Posted by VDesai:

Posted by TMS:

lol... Steve Nash, Peja & JO are only slightly better than John Wallace? that's a good one bro.

What don't you understand about they couldn't trade up. They COULDN"T PICK ANY OF THOSE GUYS AT THE PICKS THEY HAD

what don't you understand that my point was that i found it hard to believe that we couldn't trade those to move up a few slots? i already said we don't know what went on behind the scenes but come on dude, 3 picks in the 1st round & u can't move up a few slots to take a better prospect? IMO that's a complete failure on the part of Grunfeld.

so let me get this straight... u have a #18, 19 & 21 pick... u don't think it's reasonable to think that if u offered all 3 of those picks to a team picking before us, that you wouldn't have at least 1 taker? the article Pharzeone posted mentioned that Grunfeld was trying to pawn off the #19 & 21 only... IMO i don't think Grunfeld did all he could do to move up if he truly felt that someone like Nash or JO were the guys he really wanted... that's just my feeling, i dunno what actually went on behind the scenes like i said.

if u took exception to whatever i said, i apologize but if u read what i posted after u said we only missed on Big Z, u would already know what i was getting at.

VDesai
Posts: 8702
Alba Posts: 40
Joined: 10-28-2003
Member: #471
USA
04-29-2009 2:01 PM Show Profile Reply with Quote We missed on Zydrunas, otherwise not that big of a deal.

-------------------
http://www.trivialpursuer.blogspot.com
TMS
Posts: 25012
Alba Posts: 389
Joined: 05-11-2004
Member: #668 04-29-2009 2:06 PM Show Profile Edit Post Reply with Quote Delete Reply or maybe we missed on Kobe Bryant? trading a #18, 19 & 21 to move up to 13 could have netted us some majorly different results... of course, hindsight is always 20/20... still it's pretty obvious we royally fugged up that draft.

[Edited by - TMS on 04-29-2009 9:18 PM]

I look at this list:

7 LAC Lorenzen Wright
8 NJN Kerry Kittles
9 DAL Samaki Walker
10 IND Erick Dampier
11 GSW Todd Fuller
12 CLE Vitaly Potapenko

And find it far more compelling as to teams that really screwed the pooch on this particular draft. They had the very real ability to claim a superstar and didn't.

I remember watching that draft. My biggest problem with Grunfeld was taking 3 sfs with the picks. I think they were afraid to take Ilgauskas because he had some foot problems after Cartwrights foot problems in the past. Jones had a bad foot also so they thought he was a long term solution. Terrible drafting by Grunfeld. They should have picked Wallace and Ilgauskas 18, 19 and either McCarty and Jones 21.

Nash and Jermaine O'neil would never have had a chance to develop in NY. Nellie was the coach for the breif moment, but under JVG they would have sat.

Our picks sucked, nobody wanted them!

as always the easiest thing to do is look at a draft years later and say what everyone SHOULD have done differently. keep shooting them fish fellas. there's still a few left in the barrel.

yeah, hindsight is 20/20.

also, given that these were DRAFT PICKS not proven players in the league, trading all 3 picks for 1, at where Kobe was picked (one who Grunfeld claimed to want) is not maximizing risk.

Sure, now all of those players look great, but back then no one knew they would be superstars or very good players. what if he makes that deal and we get a player that busted?

he might be grilled for trading all 3 picks for 1 pick that wasn't even that much higher.

or maybe teams really liked the guys that were higher up and didn't want to move them, or knew the knicks wanted to move 2 of their picks so they asked for a lot in return.

at the time, i believe many thought the knicks did a good job in that draft. all three were top players on winning college programs that fans were familiar with. kobe bryant was not a home run back then, because if so, why did charlotte trade him for divac, who was a good role player, but not THAT good before he ended up boosting his career on the kings.

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/15/sports/on-pro-basketball-quick-as-1-2-3-the-knicks-grab-a-shot-at-a-third-championship.html?scp=3&sq=john%20wallace%20jones%20walter&st=cse

Good things have been happening for the Knicks lately, and in packages of three.

Yesterday, the Knicks formally announced the acquisition of three talented players -- Larry Johnson, Allan Houston and Chris Childs. Last month, the Knicks garnered three quality draft picks -- John Wallace, Dontae' Jones and Walter McCarty.

The Knicks have put themselves in position to contend for the third championship in their history because they have done something that any franchise would envy. They have gotten better. And they have gotten younger.

Knicks management deserves its due for a job well done.

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/1996/06/27/1996-06-27_wallace_falls_to_knicks__fol.html

the Knicks' draft strategy was altered dramatically when Wallace, projected as a top-10 pick, miraculously slipped to No. 18.

"I don't know why he slipped," said team president Ernie Grunfeld, who then tabbed McCarty with the 19th pick and used the 21st to select Jones. "But I'm glad that he did. We had him rated in the top 10 in this draft."

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/07/sports/knicks-sign-their-three-first-rounders.html?scp=1&sq=john%20wallace%20jones%20walter&st=cse

Wallace already has something to prove. He was expected to be a top-10 pick in the National Basketball Association's draft, but dropped to No. 18 after questions circulated about his attitude and desire.

http://www.hostultra.com/~lbrooks2/nba/1996.html

on John Wallace:

THE Steal of the draft that people will be talking about for years to come.

On Walter McCarty:

Another good pick for the Knicks who must think it is Christmas.

On Donte' Jones:

Another good prospect...

Funny thing is...

Grunfeld actually DID move McCarty and Jones for Chris Mills who eventually was part of the Spree deal, so it wasn't like they didn't get us anything.

I like Grunfeld, actually. I think it was Van Gundy who, like Nalod states, was so stuck in old school grind it out ball, never play young players, that it was hard for Grunfeld to do what he wanted.

- He got us Nellie (maybe a mistake, but again, focused on helping the offensive output of a team that was a top D team...needed more O)
- tried to trade 2 of the picks in that draft for Kobe or whoever else was a bit higher.
- got us LJ and Houston (whiffed on Childs, but he did look very good the season before)
- moved a breaking down Oak for Camby (great deal)
- turned McCarty, Jones & whoever for Mills who then along with Starks and Cummings got us Spree

I think he was a MUCH more forward thinking kind of GM, but Van Gundy was so stuck in the old ways, and perhaps the mistakes the team made earlier allowed Ewing to control the team TOO much, never getting him another real star, and Checketts with Dolan made the team so corporate that the team soon turned to crap.

That strike season remember Grunfeld got fired before the season was over by Checketts, and Van Gundy was about to be fired, but then when Ewing got hurt, Camby had to play, Spree finally got more minutes (he was coming of the bench...remember that?), as did Childs and the team's style became a running team that played fierce defense, against Van Gundy's style, which then saved his job (oh, the irony!).

That made the Knicks, btw, one of the most popular teams in the league. I have friends from Dallas, Pittsburgh, etc. back then that LOVED the '99 Knicks, especially Houston, Spree and Camby.

it was GRUNFELD who got us those guys.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-30-2009 12:08 PM]

We should stick with the 96 draft rather than going into what a player got the team in future trades because it gets messy and goes in a lot of different directions. Cases could be made that if certain talent was acquired in 96 that 99 run would have ended in a championship and possibly many more.

i really don't think any of us are in position to say it had NOTHING or EVERYTHING to do with the reality that the knicks did not move up, but did you read the statements in those articles? it seems to go completely against what you are suggesting.

the Knicks' draft strategy was altered dramatically when Wallace, projected as a top-10 pick, miraculously slipped to No. 18.

what do you take that to mean if, as even you suggest, and as several articles indicate, the knicks were TRYING to move up in the draft.

it is MORE than feasible (since we have seen this happen time and time again in drafts) that after the teams above you pick, that gms still trade the picks they make for the one they had coveted later on in a draft.

however...

as the evidence indicates...

the knicks DID NOT EXPECT WALLACE TO BE THERE AT 18...

so, perhaps after wallace was there they decided that they didn't feel as much of a need to make that kind of a move, because they had him rated in their top 10.

who knows, but it sounds like the knicks were surprised he was there, and given that he was, and then they drafted him, they decided to not go as hard for the other two players.

wallace was also a pretty tall, and while "technically" he was sort of a sf, maybe they envisioned him later being more of a pf.