making a 3 point shot = 3.0 points for the possession = outstanding possession
Making a 2 point shot = 2.0 points for possession = excellent good possession
75% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.5 points per possession + foul on opponent = very good possession
60% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.2 points per possession + foul on opponent = slightly good possession
Average NBA possession = about 1.2 points per possession (without a foul on opponent) = average possession
50% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.0 points per possession = slightly poor possession
Missed field goal (don't forget this happens more than half the time) = 0.0 points per possession = poor possession

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-13-2009 9:24 PM]

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
McK1
Posts: 26527
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/16/2005
Member: #964
5/13/2009  11:07 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Bonn1997:
No, you have to compare it to what would be most likely to happen if you drew up a different play, which is probably getting a little over 1 point per possession. The fact that the average player is near 75% (yielding 1.5 points per possession on a 2 shot foul) just means that such a scenario is even *more* beneficial to your team. You would compare it to a 75% FT shooter only if the most likely alternative outcome were a 75% free throw shooter getting fouled if Dwight did not get the ball and get fouled. But that's NOT the most likely alternative scenario. The most likely alternative scenario would probably be a missed FG (as more than half of FGs are missed) and would probably be about 1.1 or 1.2 points in any given possession.

Look at it this way:

Making a 3 point shot = 3.0 points for the possession = outstanding possession
Making a 2 point shot = 2.0 points for possession = excellent good possession
75% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.5 points per possession + foul on opponent = very good possession
60% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.2 points per possession + foul on opponent = slightly good possession
Average NBA possession = about 1.2 points per possession (without a foul on opponent) = average possession
50% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.0 points per possession = slightly poor possession
Missed field goal (don't forget this happens more than half the time) = 0.0 points per possession = poor possession

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-13-2009 9:24 PM]




these are the numbers SVG is coaching by
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
martin
Posts: 79870
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
5/13/2009  11:25 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by orangeblobman:

“I have to get the ball,” Howard said. “I don’t think you are going to win a lot of games when your post player only gets 10 shots. It’s tough to get yourself going and get a lot of shots without a lot of touches. We have to get better with that.”


What is this guy talking about? he averaged 12 (shots per game) on the season, and now 10 is no good? i don't understand where he is coming from. also, when you barely shoot 60% free throws and have a questionable post game, i don't know how you can be a franchise go-to guy.



[Edited by - orangeblobman on 05-13-2009 1:00 PM]
Statistically, 60% FT shooting doesn't really hurt your team. It corresponds to 1.2 points per possession, which is decent, and gets the opponent in foul trouble. (It just doesn't *help* the team as much as trips to the foul line by an ordinary shooter does.) 50% does hurt your team, though, as it would correspond to only about 1 point per possession.

It surely does. you have to compare it to what the AVERAGE FT% is for players. Isn't the Average somewhere near 75%, which corresponds to 1.5 points per possession.

You are comparing apples and oranges.
No, you have to compare it to what would be most likely to happen if you drew up a different play, which is probably getting a little over 1 point per possession. The fact that the average player is near 75% (yielding 1.5 points per possession on a 2 shot foul) just means that such a scenario is even *more* beneficial to your team. You would compare it to a 75% FT shooter only if the most likely alternative outcome were a 75% free throw shooter getting fouled if Dwight did not get the ball and get fouled. But that's NOT the most likely alternative scenario. The most likely alternative scenario would probably be a missed FG (as more than half of FGs are missed) and would probably be about 1.1 or 1.2 points in any given possession.

Look at it this way:

Making a 3 point shot = 3.0 points for the possession = outstanding possession
Making a 2 point shot = 2.0 points for possession = excellent good possession
75% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.5 points per possession + foul on opponent = very good possession
60% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.2 points per possession + foul on opponent = slightly good possession
Average NBA possession = about 1.2 points per possession (without a foul on opponent) = average possession
50% FT shooter getting fouled = 1.0 points per possession = slightly poor possession
Missed field goal (don't forget this happens more than half the time) = 0.0 points per possession = poor possession

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-13-2009 9:24 PM]

that's all fine and dandy but Howard shooting 60% versus something like the average FT % hurts his team. So yes, his FT shooting hurts his team. 1.5 vs 1.2
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
5/14/2009  4:53 AM
No, it doesn't hurt his team; it just helps his team less than a 75% FT shooter does. Missed FGs and turnovers hurt one's team. Put it this way: Let's say player A makes 80% of his dunks because he has lots of trouble gripping the ball, whereas hypothetically the league average is 99%. (A missed dunk is very rare.) Any play that leads to player A getting a dunk attempt is still a great play even though he's way below the league average. Where's Tomverve?!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-14-2009 04:56 AM]
PresIke
Posts: 27671
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/26/2001
Member: #33
USA
5/14/2009  8:48 AM
yeah, i really like howard, but like shaq was not a go to guy late because of ft shooting, this hurts him, and does he really have a go-to move (i've seen some good ones though)?
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
martin
Posts: 79870
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
5/14/2009  10:19 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

No, it doesn't hurt his team; it just helps his team less than a 75% FT shooter does. Missed FGs and turnovers hurt one's team. Put it this way: Let's say player A makes 80% of his dunks because he has lots of trouble gripping the ball, whereas hypothetically the league average is 99%. (A missed dunk is very rare.) Any play that leads to player A getting a dunk attempt is still a great play even though he's way below the league average. Where's Tomverve?!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-14-2009 04:56 AM]

like I said Bonny, apples and oranges. You are comparing an all-star, mega star to an average player. The whole context of this thread is that Howard wanted the ball at the end of the game with the game on the line. All of the average teams are home right now, and if you are going to demand the ball at the end of the game as Howard has and where the AVERAGE for superstar players is more like 1.5 points per possession, 60% FT shooting hurts.

There is a reason for hack a shaq and hack a Ben.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
5/14/2009  10:22 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bonn1997:

No, it doesn't hurt his team; it just helps his team less than a 75% FT shooter does. Missed FGs and turnovers hurt one's team. Put it this way: Let's say player A makes 80% of his dunks because he has lots of trouble gripping the ball, whereas hypothetically the league average is 99%. (A missed dunk is very rare.) Any play that leads to player A getting a dunk attempt is still a great play even though he's way below the league average. Where's Tomverve?!

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-14-2009 04:56 AM]


like I said Bonny, apples and oranges. You are comparing an all-star, mega star to an average player. The whole context of this thread is that Howard wanted the ball at the end of the game with the game on the line. All of the average teams are home right now, and if you are going to demand the ball at the end of the game as Howard has and where the AVERAGE for superstar players is more like 1.5 points per possession, 60% FT shooting hurts.

There is a reason for hack a shaq and hack a Ben.
What superstars average 1.5 points per possession? You're way off. Or do you mean 1.5 per FT possession? In that case, sure if you could draw up a play in which you were certain that a 75% FT shooter would get fouled (and I do not see how you could do that), then that would be preferable to Dwight getting fouled. Hacking Ben and Shaq works because they shoot closer to 45 or 50%. That's entirely different from 60%.

Quick question: What would you prefer:

A) a missed field goal (the most common outcome of any possession) or
B) Dwight Howard at the free throw line?

It's like it's not registering for you that A is the most common outcome and if you don't get the ball to Dwight (and he obviously doesn't get to the line), A is the most likely outcome instead.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 05-14-2009 10:29 AM]
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
5/14/2009  11:20 AM
Bonn, you're looking WAY too deep into this. It's basketball and not statistics. Yes, you do want to give Howard more possessions. Afterall, he's your best player. However, a couple of things. He doesn't have a move he can consistently rely on. Hence, he's not as DOMINANT as an offensive player as people think. He's a dominant defensive player, but on the other end, he's simply very good. He's not in Shaq's league, offensively and Shaq was dominant. So the fact is, until Dwight develops a go to move and can be more consistent with his post moves, and more fluent, he's not going to be a go to player down the stretch. He's still going to get just as many possessions as Turk and Rashard.

Also, I damn for sure would rather have Turk or Rashard taking a mid range shot than Howard at the line.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Dwight Howard is maaaaaaad

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy